Advantages and Disadvantages

[Pandu]

Hi,

Can some help me to find out Advantages and Disadvantages of ColdFusion.

Thank in advance
Pandu

[vkunirs]

Hi pandu

search in these forums..there are lots of discussions are there.
you can find them easily.

[ronnie]

Advantages:

Easy to do the basics with.

Disadvantages:

Expensive,
Small install base
Limited career prospects
Has overwhelming competition it can never hope to rival
Uses an unusual syntax which is a bit tricky for programmers to get used to.
Is run by a compnay who monitor and censor the flow of information inside it
forums.
Has low prestige and is often thought of as a "toy" language by programmers.
Very very few applications written in it. (relative to other server
technologies)
Very few pre-written scripts available (relative to other server
technologies)
Is not a "flagship" product or top priority product of the company who owns
it.
Very buggy.
Offers nothing significant over more popular and more "on hand" app servers.
Companies reluctant to adopt it due to small talent pool and widescale
standardization on J2EE and .NET




"Pandu" <pandu@resourcedesign.co.in> wrote in message
news:d24625$795$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Hi,
>
> Can some help me to find out Advantages and Disadvantages of ColdFusion.
>
> Thank in advance
> Pandu
>
>
>

[BenForta]

Ronnie's whining aside, you'll find some of the answers you want on [url]http://www.cffaq.com/[/url].

[ronnie]

Sure, whining. Totally invalid points though, right? Just whining for the
sake of it.

Or could it be that none of these points made happen to affect you and how
you make your money? Ben, tell it from your perspective by all means, but
don't mock those of us who are not as fortunate as you and happen to be
severely affected by the total lack of demand for this server technology.

A lot of folk in here are asking for advice in the context of their careers
so "Keep it real"


"BenForta" <ben@forta.com> wrote in message
news:d2kcok$p6f$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Ronnie's whining aside, you'll find some of the answers you want on
> [url]http://www.cffaq.com/[/url].

[Fug]

Hi Pandu,

I don't think there is a 'cut-n-dry' list of pros and cons for ColdFusion,
it's all dependent on what you are hoping to accomplish. Some areas to consider
are:

1. Cost - as Ronnie indicated, ColdFusion can be expensive to purchase if you
intend to run your own server. Enterprise is the most expensive, with the
Professional version being cheaper. You can get the Developer version for free
if you just want to try it out, or set up your own development machine. If you
are intending on using a hosting provider, then the cost is pretty much on par
with any other provider offering similar features.

Also be aware of Atlantas BlueDragon, which can be a cheaper, alternative
engine for ColdFusion applications.

2. Open-Source - if this is important to you, then be aware that ColdFusion is
a commercial product and you don't get the ability to tinker with the 'engine'
like you could with, say PHP. That is not to say that you cannot produce "open"
applications in ColdFusion - you can certainly do this (do a search for Daemon
and FarCry in google for a great example using the Creative Commons licence (I
think thats what its called).

3. Coding - ColdFusion allows you to program in either a tag- or script-based
syntax - both a very easy to learn. The syntax is slightly different from other
languages (but if all languages were the same, we wouldn't have so much choice
:) - but you can pick it up very quickly.

4. Cross-platform - really only an issue if you plan on hosting a server
yourself. ColdFusion supports a wide variety of platforms (I think "anything
that runs Java will run ColdFusion"), including Windows, Unix, Linux, Macs
(with a little bit of encouragement) - or anything that runs a supported JREE
platform.

Ronnie, just out of curiosity, I was hoping you could elaborate a little more
on your previous comments:

Expensive
The Enterprise version is more expensive than the Professional version, and
the Developer version is free. What would you consider a fair price?

Small install base
In the last 6 years I have worked with government agencies and multi-national
companies around the world in deploying ColdFusion-based solutions on both
intranets and the internet - there may not be many, but there sure are plenty
of big names turning to it. Just wondering if you could point me in the
direction of stats?

Limited career prospects
I think its a matter of perspective - where do you want your career to go? I'm
quite happy with the direction of my career, and the progress I've made both in
development and architecture, and our clients seem pretty happy too. What sort
of prospects do you think it would inhibit/encourage?

Has overwhelming competition it can never hope to rival
Can you give examples? I've touched on PHP, ASP (and .NET), Java and Perl on
and off over the years, and so far Coldfusion has always provided the solution
required.

Is run by a compnay who monitor and censor the flow of information inside it
forums.
Any company/organisation that doesn't do this in this age of litigation is
just asking for trouble. Is there a specific instance that you think it was
inappropriate?

Has low prestige and is often thought of as a "toy" language by programmers.
Who doesn't like toys :) I know a pretty good mix of people in the industry,
and I've yet to meet one that looks down at Coldfusion (a few that look up to,
most look sort of side-ways :) - is there a particular group of programmers you
are referring to?

Very very few applications written in it. (relative to other server
technologies)
Very few pre-written scripts available (relative to other server technologies)
I've had no trouble finding pre-written applications, and I've had no need for
scripts as most functionality is built in. Perhaps there is a particular niche
of applications you are looking for? Let us know and we'll help you find it.

Is not a "flagship" product or top priority product of the company who owns it.
It's proven to be priority enough that regular updates and upgrades are
provided. I'm curious to know how you would compare other technologies to this?


Very buggy.
Well, nothing is 100% bug free these days - but we've had very few problems
over the years (and 9/10 problems were related to simple coding error on our
part) - are there particular bugs you are thinking of?

Offers nothing significant over more popular and more "on hand" app servers.
Perspective strikes again - what features would you consider more significant,
and which "on hand" app servers provide them?

Companies reluctant to adopt it due to small talent pool and widescale
standardization on J2EE and .NET
Just wondering were you sourced this?

Cheers

[ronnie]

> Expensive

> The Enterprise version is more expensive than the Professional version,
> and
> the Developer version is free. What would you consider a fair price?

To be honest, I perosnally think the price of CF is reasonably fair as it
is. The real issue with the cost is that it is prohibitive given the
environement the server is being sold in - that being where 'equal to' and
'better than' web dev solutions are available for free, to relatively free,
to the otehr end of the spectrum, very expensive. CF needs something about
it that significantly sets it apart from the others and draws developers to
it in numbers approaching the same as the others. Its price is just another
thing about it that makes it a hard sell in the industry.

As I explained to another poster who mentioned I was perhaps to stingy too
pay, I have paid for it, many times for many different business's, but its
gotten to be a real tough sell now. There are no jobs so no staff so no
uptake so less sales so no staff so no uptake so no sales so no courses so
staff so interest so no confidence so so so so ...the spiral continues.

> Small install base
> In the last 6 years I have worked with government agencies and
> multi-national
> companies around the world in deploying ColdFusion-based solutions on both
> intranets and the internet - there may not be many

Well, this ones easy, I will quote you directly - "there may not be many"
but qualify it further be saying "There IS NOT many" Unfortunately, the
implications of this are huge. They would be huge in a more tolerant
climate, but given the might of Microsoft, the standarisation processes and
organisations behind J2EE, and the sheer enormity of the PHP open source
movement (not to mention the huge improvements in PHP) - Lets get serious,
it doesn't take the worlds best analyst to predict the outcome for
coldfusion. Any and all benefits coldfusion has or had will soon be, or
already are, part of these other 3 giants.

> Limited career prospects
> I think its a matter of perspective - where do you want your career to go?
> I'm
> quite happy with the direction of my career, and the progress I've made
> both in
> development and architecture, and our clients seem pretty happy too. What
> sort
> of prospects do you think it would inhibit/encourage?

I don't really understand this response too well, I feel the point made here
is fairly obvious. I think "where do you want your career to go" confused me
a little in that I just assumed that "forwards" was the only answer. I guess
we are thinking a little differently on this one - my perspective is that
people want skills that will get them jobs. Learning coldfusion is not time
well spent as there are not may coldfusion jobs - it only takes minmal
research to see that coldfusion jobs are the scarcest. This is bad, no jobs
no developer attraction no sales ...yada yada yada.

> Has overwhelming competition it can never hope to rival
> Can you give examples? I've touched on PHP, ASP (and .NET), Java and Perl
> on
> and off over the years, and so far Coldfusion has always provided the
> solution
> required.

Examples of overwhelming competiton? Microsfoft with ASP and ASP.NET. Sun,
BEA,IBM, Oracle and all the other J2EE crowd. PHP and a gazillion open
source developers. It doesn't amtter if you found CF to be capable or not -
thats not the point.

> Very very few applications written in it. (relative to other server
> technologies)
> Very few pre-written scripts available (relative to other server
> technologies)
> I've had no trouble finding pre-written applications, and I've had no need
> for
> scripts as most functionality is built in. Perhaps there is a particular
> niche
> of applications you are looking for? Let us know and we'll help you find
> it.

Very very few applications written in it. (relative to other server
technologies) - its a staement, not a request for some scripts. Th epoint of
the staemnt was to back up my claims of CF's popularity and develoepr
interest. The numbers of people using coldfusion is small and getting
smaller due to the spiral I keep mentioning.

> Is run by a compnay who monitor and censor the flow of information inside
> it
> forums.
> Any company/organisation that doesn't do this in this age of litigation is
> just asking for trouble. Is there a specific instance that you think it
> was
> inappropriate?

Yes there is a specific instance, a few actually. I am not bothered to
pursue it though - thats not why I brought it up.

> Is not a "flagship" product or top priority product of the company who
> owns it.
> It's proven to be priority enough that regular updates and upgrades are
> provided. I'm curious to know how you would compare other technologies to
> this?

Not sure what you are saying here? But anyway, coldfusion is not MM's big
money earner and not very high profile. The company can't compete in this
market. JRun itself has not been ugraded to the last J2EE standard while
everone else is updating server to the next - its two specifictions out o
fdate as they have just let it die. In the cse of JRun, MM just shat all
over existing customers and just plain stopped developing. When MM fail, as
they are doing (but not without a damn good fight, mind you) with coldfusion
they will then and only then open source (or variation) it. You dont belive
that, I know, but just watch! CF NEEDS to get out there and installed on
millions and millions of machines, literally, if this does not happen it
will not succeed.

> Very buggy.
> Well, nothing is 100% bug free these days - but we've had very few
> problems
> over the years (and 9/10 problems were related to simple coding error on
> our
> part) - are there particular bugs you are thinking of?

I will give you that - (though the one that got me was the old memory leaks)

> Offers nothing significant over more popular and more "on hand" app
> servers.
> Perspective strikes again - what features would you consider more
> significant,
> and which "on hand" app servers provide them?

on hand = few, if any, barriers to entry

Good OO features - PHP, on hand, has them
Drawing API, PHP, JSP , .NET, on hand, has them
Simplicity, PHP, JSTL, RoR, on hand, have them.
'normal' syntax - most of the other, on hand, has this.

>>Perspective strikes again

Well, I guess it does. But its not really the point. The point, to me, is
simple, its all to do with install base and deeloper uptake. Right now CF is
istagnat and/or going backwards here. None of its percived advantages can
counter all of it disadvantages, Its good, but not even close to that good.
Developers want jobs, full stop.

> Companies reluctant to adopt it due to small talent pool and widescale
> standardization on J2EE and .NET
> Just wondering were you sourced this?

seekit.com.au
TIOBE index
Netcraft
web searches
persoanl experience & common sense
my associations with recruting agencies
talking to all sorts of different developers
watching Macromedia and occasionally getting soem goss from the inside
quite a few other methods I guess.
A few poster in this foum who told me how to do all this.



"Fug" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:d2qkli$hgb$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Hi Pandu,
>
> I don't think there is a 'cut-n-dry' list of pros and cons for ColdFusion,
> it's all dependent on what you are hoping to accomplish. Some areas to
> consider
> are:
>
> 1. Cost - as Ronnie indicated, ColdFusion can be expensive to purchase if
> you
> intend to run your own server. Enterprise is the most expensive, with the
> Professional version being cheaper. You can get the Developer version for
> free
> if you just want to try it out, or set up your own development machine. If
> you
> are intending on using a hosting provider, then the cost is pretty much on
> par
> with any other provider offering similar features.
>
> Also be aware of Atlantas BlueDragon, which can be a cheaper, alternative
> engine for ColdFusion applications.
>
> 2. Open-Source - if this is important to you, then be aware that
> ColdFusion is
> a commercial product and you don't get the ability to tinker with the
> 'engine'
> like you could with, say PHP. That is not to say that you cannot produce
> "open"
> applications in ColdFusion - you can certainly do this (do a search for
> Daemon
> and FarCry in google for a great example using the Creative Commons
> licence (I
> think thats what its called).
>
> 3. Coding - ColdFusion allows you to program in either a tag- or
> script-based
> syntax - both a very easy to learn. The syntax is slightly different from
> other
> languages (but if all languages were the same, we wouldn't have so much
> choice
> :) - but you can pick it up very quickly.
>
> 4. Cross-platform - really only an issue if you plan on hosting a server
> yourself. ColdFusion supports a wide variety of platforms (I think
> "anything
> that runs Java will run ColdFusion"), including Windows, Unix, Linux, Macs
> (with a little bit of encouragement) - or anything that runs a supported
> JREE
> platform.
>
> Ronnie, just out of curiosity, I was hoping you could elaborate a little
> more
> on your previous comments:
>
> Expensive
> The Enterprise version is more expensive than the Professional version,
> and
> the Developer version is free. What would you consider a fair price?
>
> Small install base
> In the last 6 years I have worked with government agencies and
> multi-national
> companies around the world in deploying ColdFusion-based solutions on both
> intranets and the internet - there may not be many, but there sure are
> plenty
> of big names turning to it. Just wondering if you could point me in the
> direction of stats?
>
> Limited career prospects
> I think its a matter of perspective - where do you want your career to go?
> I'm
> quite happy with the direction of my career, and the progress I've made
> both in
> development and architecture, and our clients seem pretty happy too. What
> sort
> of prospects do you think it would inhibit/encourage?
>
> Has overwhelming competition it can never hope to rival
> Can you give examples? I've touched on PHP, ASP (and .NET), Java and Perl
> on
> and off over the years, and so far Coldfusion has always provided the
> solution
> required.
>
> Is run by a compnay who monitor and censor the flow of information inside
> it
> forums.
> Any company/organisation that doesn't do this in this age of litigation is
> just asking for trouble. Is there a specific instance that you think it
> was
> inappropriate?
>
> Has low prestige and is often thought of as a "toy" language by
> programmers.
> Who doesn't like toys :) I know a pretty good mix of people in the
> industry,
> and I've yet to meet one that looks down at Coldfusion (a few that look up
> to,
> most look sort of side-ways :) - is there a particular group of
> programmers you
> are referring to?
>
> Very very few applications written in it. (relative to other server
> technologies)
> Very few pre-written scripts available (relative to other server
> technologies)
> I've had no trouble finding pre-written applications, and I've had no need
> for
> scripts as most functionality is built in. Perhaps there is a particular
> niche
> of applications you are looking for? Let us know and we'll help you find
> it.
>
> Is not a "flagship" product or top priority product of the company who
> owns it.
> It's proven to be priority enough that regular updates and upgrades are
> provided. I'm curious to know how you would compare other technologies to
> this?
>
>
> Very buggy.
> Well, nothing is 100% bug free these days - but we've had very few
> problems
> over the years (and 9/10 problems were related to simple coding error on
> our
> part) - are there particular bugs you are thinking of?
>
> Offers nothing significant over more popular and more "on hand" app
> servers.
> Perspective strikes again - what features would you consider more
> significant,
> and which "on hand" app servers provide them?
>
> Companies reluctant to adopt it due to small talent pool and widescale
> standardization on J2EE and .NET
> Just wondering were you sourced this?
>
> Cheers
>

[Fug]

Thanks for the reply, Ronnie. Always good to hear other developers views and
experiences (keeps everyone on their toes :) )

Pandu, I hope some of the information here is of help to you. Feel free to
post more specific questions if you still need some help.

Cheers