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Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup - Photography

"Caeruleo" <caeruleo> wrote... > [...] What I'd like to see specifically > addressed are certain things seen in this photograph: > > [url]http://home1.gte.net/res0k62m/133-b.jpg[/url] > > One can see that although the rifle is being held at what appears to be > about an 11 o'clock angle from the front, the shadow of the rifle on the > ground behind him appears to be pointing to about 9 o'clock. What of it? Have you ever studied any geometry, projection, drafting? If not, I cannot help. Yes, the relative positions of the rifle and the sun and the ground are such that ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    "Caeruleo" <caeruleo> wrote...
    > [...] What I'd like to see specifically
    > addressed are certain things seen in this photograph:
    >
    > [url]http://home1.gte.net/res0k62m/133-b.jpg[/url]
    >
    > One can see that although the rifle is being held at what appears to be
    > about an 11 o'clock angle from the front, the shadow of the rifle on the
    > ground behind him appears to be pointing to about 9 o'clock.
    What of it? Have you ever studied any geometry, projection,
    drafting? If not, I cannot help. Yes, the relative positions
    of the rifle and the sun and the ground are such that make the
    rifle cast the shadow that appears "pointing to about 9 o'clock".
    > Also the
    > shadow of his elbow appears to point up,
    No, the shadow of his elbow is right below the shadow of the
    rifle. His forearm casts a very short shadow, being almost
    directly pointing to the sun. What you see "point up" is the
    shadow of the shoulder.
    > while it's plainly a bit down
    > in the image of him. My question is whether or not what we see is
    > consistent with the rifle also being tilted in a direction which is
    > commonly called in English "forward," i.e., the top of it being tilted
    > toward the camera as well as to the person's right.
    Yes, it is consistent.
    > The butt of the
    > rifle seems plainly to be resting on his right hip;
    No, the butt of the rifle is stuck to his belly, directly under
    the right side of the collar, approximately half-way between
    the hip and the navel.
    > note how there are
    > "waves" on his shirt which suggest that it is being pulled down by the
    > butt of the gun.
    The shirt apparently is pulled down.
    > For him to hold the rifle directly to his right
    > without additionally tilting it forward,
    How from this image can you tell he's not tilting it forward?
    > he would rather obviously have
    > to pull his right elbow back a good deal,
    Have you ever held a rifle? Perhaps you need to find one and try...
    > yet I see no shadow on his
    > upper arm which indicates that it is tilted at that great an angle away
    > from the light.
    Away?
    > The light on the upper arm instead indicates that from
    > shoulder to elbow his upper arm is pointed much closer to straight
    > toward the ground, which would automatically put his right hand well
    > forward of his right hip, necessitating that the rifle MUST be tilted
    > foward for it to still rest on his hip. This would of course also cause
    > the shadow of the rifle to rotate forward. With the right elbow held up
    > somewhat, & the sun coming down at a slant, the upward elbow shadow
    > might also be consistent with the light source.
    There is no "upward elbow shadow".
    > Comments?
    Your conclusions are a bunch of nonsense.

    [url]www.bazarov.com/suggestions/133-b.jpg[/url]

    (red is the outline of the body, brown - of the rifle, green
    - of the handgun, yellow lines - light). Enjoy!

    Victor


    Victor Bazarov Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    "Caeruleo" <caeruleo> wrote...
    > [...] What I'd like to see specifically
    > addressed are certain things seen in this photograph:
    >
    > [url]http://home1.gte.net/res0k62m/133-b.jpg[/url]
    >
    > One can see that although the rifle is being held at what appears to be
    > about an 11 o'clock angle from the front, the shadow of the rifle on the
    > ground behind him appears to be pointing to about 9 o'clock.
    What of it? Have you ever studied any geometry, projection,
    drafting? If not, I cannot help. Yes, the relative positions
    of the rifle and the sun and the ground are such that make the
    rifle cast the shadow that appears "pointing to about 9 o'clock".
    > Also the
    > shadow of his elbow appears to point up,
    No, the shadow of his elbow is right below the shadow of the
    rifle. His forearm casts a very short shadow, being almost
    directly pointing to the sun. What you see "point up" is the
    shadow of the shoulder.
    > while it's plainly a bit down
    > in the image of him. My question is whether or not what we see is
    > consistent with the rifle also being tilted in a direction which is
    > commonly called in English "forward," i.e., the top of it being tilted
    > toward the camera as well as to the person's right.
    Yes, it is consistent.
    > The butt of the
    > rifle seems plainly to be resting on his right hip;
    No, the butt of the rifle is stuck to his belly, directly under
    the right side of the collar, approximately half-way between
    the hip and the navel.
    > note how there are
    > "waves" on his shirt which suggest that it is being pulled down by the
    > butt of the gun.
    The shirt apparently is pulled down.
    > For him to hold the rifle directly to his right
    > without additionally tilting it forward,
    How from this image can you tell he's not tilting it forward?
    > he would rather obviously have
    > to pull his right elbow back a good deal,
    Have you ever held a rifle? Perhaps you need to find one and try...
    > yet I see no shadow on his
    > upper arm which indicates that it is tilted at that great an angle away
    > from the light.
    Away?
    > The light on the upper arm instead indicates that from
    > shoulder to elbow his upper arm is pointed much closer to straight
    > toward the ground, which would automatically put his right hand well
    > forward of his right hip, necessitating that the rifle MUST be tilted
    > foward for it to still rest on his hip. This would of course also cause
    > the shadow of the rifle to rotate forward. With the right elbow held up
    > somewhat, & the sun coming down at a slant, the upward elbow shadow
    > might also be consistent with the light source.
    There is no "upward elbow shadow".
    > Comments?
    Your conclusions are a bunch of nonsense.

    [url]www.bazarov.com/suggestions/133-b.jpg[/url]

    (red is the outline of the body, brown - of the rifle, green
    - of the handgun, yellow lines - light). Enjoy!

    Victor


    Victor Bazarov Guest

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    In article <3f0bc3b0$1_3news5.uncensored-news.com>,
    "Jim Phelps" <Jim.PhelpsMI.com> wrote:
    > So, who gives a damn if the shadow falls correctly or not? By the way, no
    > one considered the distortion of the shadow caused by the stairs behind LHO.
    Um, could it be because the gate is partly open?

    --
    "During the school year I am a teacher, but during June & July I am a CIA
    operative." - me, on 6-11-03.
    Caeruleo Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    In article <3f0bc3b0$1_3news5.uncensored-news.com>,
    "Jim Phelps" <Jim.PhelpsMI.com> wrote:
    > So, who gives a damn if the shadow falls correctly or not? By the way, no
    > one considered the distortion of the shadow caused by the stairs behind LHO.
    Um, could it be because the gate is partly open?

    --
    "During the school year I am a teacher, but during June & July I am a CIA
    operative." - me, on 6-11-03.
    Caeruleo Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    In article <vgm2lmju5n29b6corp.supernews.com>,
    "Victor Bazarov" <v.AbazarovattAbi.com> wrote:
    > "Caeruleo" <caeruleo> wrote...
    > > [...] What I'd like to see specifically
    > > addressed are certain things seen in this photograph:
    > >
    > > [url]http://home1.gte.net/res0k62m/133-b.jpg[/url]
    > >
    > > One can see that although the rifle is being held at what appears to be
    > > about an 11 o'clock angle from the front, the shadow of the rifle on the
    > > ground behind him appears to be pointing to about 9 o'clock.
    >
    > What of it? Have you ever studied any geometry, projection,
    > drafting? If not, I cannot help. Yes, the relative positions
    > of the rifle and the sun and the ground are such that make the
    > rifle cast the shadow that appears "pointing to about 9 o'clock".
    Yep.
    > > Also the
    > > shadow of his elbow appears to point up,
    >
    > No, the shadow of his elbow is right below the shadow of the
    > rifle. His forearm casts a very short shadow, being almost
    > directly pointing to the sun. What you see "point up" is the
    > shadow of the shoulder.
    I think we're talking about 2 different things. The shadow of his elbow
    appears to show his elbow pointing upward. But you do understand that
    I'm not finding this inconsistent with natural shadow patterns, correct?
    I've done this myself standing in the sun & seen the shadow of my elbow
    do this very thing.
    > > while it's plainly a bit down
    > > in the image of him. My question is whether or not what we see is
    > > consistent with the rifle also being tilted in a direction which is
    > > commonly called in English "forward," i.e., the top of it being tilted
    > > toward the camera as well as to the person's right.
    >
    > Yes, it is consistent.
    Agreed.
    > > The butt of the
    > > rifle seems plainly to be resting on his right hip;
    >
    > No, the butt of the rifle is stuck to his belly, directly under
    > the right side of the collar, approximately half-way between
    > the hip and the navel.
    Yes, you are correct, as I see now. Sorry.
    > > note how there are
    > > "waves" on his shirt which suggest that it is being pulled down by the
    > > butt of the gun.
    >
    > The shirt apparently is pulled down.
    Yep.
    > > For him to hold the rifle directly to his right
    > > without additionally tilting it forward,
    >
    > How from this image can you tell he's not tilting it forward?
    Lol! I'm the one who's saying it IS tilted forward. ;-)
    > > he would rather obviously have
    > > to pull his right elbow back a good deal,
    >
    > Have you ever held a rifle? Perhaps you need to find one and try...
    That I have done. The most natural way to hold it when resting it on
    one's hip or stomach is for the elbow not to be pulled back too far,
    which will automatically cause the top of the rifle to tilt forward when
    held in the manner we see in that photo.

    You do realize that I'm AGREEING with you that the rifle is tilted
    forward in that photo, correct? ;-)
    > > yet I see no shadow on his
    > > upper arm which indicates that it is tilted at that great an angle away
    > > from the light.
    >
    > Away?
    I was having some trouble thinking of an accurate way of expressing that
    in printed text. Had he held the rifle in this way & NOT tilted it
    forward, it would require his hand on the rifle to be to the right of
    the point on which the butt rested against his body, & not forward of
    that point at all, which would put his elbow back more, causing the
    front of his upper arm to be facing more downward, & thus more on the
    "underside" of the sunlight, causing more shadow to appear on his upper
    arm. But we see no shadow on his upper arm, indicating that from
    shoulder to elbow his upper arm is closer to perpendicular to the
    ground. This would of course also cause his elbow & hand to be more
    forward, further indicating a forward tilt to the rifle.
    > > The light on the upper arm instead indicates that from
    > > shoulder to elbow his upper arm is pointed much closer to straight
    > > toward the ground, which would automatically put his right hand well
    > > forward of his right hip, necessitating that the rifle MUST be tilted
    > > foward for it to still rest on his hip. This would of course also cause
    > > the shadow of the rifle to rotate forward. With the right elbow held up
    > > somewhat, & the sun coming down at a slant, the upward elbow shadow
    > > might also be consistent with the light source.
    >
    > There is no "upward elbow shadow".
    Sorry, I see it quite plainly. Perhaps you're misunderstanding what I'm
    talking about.
    > > Comments?
    >
    > Your conclusions are a bunch of nonsense.
    Rofl! When they essentially agree with yours? It is some other posters
    in a.c.j. who are the naysayers regarding these shadows, not me, & my
    article was posted partially for their benefit. ;-)
    > [url]www.bazarov.com/suggestions/133-b.jpg[/url]
    >
    > (red is the outline of the body, brown - of the rifle, green
    > - of the handgun, yellow lines - light). Enjoy!
    Thanks, good graphics.

    --
    "During the school year I am a teacher, but during June & July I am a CIA
    operative." - me, on 6-11-03.
    Caeruleo Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    In article <vgm2lmju5n29b6corp.supernews.com>,
    "Victor Bazarov" <v.AbazarovattAbi.com> wrote:
    > "Caeruleo" <caeruleo> wrote...
    > > [...] What I'd like to see specifically
    > > addressed are certain things seen in this photograph:
    > >
    > > [url]http://home1.gte.net/res0k62m/133-b.jpg[/url]
    > >
    > > One can see that although the rifle is being held at what appears to be
    > > about an 11 o'clock angle from the front, the shadow of the rifle on the
    > > ground behind him appears to be pointing to about 9 o'clock.
    >
    > What of it? Have you ever studied any geometry, projection,
    > drafting? If not, I cannot help. Yes, the relative positions
    > of the rifle and the sun and the ground are such that make the
    > rifle cast the shadow that appears "pointing to about 9 o'clock".
    Yep.
    > > Also the
    > > shadow of his elbow appears to point up,
    >
    > No, the shadow of his elbow is right below the shadow of the
    > rifle. His forearm casts a very short shadow, being almost
    > directly pointing to the sun. What you see "point up" is the
    > shadow of the shoulder.
    I think we're talking about 2 different things. The shadow of his elbow
    appears to show his elbow pointing upward. But you do understand that
    I'm not finding this inconsistent with natural shadow patterns, correct?
    I've done this myself standing in the sun & seen the shadow of my elbow
    do this very thing.
    > > while it's plainly a bit down
    > > in the image of him. My question is whether or not what we see is
    > > consistent with the rifle also being tilted in a direction which is
    > > commonly called in English "forward," i.e., the top of it being tilted
    > > toward the camera as well as to the person's right.
    >
    > Yes, it is consistent.
    Agreed.
    > > The butt of the
    > > rifle seems plainly to be resting on his right hip;
    >
    > No, the butt of the rifle is stuck to his belly, directly under
    > the right side of the collar, approximately half-way between
    > the hip and the navel.
    Yes, you are correct, as I see now. Sorry.
    > > note how there are
    > > "waves" on his shirt which suggest that it is being pulled down by the
    > > butt of the gun.
    >
    > The shirt apparently is pulled down.
    Yep.
    > > For him to hold the rifle directly to his right
    > > without additionally tilting it forward,
    >
    > How from this image can you tell he's not tilting it forward?
    Lol! I'm the one who's saying it IS tilted forward. ;-)
    > > he would rather obviously have
    > > to pull his right elbow back a good deal,
    >
    > Have you ever held a rifle? Perhaps you need to find one and try...
    That I have done. The most natural way to hold it when resting it on
    one's hip or stomach is for the elbow not to be pulled back too far,
    which will automatically cause the top of the rifle to tilt forward when
    held in the manner we see in that photo.

    You do realize that I'm AGREEING with you that the rifle is tilted
    forward in that photo, correct? ;-)
    > > yet I see no shadow on his
    > > upper arm which indicates that it is tilted at that great an angle away
    > > from the light.
    >
    > Away?
    I was having some trouble thinking of an accurate way of expressing that
    in printed text. Had he held the rifle in this way & NOT tilted it
    forward, it would require his hand on the rifle to be to the right of
    the point on which the butt rested against his body, & not forward of
    that point at all, which would put his elbow back more, causing the
    front of his upper arm to be facing more downward, & thus more on the
    "underside" of the sunlight, causing more shadow to appear on his upper
    arm. But we see no shadow on his upper arm, indicating that from
    shoulder to elbow his upper arm is closer to perpendicular to the
    ground. This would of course also cause his elbow & hand to be more
    forward, further indicating a forward tilt to the rifle.
    > > The light on the upper arm instead indicates that from
    > > shoulder to elbow his upper arm is pointed much closer to straight
    > > toward the ground, which would automatically put his right hand well
    > > forward of his right hip, necessitating that the rifle MUST be tilted
    > > foward for it to still rest on his hip. This would of course also cause
    > > the shadow of the rifle to rotate forward. With the right elbow held up
    > > somewhat, & the sun coming down at a slant, the upward elbow shadow
    > > might also be consistent with the light source.
    >
    > There is no "upward elbow shadow".
    Sorry, I see it quite plainly. Perhaps you're misunderstanding what I'm
    talking about.
    > > Comments?
    >
    > Your conclusions are a bunch of nonsense.
    Rofl! When they essentially agree with yours? It is some other posters
    in a.c.j. who are the naysayers regarding these shadows, not me, & my
    article was posted partially for their benefit. ;-)
    > [url]www.bazarov.com/suggestions/133-b.jpg[/url]
    >
    > (red is the outline of the body, brown - of the rifle, green
    > - of the handgun, yellow lines - light). Enjoy!
    Thanks, good graphics.

    --
    "During the school year I am a teacher, but during June & July I am a CIA
    operative." - me, on 6-11-03.
    Caeruleo Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    ;-)

    Al, really, no dissrespect intended, I do feel that if there indeed was a conspiracy,
    Oswald was at least a willing, if gullible and missled, part of it. The whole issue
    is probably forever clouded by the fact that there were likely some personal
    relationships and actions of J.F.K. and his family that the administration/secret
    service/F.B.I. etc. were concerned with quieting.

    Did he (Oswald) own a 6.5 carcano, very possibly, I myself owned one in the 70's,
    they were very common at the time, and even more so in the sixties. Did he get his
    picture taken with it? Again possible, although I wouldn't, the rifle was a hunk of
    garbage as far as long range rifles go. And ugly to boot. Point being, lots of people
    owned one and I'm sure some had their pictures taken with them.They didn't all,
    however, shoot the president.(Likely, *more* than one did though)

    Gun people are a lot like many photographers in that they love their favorite piece
    of equipment and tend to show it to the world.

    I don't remember exactly what the mail order company that he allegedly bought it from
    charged for the rifles, but it was a good bit of money to the average "working stiff"
    of the time? Might be something a man would be proud of and want to show off.
    --
    _______________________

    -Keith



    ________________________
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    news:Xns93B2EFA63C928sandalsatwadinginnet65.32.1. 8...
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    ;-)

    Al, really, no dissrespect intended, I do feel that if there indeed was a conspiracy,
    Oswald was at least a willing, if gullible and missled, part of it. The whole issue
    is probably forever clouded by the fact that there were likely some personal
    relationships and actions of J.F.K. and his family that the administration/secret
    service/F.B.I. etc. were concerned with quieting.

    Did he (Oswald) own a 6.5 carcano, very possibly, I myself owned one in the 70's,
    they were very common at the time, and even more so in the sixties. Did he get his
    picture taken with it? Again possible, although I wouldn't, the rifle was a hunk of
    garbage as far as long range rifles go. And ugly to boot. Point being, lots of people
    owned one and I'm sure some had their pictures taken with them.They didn't all,
    however, shoot the president.(Likely, *more* than one did though)

    Gun people are a lot like many photographers in that they love their favorite piece
    of equipment and tend to show it to the world.

    I don't remember exactly what the mail order company that he allegedly bought it from
    charged for the rifles, but it was a good bit of money to the average "working stiff"
    of the time? Might be something a man would be proud of and want to show off.
    --
    _______________________

    -Keith



    ________________________
    "Al Denelsbeck" <newswadingin.net> wrote in message
    news:Xns93B2EFA63C928sandalsatwadinginnet65.32.1. 8...
    > "Beta Max" <noneyabinnis.com> wrote in news:bef4e4$9gs$1ins22.netins.net:


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system ([url]http://www.grisoft.com[/url]).
    Version: 6.0.498 / Virus Database: 297 - Release Date: 7/8/2003


    Beta Max Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    Caeruleo <caeruleo> writes:
    >SNIPs of other stuff and attributes<
    > > > The butt of the
    > > > rifle seems plainly to be resting on his right hip;
    > >
    > > No, the butt of the rifle is stuck to his belly, directly under
    > > the right side of the collar, approximately half-way between
    > > the hip and the navel.
    >
    > Yes, you are correct, as I see now. Sorry.
    The butt of the rifle appears to be where it is so that it clears the
    revolver in the holster. Ordinarily I would expect the butt to rest on the
    iliac crest, but the revolver makes that impossible in this instance.

    This is a horrible scan of a bad print, and I'm not willing to make any
    conclusions based on this image. My preference is to use the one at
    [url]http://www.disinfotainmenttoday.com/darenet/oswald.htm[/url]

    --
    Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
    Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip
    [url]http://www.PhilipStripling.com/[/url] | my domain is read daily.
    Phil Stripling Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    Caeruleo <caeruleo> writes:
    >SNIPs of other stuff and attributes<
    > > > The butt of the
    > > > rifle seems plainly to be resting on his right hip;
    > >
    > > No, the butt of the rifle is stuck to his belly, directly under
    > > the right side of the collar, approximately half-way between
    > > the hip and the navel.
    >
    > Yes, you are correct, as I see now. Sorry.
    The butt of the rifle appears to be where it is so that it clears the
    revolver in the holster. Ordinarily I would expect the butt to rest on the
    iliac crest, but the revolver makes that impossible in this instance.

    This is a horrible scan of a bad print, and I'm not willing to make any
    conclusions based on this image. My preference is to use the one at
    [url]http://www.disinfotainmenttoday.com/darenet/oswald.htm[/url]

    --
    Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
    Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip
    [url]http://www.PhilipStripling.com/[/url] | my domain is read daily.
    Phil Stripling Guest

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    Philip Stripling Wrote:
    "This is a horrible scan of a bad print, and I'm not willing to make any
    conclusions based on this image. My preference is to use the one at
    http://www.disinfotainmenttoday.com/darenet/oswald.htm"



    PPPPFFFFFFFFFTT!!!! <drink flying out of my mouth hitting screen>
    ROFLMAO!!!
    Good One,
    Thanks!

    Sarah






    Nuttshaw Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    Philip Stripling Wrote:
    "This is a horrible scan of a bad print, and I'm not willing to make any
    conclusions based on this image. My preference is to use the one at
    http://www.disinfotainmenttoday.com/darenet/oswald.htm"



    PPPPFFFFFFFFFTT!!!! <drink flying out of my mouth hitting screen>
    ROFLMAO!!!
    Good One,
    Thanks!

    Sarah






    Nuttshaw Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    In article <3qhe5va9zc.fsfshell4.tdl.com>,
    Phil Stripling <phil_striplingcieux.zzn.com> wrote:
    > Caeruleo <caeruleo> writes:
    >
    > >SNIPs of other stuff and attributes<
    > > > > The butt of the
    > > > > rifle seems plainly to be resting on his right hip;
    > > >
    > > > No, the butt of the rifle is stuck to his belly, directly under
    > > > the right side of the collar, approximately half-way between
    > > > the hip and the navel.
    > >
    > > Yes, you are correct, as I see now. Sorry.
    >
    > The butt of the rifle appears to be where it is so that it clears the
    > revolver in the holster. Ordinarily I would expect the butt to rest on the
    > iliac crest, but the revolver makes that impossible in this instance.
    >
    > This is a horrible scan of a bad print, and I'm not willing to make any
    > conclusions based on this image. My preference is to use the one at
    > [url]http://www.disinfotainmenttoday.com/darenet/oswald.htm[/url]
    So THAT'S what really happened down in that basement! It was a
    CONSPIRACY!! Oswald is really still ALIVE!!! He changed his name & has
    lived in Huntsville, Tx. since...

    ....1967!!!!

    Ok, ok, Deb, I confess...ya caught me...I should have been posting with
    my real name all this time but...well, you know, her & the 2 girls, I
    really couldn't take it anymore, & a Communist? ROFL!! Naw, I was
    foolin' everyone, Green Party all the way here, save those trees & all
    that, cut that Aspen down over my dead body!










    As if.

    --
    "During the school year I am a teacher, but during June & July I am a CIA
    operative." - me, on 6-11-03.
    Caeruleo Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    In article <3qhe5va9zc.fsfshell4.tdl.com>,
    Phil Stripling <phil_striplingcieux.zzn.com> wrote:
    > Caeruleo <caeruleo> writes:
    >
    > >SNIPs of other stuff and attributes<
    > > > > The butt of the
    > > > > rifle seems plainly to be resting on his right hip;
    > > >
    > > > No, the butt of the rifle is stuck to his belly, directly under
    > > > the right side of the collar, approximately half-way between
    > > > the hip and the navel.
    > >
    > > Yes, you are correct, as I see now. Sorry.
    >
    > The butt of the rifle appears to be where it is so that it clears the
    > revolver in the holster. Ordinarily I would expect the butt to rest on the
    > iliac crest, but the revolver makes that impossible in this instance.
    >
    > This is a horrible scan of a bad print, and I'm not willing to make any
    > conclusions based on this image. My preference is to use the one at
    > [url]http://www.disinfotainmenttoday.com/darenet/oswald.htm[/url]
    So THAT'S what really happened down in that basement! It was a
    CONSPIRACY!! Oswald is really still ALIVE!!! He changed his name & has
    lived in Huntsville, Tx. since...

    ....1967!!!!

    Ok, ok, Deb, I confess...ya caught me...I should have been posting with
    my real name all this time but...well, you know, her & the 2 girls, I
    really couldn't take it anymore, & a Communist? ROFL!! Naw, I was
    foolin' everyone, Green Party all the way here, save those trees & all
    that, cut that Aspen down over my dead body!










    As if.

    --
    "During the school year I am a teacher, but during June & July I am a CIA
    operative." - me, on 6-11-03.
    Caeruleo Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    In article <caeruleo-DB31F5.12063408072003news.fu-berlin.de>,
    Caeruleo <caeruleo> wrote:
    >
    >[url]http://home1.gte.net/res0k62m/133-b.jpg[/url]
    >
    I see a grainy photo of a geek with a gun. Nothing more, nothing less.
    It certainly isn't proof that anyone shot anyone else as far as I can see.

    --drsmith
    drsmith Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Amazing! Level of Discourse Rises on Newsgroup

    In article <caeruleo-DB31F5.12063408072003news.fu-berlin.de>,
    Caeruleo <caeruleo> wrote:
    >
    >[url]http://home1.gte.net/res0k62m/133-b.jpg[/url]
    >
    I see a grainy photo of a geek with a gun. Nothing more, nothing less.
    It certainly isn't proof that anyone shot anyone else as far as I can see.

    --drsmith
    drsmith Guest

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