Advice on how to proceed

[Loren Smith]

I have looked at many tutorial sites, searched these forums, and done
Google searches trying to find advice on how to produce images like
those found at

<http://www.digitaljuice.com/juicedrops/juicedrops_gallery.asp?layers=8&page=7&example_id= 2221&show_large=yes>

and

<http://www.absolutearts.com/cgi-bin/portfolio/art/your-art.cgi?login=kuhli&title=Spiritual_Kinship-1042630005t.jpg>

In the case of the second link, the artist says that the pictures are
"Mathematical art. Drawn by algorithmus [sic], colored and composed
with Photoshop."

I know that the answer is not as simple as "Use this filter" or "Use
this plug-in." Making these images was obviously a multi-staged
project. Primarily, I am interested in learning how to create complex
objects that are partially transparent and overlap as in the images
from the Digital Juice website.

Loren

[Robert Blackwell™]

I don't know which of "the pictures" she is talkin about, but just about all of the digital juice ones were created using a 3d program and various images were used placed in photoshop to create a composite image.

[Thee_DarkOverLord]

Mathematical art. Drawn by algorithmus




she is just trying to be clever, and it aint working on me, every peice of art work that comes of your PC is mathematical art. She is just using 3-d and or fractual designers, but Mathematical art Drawn by algorithmus makes it sound more than it realy is.

In my opinion anyway, thats how i see it.

[Burton Ogden]

Loren,

Primarily, I am interested in learning how to create complex objects that
are partially transparent and overlap as in the images from the Digital
Juice website.




The artwork on the Digital Juice website was probably all done in Photoshop. Photoshop's toolset is certainly capable of such art. Many Photoshop techniques are involved and whole books have been devoted to artwork in Photoshop. You can start with geometrically shaped selections and gradients. You can build on the art by adding layers. Layers allow you to control transparency and you can even have transparency gradients. Like I said, Photoshop books have been devoted to this subject.

The artwork on the Absolute Art site was probably composited in Photoshop but other programs were probably used to help create the intricate designs. Karin Kuhlmann is probably German, but with reference to her statement:

1. The graphic work with own photos Digitally edited photo-collages of
flowers and landscapes, frequently completed with paintings, expressing
the connection between the perceptible picture and imagination. Most of
them have been awarded in the annually hold Corel World Design Contest.






2. The work with 3D-programs 3D-illustrations and landscapes in a surrealistic
manner also digitally edited and supplemented with paintings.






3. Experimental and abstract works Since beginning to use the computer
as a personal artistic tool in 1994 I tended more and more towards abstraction.
Especially the game with geometric forms and the research into the visual
and emotional possibilities of several graphic methods are of great interest
for me. i.g. to work with fractals which are always the visualized solution
of a complex mathematical problem - but viewed in isolation of mathematical
questions and contents they are graphic patterns as a snapshot of the
infinity. Drawing by algorithmus depends widely on coincidence. However
generating and selecting of dynamic forms, their editing and coloring,
is based on what psychologists may call "subjective perception". Mathematical
art is - although it seems to be a contradiction in terms - a very intuitive
and individual kind of work.





In the above I see the phrase "Drawing by algorithmus" as a simple typographical error, with "Drawing by algorithms" as the intended phrase.

I don't agree with Thee_DarkOverLord's interpretation that "she is just trying to be clever." Hopefully that "she" did not refer to you. As an artist trying to sell her work Karin Kuhlmann is understandably trying to make an impression, so there might be a little component of "hype" involved but, to me, that is understandable.

Although, as I said, I think you can do everything on the Digital Juice site with just Photoshop, you would need some sort of specialized software to generate the intricate stuff displayed at Absolute Arts. There are many fractal-based freeware and shareware programs available and some commercial ones as well. One commercial program that comes to mind is XenoDream from XenoDream Software, LLC. XenoDream makes it relatively easy to achieve 2D and 3D images that would be extremely difficult to create "from scratch" in Photoshop.

The XenoDream homepage has music but you can click on any of its links to stop the music. I recommend you explore the XenoDream website, including the image galleries and links to artists who participated in its development. Considering what it can do, XenoDream is reasonably priced (in my opinion) and it is on my short list of upcoming software purchases.

<http://xenodream.com/index.html>

-- Burton -- (not associated with XenoDream)

[Thee_DarkOverLord]

"hype"




same thing.

[Burton Ogden]

Not in my dictionary.

[Thee_DarkOverLord]

Still biging it up, and thats what I ment. But Burton, me thinks I could have been a little hasty, but hey ho.

[Cheesefood]

Hype = Marketing. What she's doing is pure and simple Marketing to discourage people from copying or imitating her work.

I saw it. Yes, it's nice but I don't know that I would hang it on my wall. I'm more of an impressionist fan versus abstract.

So, about the algorithms. Isn't vector art considered algorithms? So she took some shapes, made some paths, then applied the techniques you mentioned and some filters to produce her art. Yes, it sounds complicated, but at $200 a pop, you'd hope that the work isn't something that a 13 year old could do.

[Burton Ogden]

Cheese,

So, about the algorithms. Isn't vector art considered algorithms?




Not to put too fine a point on it (well maybe I am putting too fine a point on it), vector art is produced in part by algorithms. Vector art has a mathematical description, while Bitmap art is just pixels. But an artist is involved too, in either case.

But my point is that even Photoshop involves algorithms in its filters and such, so algorithms aren't exclusive to vector art.

TheeDarkOverLord is right in saying that every piece of artwork that comes out of your computer involves mathematics and algorithms. But that should not discredit the artist who creates art with a computer.

-- Burton --

[JasonSmith]

I would bet good money that 99% of that digital juice page was modeled/rendered in a 3-D app, then composited in photoshop with a little bit of PS pizzaz.

[d. wade thompson]

"but at $200 a pop, you'd hope that the work isn't something that a 13 year old could do."

i've seen paint spattered on canvas that has sold for thousands, and i'm sure a 3 year old with finger painting experience could create the same thing. art is art, and it is very subjective. if somebody likes her art, and are willing to pay $200 for it, i say good for her.

find a lot of it interesting. i'm not willing to pay for it, but i am interested in learning how some of those ideas were created.

just my observations
Wade

[JohnSWhite]

I'm 13 give or take forty, and I couldn't do it - (ask that much, I mean)!
John

[Loren Smith]

Thank you everyone for your insight and opinions. I now have a better idea of where to spend my time and studies.

I also agree that a good deal of the terminology used at the Absolute Art site is used to market the artist's work and that is okay with me. A little hype never hurt anybody.

(insert witty closing remark here)

[Thee_DarkOverLord]

But that should not discredit the artist who creates art with a computer.




No I wanst Cheese, thank you for pointing that out, well at least i think you was. I wouldnt do that, I was crap at design at school because my teacher put me down and told me I was, I dont want to have any part of that kind thing no matter how small it may be.

Hype never hurt any one.




not to sure about that.

As Pucblic enemy said. "Dont beleive the hype, yeahhhhaa, silly rabbit"

[ID. Awe]

What you call hype is the underlying explanation of the basis of her artistry. Successful artists do this all the time. Trust me, her description is not the worst that I have read or have explained to me.

English is a second language to any artist, even with a doctoral thesis.

[Burton Ogden]

English is a second language to any artist...

I hadn't thought of it that way, but there is subtle truth in that.