Airport + SMC WAP 'vanishing network' problem

[Adam Ierymenko]

I am wondering if anyone has ever seen this problem. I have a
newly acquired titanium powerbook. I brought it home, where I
have an 802.11b wireless network run by a SMC Barricade access
point. The AP works great and I have used it from both Windows
and Linux machines for many months with no problems.

I turned on the Powerbook and went up to the Airport icon on the
top bar. I saw my wireless network, clicked on it, entered my
WEP key, and voila... I'm online!

I upgraded OSX and all the other stuff (Airport software to 3.1.1,
security updates, etc.) to all their latest versions using software
update and everything continued to work. Did some configuration
and installation of software and in the process rebooted a few
times, and still everything worked.

Then, as I was browsing the web, wham... wireless network vanishes.
I go over to a Linux box I have on wireless and wireless is fine.
I try with my older Windows XP laptop... wireless is fine. I try
disabling and re-enabling Airport.. no go. I try rebooting the
mac.. no go. The airport card no longer sees the network.

I try reconfiguring the WAP, turning off encryption, changing
channels, turning off every other machine but the powerbook, etc.
No luck. Just when I'm beginning to wonder if the mac's 802.11b
card died, the network returns. I rejoin it, and everything is
fine again.

Basically, this story repeats itself. From time to time, the
airport will lose the ability to see my wireless network. I
will fiddle with things including rebooting the access point,
the mac, turning off other machines, and waving a dead chicken
in the air and sometimes it will come back. Sometimes it stays
screwed up for about 12 to 24 hours and then will suddenly come
back for no reason. Very strange.

The only thing I can think of is interference, but this makes
no sense as the Linux and Windows machines have flawless wireless
performance and very high signal strength. I do not at the
moment live in the city, and I don't have a spread spectrum
phone or extra-thick walls or anything else that would screw
things up. I can literally walk over to the AP with the mac
and it doesn't help. There are no competing APs around. I
don't think it's a signal issue.

I'm also pretty sure it's not the access point, as I'm using it
from other machines just fine (including to post this). I have
tried turning off all other computers to eliminate any weird
interference from them with no luck. I have also tried fiddling
with every setting the AP has including: long/short preamble,
channel, base rate, rate (locked or auto), SSID broadcast,
WEP (tried 40, 128, and no wep), and everything else.

Basically the airport just decides not to see my network for a
while and then it comes back. This persists through sleep/wake
and reboot. Very strange.

I am stuck. Has anyone ever seen this before?

[Bob Harris]

In article <pan.2003.08.19.01.31.38.215463@N0SP4Mclearlight.c om>,
Adam Ierymenko <api@N0SP4Mclearlight.com> wrote:

> I am wondering if anyone has ever seen this problem. I have a
> newly acquired titanium powerbook. I brought it home, where I
> have an 802.11b wireless network run by a SMC Barricade access
> point. The AP works great and I have used it from both Windows
> and Linux machines for many months with no problems.
>
> I turned on the Powerbook and went up to the Airport icon on the
> top bar. I saw my wireless network, clicked on it, entered my
> WEP key, and voila... I'm online!
>
> I upgraded OSX and all the other stuff (Airport software to 3.1.1,
> security updates, etc.) to all their latest versions using software
> update and everything continued to work. Did some configuration
> and installation of software and in the process rebooted a few
> times, and still everything worked.
>
> Then, as I was browsing the web, wham... wireless network vanishes.
> I go over to a Linux box I have on wireless and wireless is fine.
> I try with my older Windows XP laptop... wireless is fine. I try
> disabling and re-enabling Airport.. no go. I try rebooting the
> mac.. no go. The airport card no longer sees the network.
>
> I try reconfiguring the WAP, turning off encryption, changing
> channels, turning off every other machine but the powerbook, etc.
> No luck. Just when I'm beginning to wonder if the mac's 802.11b
> card died, the network returns. I rejoin it, and everything is
> fine again.
>
> Basically, this story repeats itself. From time to time, the
> airport will lose the ability to see my wireless network. I
> will fiddle with things including rebooting the access point,
> the mac, turning off other machines, and waving a dead chicken
> in the air and sometimes it will come back. Sometimes it stays
> screwed up for about 12 to 24 hours and then will suddenly come
> back for no reason. Very strange.
>
> The only thing I can think of is interference, but this makes
> no sense as the Linux and Windows machines have flawless wireless
> performance and very high signal strength. I do not at the
> moment live in the city, and I don't have a spread spectrum
> phone or extra-thick walls or anything else that would screw
> things up. I can literally walk over to the AP with the mac
> and it doesn't help. There are no competing APs around. I
> don't think it's a signal issue.
>
> I'm also pretty sure it's not the access point, as I'm using it
> from other machines just fine (including to post this). I have
> tried turning off all other computers to eliminate any weird
> interference from them with no luck. I have also tried fiddling
> with every setting the AP has including: long/short preamble,
> channel, base rate, rate (locked or auto), SSID broadcast,
> WEP (tried 40, 128, and no wep), and everything else.
>
> Basically the airport just decides not to see my network for a
> while and then it comes back. This persists through sleep/wake
> and reboot. Very strange.
>
> I am stuck. Has anyone ever seen this before?
>

I have an SMC wireless 802.11b, and what I notice from time to time is
that I will loose the ability to communicate, but if I turn off Airport
and turn it back on, I'm back -or- if I start up a terminal session, and
start a 30 second ping to the router, then I seem to stay alive.

I also have an original Airport Base Station (graphite) and it does not
exhibit this problem. Only when I'm in the part of the house that is
serviced by the SMC Baricade.

So why not fire up a terminal session (Applications -> Utilities ->
Terminal.app). Then issue a ping command to the SMC router address
(This should be the same address that you have to point your browser at
in order to configure your SMC).

/sbin/ping -i 30 192.168.0.1

Or something similar to the above.

My theory is that as long as there is regular traffic between my laptop
and the SMC, whatever would have timed out, gets kept alive. This is
only a theory.

Maybe there is a real solution, I just don't know what it is at the
moment :-)

Bob Harris

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
Does Barricade have latest firmware?
Tony

Bob Harris wrote:

> In article <pan.2003.08.19.01.31.38.215463@N0SP4Mclearlight.c om>,
> Adam Ierymenko <api@N0SP4Mclearlight.com> wrote:
>
>

>>I am wondering if anyone has ever seen this problem. I have a
>>newly acquired titanium powerbook. I brought it home, where I
>>have an 802.11b wireless network run by a SMC Barricade access
>>point. The AP works great and I have used it from both Windows
>>and Linux machines for many months with no problems.
>>
>>I turned on the Powerbook and went up to the Airport icon on the
>>top bar. I saw my wireless network, clicked on it, entered my
>>WEP key, and voila... I'm online!
>>
>>I upgraded OSX and all the other stuff (Airport software to 3.1.1,
>>security updates, etc.) to all their latest versions using software
>>update and everything continued to work. Did some configuration
>>and installation of software and in the process rebooted a few
>>times, and still everything worked.
>>
>>Then, as I was browsing the web, wham... wireless network vanishes.
>>I go over to a Linux box I have on wireless and wireless is fine.
>>I try with my older Windows XP laptop... wireless is fine. I try
>>disabling and re-enabling Airport.. no go. I try rebooting the
>>mac.. no go. The airport card no longer sees the network.
>>
>>I try reconfiguring the WAP, turning off encryption, changing
>>channels, turning off every other machine but the powerbook, etc.
>>No luck. Just when I'm beginning to wonder if the mac's 802.11b
>>card died, the network returns. I rejoin it, and everything is
>>fine again.
>>
>>Basically, this story repeats itself. From time to time, the
>>airport will lose the ability to see my wireless network. I
>>will fiddle with things including rebooting the access point,
>>the mac, turning off other machines, and waving a dead chicken
>>in the air and sometimes it will come back. Sometimes it stays
>>screwed up for about 12 to 24 hours and then will suddenly come
>>back for no reason. Very strange.
>>
>>The only thing I can think of is interference, but this makes
>>no sense as the Linux and Windows machines have flawless wireless
>>performance and very high signal strength. I do not at the
>>moment live in the city, and I don't have a spread spectrum
>>phone or extra-thick walls or anything else that would screw
>>things up. I can literally walk over to the AP with the mac
>>and it doesn't help. There are no competing APs around. I
>>don't think it's a signal issue.
>>
>>I'm also pretty sure it's not the access point, as I'm using it
>>from other machines just fine (including to post this). I have
>>tried turning off all other computers to eliminate any weird
>>interference from them with no luck. I have also tried fiddling
>>with every setting the AP has including: long/short preamble,
>>channel, base rate, rate (locked or auto), SSID broadcast,
>>WEP (tried 40, 128, and no wep), and everything else.
>>
>>Basically the airport just decides not to see my network for a
>>while and then it comes back. This persists through sleep/wake
>>and reboot. Very strange.
>>
>>I am stuck. Has anyone ever seen this before?
>>

>
>
> I have an SMC wireless 802.11b, and what I notice from time to time is
> that I will loose the ability to communicate, but if I turn off Airport
> and turn it back on, I'm back -or- if I start up a terminal session, and
> start a 30 second ping to the router, then I seem to stay alive.
>
> I also have an original Airport Base Station (graphite) and it does not
> exhibit this problem. Only when I'm in the part of the house that is
> serviced by the SMC Baricade.
>
> So why not fire up a terminal session (Applications -> Utilities ->
> Terminal.app). Then issue a ping command to the SMC router address
> (This should be the same address that you have to point your browser at
> in order to configure your SMC).
>
> /sbin/ping -i 30 192.168.0.1
>
> Or something similar to the above.
>
> My theory is that as long as there is regular traffic between my laptop
> and the SMC, whatever would have timed out, gets kept alive. This is
> only a theory.
>
> Maybe there is a real solution, I just don't know what it is at the
> moment :-)
>
> Bob Harris

[Adam Ierymenko]

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 05:09:13 +0000, Tony Hwang wrote:

> Hi,
> Does Barricade have latest firmware?
> Tony

Yup. I upgraded it as part of my attempt to figure out what
was wrong.

[Kevin Stevens]

In article <pan.2003.08.19.01.31.38.215463@N0SP4Mclearlight.c om>,
Adam Ierymenko <api@N0SP4Mclearlight.com> wrote:

> I am wondering if anyone has ever seen this problem. I have a
> newly acquired titanium powerbook. I brought it home, where I
> have an 802.11b wireless network run by a SMC Barricade access
> point. The AP works great and I have used it from both Windows
> and Linux machines for many months with no problems.
>
> I turned on the Powerbook and went up to the Airport icon on the
> top bar. I saw my wireless network, clicked on it, entered my
> WEP key, and voila... I'm online!
>
> I upgraded OSX and all the other stuff (Airport software to 3.1.1,
> security updates, etc.) to all their latest versions using software
> update and everything continued to work. Did some configuration
> and installation of software and in the process rebooted a few
> times, and still everything worked.
>
> Then, as I was browsing the web, wham... wireless network vanishes.
> I go over to a Linux box I have on wireless and wireless is fine.
> I try with my older Windows XP laptop... wireless is fine. I try
> disabling and re-enabling Airport.. no go. I try rebooting the
> mac.. no go. The airport card no longer sees the network.
>
> I try reconfiguring the WAP, turning off encryption, changing
> channels, turning off every other machine but the powerbook, etc.
> No luck. Just when I'm beginning to wonder if the mac's 802.11b
> card died, the network returns. I rejoin it, and everything is
> fine again.
>
> Basically, this story repeats itself. From time to time, the
> airport will lose the ability to see my wireless network. I
> will fiddle with things including rebooting the access point,
> the mac, turning off other machines, and waving a dead chicken
> in the air and sometimes it will come back. Sometimes it stays
> screwed up for about 12 to 24 hours and then will suddenly come
> back for no reason. Very strange.

Yes! I've been seeing this with my PB17 using Airport Extreme and
connecting to a Linksys WRT54G router/WAP. Same symptoms. If I walk
over to the AP, plug in hardwared, access the admin utility and change
the channel, it usually comes back. This isn't interference, if I then
immediately change back to the original channel it still works.

This started a couple of Airport software revs ago. I think something's
broken in the interface negotiation, but I have no idea what. Thanks
for the confirmation, it's actually encouraging to see similar symptoms
between an Airport/SMC combination and my Airport Extreme/Linksys -
points to a common factor elsewhere.

KeS

[Kwan Yeoh]

Adam Ierymenko <api@N0SP4Mclearlight.com> wrote:

> [...]
> Then, as I was browsing the web, wham... wireless network vanishes.
> I go over to a Linux box I have on wireless and wireless is fine.
> I try with my older Windows XP laptop... wireless is fine. I try
> disabling and re-enabling Airport.. no go. I try rebooting the
> mac.. no go. The airport card no longer sees the network.
> [...]

I bought an Airpot Extreme Base Station & some cards to go with an iBook
(Dual USB) & PowerBook 12". A similar thing happened today. After
working fine, bang, suddenly, both machines were unable to see the base
station. Went on a little trouble-shooting spree. Nothing seemed to
work, including hard resets of the base station. In the end, hard-wiring
the iBook to the base station to change its channel to channel 1 &
changing it to .11b only (rather than .11b/g) seemed to work. I've not
changed the settings back to .11b/g & hope for the best.


--
Please remove SpamMeNot to reply. I apologise for the necessary use
of this anti-spammation method.

[Matthew Russotto]

In article <pan.2003.08.19.03.06.21.750245@N0SP4Mclearlight.c om>,
Adam Ierymenko <api@N0SP4Mclearlight.com> wrote:

>The problem isn't that it loses the ability to communicate, but
>that it loses the ability to *associate* (or even see the wireless
>network!). Thanks anyway though. :)

Any chance you're physically blocking the antennas with your hands?
--
Matthew T. Russotto [email]mrussotto@speakeasy.net[/email]
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of
a modicum of security is a very expensive vice.

[cr]

same problem here with a linksys wrt54g. every other day or so the
wireless side of the network disappears until you open up the admin
utility and change the channel. it would seem to be broadcom's
problem, as apple uses the same radio. actually the AP worked fine
until plugging in 2 computers to the wired ports. maybe it has to do
with overheating? previously those 2 computers were plugged into a a
seperate switch along with the AP. but since this required a linux
machine doing NAT, and the linksys's 'static routing' feature was so
broken it required the wireless clients to be going thru 2 layers of
NAT instead, i wanted to simplify the setup - only to introduce this
'wireless network randomly dies every 36 hours or so until you change
the channel' issue. which is even more annoying.

[Felipe]

I'm having the same/similar problem. I lose access when I put the machine to
sleep and the only thing which works to regain connectivity (immediately) is
to unseat and replace the card. Otherwise I sit and wait an uncertain
amount of time until I see the network.

I have started to keep an eye on the consol and I think that the automount
command is happening near the time of reconnection. It makes a certain
sense. I will look into it, but I you or anyone finds a solution please post
it.






On 8/18/03 6:31 PM, in article
[email]pan.2003.08.19.01.31.38.215463@N0SP4Mclearlight.co m[/email], "Adam Ierymenko"
<api@N0SP4Mclearlight.com> wrote:

> I am wondering if anyone has ever seen this problem. I have a
> newly acquired titanium powerbook. I brought it home, where I
> have an 802.11b wireless network run by a SMC Barricade access
> point. The AP works great and I have used it from both Windows
> and Linux machines for many months with no problems.
>
> I turned on the Powerbook and went up to the Airport icon on the
> top bar. I saw my wireless network, clicked on it, entered my
> WEP key, and voila... I'm online!

<snip>

> I am stuck. Has anyone ever seen this before?
>