AI Files Linked into ID 2.0 – Drop Shadows – Explanation Needed please

[Dave_Cooperstein@adobeforums.com]

Something occurred today that I need an explanation for:

I am using InDesign 2.0.2 to compile a document that is full of Illustrator files linked into the booklet.

I have 8 .ai files. All 8 are linked to separate pages in my InDesign doc. All the .ai files and the InDesign booklet are using the same CMYK color space, and the Illustrator files are made up of Pantone colors (which correctly import into InDesign when I “place” the .ai files on the pages).

When I print the pages from InDesign, 5 of the files come out beautifully…Pantone colors and all. The problem is with the other 3 files…the colors shift massively, and the appearance isn’t even close.

I’ve check all the print settings in InDesign…CMYK color profiles are coordinated, the Transparency Flattener is set to “High”, etc...

What I noticed is that the 3 files with which the color shift occurs do NOT contain drop shadows. The other 5 (which print color correctly from InDesign) DO have drop shadows that were created inside of Illustrator.

As soon as I open the Illustrator files and “Create Dropshadow”s on one of the objects in the file, then update the link in InDesign, the colors now print CORRECTLY through InDesign! If I delete the drop shadows, update the link in InDesign, and print it again, the colors massively shift away from the Pantone colors again.

My question is…what is it about dropshadows in Illustrator that would allow InDesign to print the colors correctly? Is there a setting in InDesign when I place the .ai files that I am not seeing? Is there something going on with transparency here?

Even though I solved my immediate problem, I am simply looking for an explanation. Hope someone out there has some ideas!

Let me know.
Dave.

[Bob_Levine]

Something is going on with tranparency.

What printer are you using? What color space is it set to output to? Are
the AI files all saved as CMYK? Is the transparency flattener set to CMYK?

FWIW, here's my thought. If you're using a non-postscript printer, then
you're actually outputting RGB, not CMYK. Because the AI files with drop
shadow need to be flattened, the colors are being converted more than once.

If you had Acrobat 6 professional or ID CS, I'd suggest checking the
separations preview.

One last question? Is this document going to press? If not, get rid of
the Pantone colors and use the colors (RBG or CMYK) appropriate for the
final output device.

Bob

[Dave_Cooperstein@adobeforums.com]

Bob,

I'm printing to a Xerox 7700. It DOES print post-script. It should be set up to print the same CMYK color space as the InDesign and Illustrator files.

Yes, all the AI files are CMYK, and the transparency flattener in InDesign is set to CMYK.

The InDesign document is NOT going to press, but the individual AI files ARE going to be sent to a fabricator to output full-scale graphics. We need to specify pantone colors to make sure that they know exactly what colors to aim for (and what our design intent is).

If I was using ID-CS, what would the seperations preview do for me?

One last thing I forgot to mention. When I place the AI files into ID, the files WITH dropshadows come in semi-faded (the image and colors are faded, almost looking transparent). The files WITHOUT drop shadows come in solid (the image is opaque and the colors are solid fields). So my guess is that it DOES have something to do with transparency. I guess I just don't understand why creating drop shadows in Illustrator would force InDesign to use a transparency setting?

Could this have anything to do with "Knockout Groups"? To be honest, I still don't understand what Knockout Groups do...but I noticed that when I creat drop shadows in Illustrator, they use Knockout Groups.

Thanks for helping me shed some more light on this whole thing!

Dave.

[Bob_Levine]

The separations preview would let you see if the colors are separating
okay. But I sense the real problem here is the conversion of spots to
process with transparency and without.

But I'll repeat what I said earlier. The use of Pantone colors should be
restricted to press. The conversion to CMYK can result in some serious
color shifts.

If you export a page as PDF with Acrobat 5 compatibility with CMYK as
the color space, and e-mail it to me, I'll take a look here to see if
the colors are okay.

Bob (rjlevine<AT>verizon<dot>net)

[Guy_Smiley@adobeforums.com]

Bob_Levine wrote in
news:779830875AFCCC69003001F24B7DEECE@in.webx.la2e afNXanI:

> But I'll repeat what I said earlier. The use of Pantone colors
> should be restricted to press. The conversion to CMYK can result
> in some serious color shifts.

Why are you assuming that the OP is using spot colors? I suspect what
he means is that he is using the Pantone process library.

[Bob_Levine]

I've been corresponding with him via e-mail. He's going to send me the
files to look at.

Bob

[Guy_Smiley@adobeforums.com]

Bob_Levine wrote in
news:C7F0A1D1B553164010B9446CDCBBF98B@in.webx.la2e afNXanI:

> I've been corresponding with him via e-mail. He's going to send me
> the files to look at.

Cool. Let us know what you find.

[Richard_Conricus@adobeforums.com]

InDesign ink manager problems

Ink Manager is giving Pantone colors untouchable numbers and the alias function does not work. I've experienced the same imported Illustrator .eps pantone file not showing up in some document and in others, it does show up. Why doesn't InDesign automatically put all pantone colors with the same number on one film? As of now it means sometimes more than one pantone film with the same number but processed separately because id like pantone287 and Pantone 287 CVC are different, even if given correct alias. Anyone have a clue what to do?