A scanning challenge

Posted: 09-22-2003, 04:06 PM
I know several people on the forum are working on family pictures, some of which are very old. I've run up against a few that are really "challenging" me, and I'm hoping somebody has figured out a scanning trick that will not only cut down the amount of hand editing I have to do but also increase the quality.

A number of the old photographs I have that were taken in the early 1900s are still reasonably clear when you look at the originals, but after they've been scanned, the digital images have a lot of reflection in them. I think it's coming from the silver that was used in the processing, because the bad spots show up in the dark areas of the image - like in shadowed areas and on dark colored clothing. When looking at the originals "head on", you don't really notice it, but the reflective areas are very visible when you look at them on an angle, and they become downright grotesque once the light from the scanner gets done with them.

I've looked through Wayne Fulton's site on scanning. He covers issues of Moire and using various tools for correcting scratches, tears, etc., but I can't find anything on his site or anywhere else about how to minimize this annoying reflection. Cloning just smears everything to a blackish gray, and painting takes away any depth the original may have had. I've also fiddled with various filters, but I haven't found one that gets rid of the part I don't want without doing a lot of damage to what I want to salvage. There's got to be some technique I can use in the scanning stage that'll minimize this, doesn't there? Does anybody have any ideas? I'm open to experimenting, but I don't know what to try.
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Responses to "A scanning challenge"

Bert Bigelow
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 05:13 PM
Beth,
I'm sorry, I don't have anything to offer, but I will watch this thread with great interest. I am sure I will have the same problem when I start scanning the old prints that I have. Thanks for starting this thread!
Bert
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Chuck Snyder
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 08:12 PM
Beth, I wonder if there's some sort of anti-reflective diffusion
transparency that you can put against the photo between the photo and the
light source that would deflect or absorb the light rays away from the
sensor....? Maybe a polarizing filter of some sort... It might take away
some of the image detail, but it might be better than the 'blowouts' you're
getting now.... May be worth a google...

Chuck


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Beth Haney
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 08:30 PM
I'd thought of finding something to use as a filter, although I didn't think of a photographic filter. Do they even make them big enough so they could be used on a 4 X 6 print? Maybe this warrants another trip to the camera shop.

I did send an e-mail to Wayne Fulton this morning, explaining the problem. I don't really expect an answer, but I figured it couldn't hurt to try! Who knows - maybe I'll get lucky. I suspect there will be a growing need as people figure out some of these old pictures just don't scan well.
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Kenneth Liffmann
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 08:37 PM
Beth,
If you have a non-critical picture, perhaps you can wet it and scan it while it is wet, as an experiment. I remember that when I printed black and white pictures they always looked subdued to me in the dark room while they were in the water being rinsed. Don't know what this will do to the glass on your scanner. My thinking is that the refraction will be altered while wet.
Ken
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Juergen D
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 08:38 PM
Beth, maybe Leen needs to come in on this. There was some discussions going
on in another thread where he was talking about some spray for preservation
and/or appearance. He might know of something for an application like
this??

Juergen


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Beth Haney
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 08:52 PM
Wow, both the suggestion to work with it when wet and the thought a spray might cut the reflection are tempting. Maybe I'll go through the old photos again and see if I can find one I have two copies of to fiddle with. The ones I've been working with so far are all one of a kind, so I wouldn't want to risk any of those.

Ken, wouldn't it have to be really, really wet, though? It seems to me (who has never been in a darkroom in her life!) water only on the surface would just make the reflection worse. ???

I did try running one through the slide scanner, thinking the light source might be just enough different to cut some of the glare, but that scan wasn't enough better to be worth the effort.

What do you suppose would change - or not - if I put a sheet of non-glare glass down on the scanner bed and put the photo on top of it? Hmmm. That might be the next thing I try; it's easy, I've got a piece of glass, and it wouldn't require doing anything to the photo itself. Off I go to rummage. :)
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Jim Hess
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 09:08 PM
Since I'm not aware of what kind of a scanner you are using, it would be difficult for me to give you any valuable advice. But I will tell you that with my scanner I am able to do a "preview" scan and then I am able to adjust levels of brightness and alter color hues quite a bit before I even scan the photograph. When I have scanned some of these old photographs like you are doing, making such adjustments has, in most cases, corrected the kind of problems you are experiencing. I don't know if you have those kinds of capabilities with your scanner or not.
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Beth Haney
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 09:26 PM
Yes, Jim, I do have all of those adjustments. I guess I'm just not hitting a combination that gets rid of that stuff. The only way it goes away is to blow out everything else! The white stuff just sits there and taunts me. :) What did you find worked the best?

The non-glare glass doesn't do anything remarkable, by the way.
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Patti Anderson
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Re: A scanning challenge
Posted: 09-22-2003, 09:27 PM
One thing that helps reduce the moire for me -- in fact, it almost eliminates it entirely -- is to use the Descreen function in my scanner software. Your scanner software will be different, but you could probably do a search for "descreen" or "moire" in your help files. I can also customize the descreening by means of a slider button.

I also found it helps to make sure that the item being scanned is pressed nice and flat against the glass of the scanner. I usually lay a heavy book on top.

Patti
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