align + group of objects

[l.lankman@adobeforums.com]

Hi,
In my AI-document I have a group of objects.

Question:
Why do I first have to ungroup the objects before I can align them?
Or is ungroup not necessary and am I unknowing?
Thanks in advance for an answer.

[BobHill@adobeforums.com]

You don't. SHIFT Click or marquee select the entire group, then just click (plain) the object you've already selected that you wish the rest to align to and click the align option from the Align palette (SHIFT F7). When you do the last click that does NOT ungroup what you have previously selected because you are clicking within the group's bounding box.

Bob

[l.lankman@adobeforums.com]

I'm sorry Bob. It doesn't work.
What's going wrong here?

My appl. is WinXP and AICS

[BobHill@adobeforums.com]

Here are the steps:

1) Hold down SHIFT KEY and with the Selection tool selected (black arrow) individually click each object you'd like to align, including the object you'd like them to align to. No order is required in your Shift Click selection. When you have everything selected, release the SHIFT KEY and click the one object you'd like all the others to align to. Now with your Align Palette open (SHIFT F7) choose how you'd like them to align and Voila, it'll happen and they will align to that selected object in that manner. While they are all still selected you can even now use another alignment option if you wish. Give that a try.

Bob

[l.lankman@adobeforums.com]

Hi Bob,
I'm sorry, it doesn't work.

When the objects are ungroupped I can align the objects indeed. But when I first made a group of the objects, it is not possible to align the objects. I've tried so many keys and shortcuts.
Another suggestion?

[Poul_Solbjerg_Holst@adobeforums.com]

If you want your grouped objects individualy aligned to another object,
you must ungroup them first, otherwise the entire group will align to
the other object as they are grouped.

Poul Solbjerg

[BobHill@adobeforums.com]

How are you now aligning the objects if they are not grouped? What are you aligning them with and are you using the Align Palette (SHIFT F7)? What version of Illustrator are you using?

Bob

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

L.,

Why do I first have to ungroup the objects before I can align them?




Because one of the points of grouping objects is to make them behave as a single object. You'll notice, for example, that when you group objects that are on separate layers, they will end up on a single layer. This is because it makes little sense for an object to exist across layers.

And to use Poul's example, if you want to align a group to another object but do not want the alignment within the group disturbed, how would you do that with the alignment tools if, in fact, they ignored grouping?

=-= Harron =-=

[B. Philippus]

The only problem I see with ungrouping, is that when a group is really complex it may be hard to retrieve all objects within the group after ungrouping and aligning. The way to "group" objects without actually grouping them in the traditional sense, is to give the objects a "note" in the attributes palette and selecting them all at once, like a group, using an action. That way, you can have your "pseudo-group" scattered all over teh creation, even on different layers, and still select all in one fell swoop.

1. Select the group, ungroup but leave selected;
2. In the attributes palette, put a number "1" or letter "Q" or any phrase you like, in the box at the bottom;
3. Click the flyout on the actions palette, and start recording a new action;
4. Click the flyout again, and pick the option "Select Object"; Enter the phrase you just noted for the "group";
5. End the recording, now you have an action that will select all objects with said note at once. You can come up with your own customized shortcut to run the action, and create several generic Selection type actions (using note 1,2,3 etc.).

Now, you can align all you like, because the group isn't really a group anymore, and still retrieve all elements that were once part of the group.

Bert

[James_E._Talmage@adobeforums.com]

It is strange, you know, that...

AI does not let you DirectSelect objects in a Group and have them obey the Align Palette.

Just as it's strange that...

AI does not let you perform Align Palette operations on DirectSelected points.

Especially given that...

AI DOES let you use Path>Average on DirectSelected points within a Group.

And why, forthuhlovuhpete, do they call it Path>Average, when in fact it averages the positons of points?

;-)

JET

[BobHill@adobeforums.com]

You do NOT have to Officially GROUP objects to align. By grouping, if you multi-select either with SHIFT key click or MARQUEE you truly aren't officially creating a GROUP. It's only a Group while selected as such. This is often confused (and I add to it by calling it a group of objects). It's actually multi-selected objects, not a group.

Bob

[James_E._Talmage@adobeforums.com]

Bob, I do believe you are missing the point of this thread. As I read it, I.Lankman is talking about the need to UNgroup a group before alignments can be performed upon and between its constituent objects. (Other drawing programs let you sub-select objects within a Group and perform alignments upon them without the necessity to Ungroup them first).

JET

[B. Philippus]

I suppose another way around the grouping thing, is to take the whole group and put it on a separate layer, and maybe calling it "group".

Bert

[l.lankman@adobeforums.com]

Hi again,
Yes JET. That's exactly what I mean/meant. But I understand now that it is impossible to align within a group of objects.
It's a pitty.
Thanks to all.

[Dan_Olech@adobeforums.com]

When ungrouping a complicated group for whatever reason, I usually ungroup then while the parts of the groups are still selected, save the selection under a specific, identifiable name. Then I perform whatever actions and to regroup, just recall the saved selection. I've found a few operations that have problems with groups.