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Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac - Mac Applications & Software

Why is it that AppleTalk filesharing greatly slows down my Mac, while Netopia's Dave Windows filesharing does not? I'm not die hard to setup a fileserver for the limited Mac users in my orginization, but it is something that comes to mind. However it wont be done as long as my Mac is a third slower with filesharing on. I have my Mac setup 24/7 for the PC users to access, and I do not notice a speed difference. You can argue that its slow because I have an older G3 300 Mac, but I think its also a problem ...

  1. #1

    Default Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    Why is it that AppleTalk filesharing greatly slows down my Mac, while Netopia's
    Dave Windows filesharing does not? I'm not die hard to setup a fileserver for
    the limited Mac users in my orginization, but it is something that comes to
    mind. However it wont be done as long as my Mac is a third slower with
    filesharing on. I have my Mac setup 24/7 for the PC users to access, and I do
    not notice a speed difference. You can argue that its slow because I have an
    older G3 300 Mac, but I think its also a problem with Apple's filesharing
    system. Man you could use a 486/66 PC running 3.11 and you wont notice much
    speed problems with filesharing on.

    I wonder if this problem is fixed in X. If it requires an upgrade, I'll stick
    with Dave.
    --------------
    Vote George W. Bush for President in 2004!
    Vote Arnold Schwarzenegger for California Governor in 2003!

    Leo Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    On 11 Sep 2003 06:27:53 GMT,
    Leo (comnojunk) wrote: 

    Could you post benchmarks that prove this, because I don't believe you?
    CIFS v/s AppleTalk for the transport should make little to no difference
    to the load on your processor. Most likely, this is another lie
    conjured up by you.
     

    Umm ... Dave isn't a Netopia product. It is a Thursby product.

     

    This is the part that I don't believe. It is a lie. And keeps in
    character with the rest of the lies you've posted on this group at various
    points of time.
     

    Would that be filesharing via "sneaker-net" diaper-boy? Windows 3.11 had
    no built-in networking stack from Microsoft. Windows for Workgroups was
    the first Windows release that had built-in support for filesharing. Anyway
    that's an aside. As someone who has supported Windows for Workgroups in
    1991, it is my experience that hung shares were extremely common and would
    crash both computers. Prior to the crash the "server" would slow down to
    a crawl with "disk-thrashing".

    But then again, you wouldn't know anything about this, for its the truth,
    and that is something that you abhore.

    Beverly
     

    And here's where I get to have my fun:

    Vote John Wolf for village idiot now!
    Vote Leo as Mr. Diapers 2003!
    Register your vote by emailing com!

    --
    Bev A. Kupf
    "The lyfe so short, the craft so long to lerne" -- Chaucer
    Bev Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:58:49 GMT,
    Bev A. Kupf (net) wrote: 

    Mea culpa. Based on my employment history, it is far more likely that
    this was in 1992 or 1993. In 1991, I had a short-lived job in NeXT
    hardware/software support in Cleveland, Ohio.

    Bev
    --
    Bev A. Kupf
    "The lyfe so short, the craft so long to lerne" -- Chaucer
    Bev Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    Why exactly do you think we should help someone who regularly lies to us and
    deceives us? And I guess it was another of your deceptions when you made a big
    deal of saying you were no longer a paid subscriber to AOL.
    Pityjwolf Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    Leo <comnojunk> wrote:
     

    [snip]
     

    Here's a perfect example of why people here flame you. You start by
    saying AppleTalk file sharing slows down _your_ Mac. That, in itself,
    is true, and if you stopped there and asked for suggestions, all would
    be well, as long as you didn't then argue with the people who were
    trying to help you.

    But you _don't_ stop there. It seems you never do. No, you go on to
    make a general, and erroneous, claim, in this case that there's a
    problem with Apple's file sharing system. Why, then, do others not have
    your problem? And the fact is that most do not.

    It's also been pointed out to you that Mac/PC comparisons are off-topic
    here and belong in groups like comp.sys.mac.advocacy.

    --
    Mike Rosenberg

    <http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
    <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
    Mike Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    oh, great. The Diaper Boy is back.

    On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 1:27:53 -0500, Leo wrote
    (in message <aol.com>):
     

    Turning on filesharing on _some_ versions of System 7 on _early_ hardware
    slowed them down; Apple allocated 50% of the system resources to file
    sharing. This has not been true since System 7.5.5, and was significant
    mostly on Quadra or earlier level machines. Filesharing on OS 9 or OS X
    machines does not significantly slow the host machine. This is because Apple
    has cleaned up the sharing system, and because the machines capable of
    running OS 9 or OS X are significantly more powerfull than those which ran
    System 7.x, so that even though they devote a larger, absolute, amount of
    resources to sharing, the percentage of resources so devoted has fallen to
    miniscule proportions, there being a rather significant difference in the
    power of a 68030 and a G4, not to mention more and faster RAM and larger and
    faster hard disks. So, are you running 7.1 on a Classic or some such, Diaper
    Boy?
     

    1 the product's name is DAVE, not Dave. I'd say that this goes a far way
    towards proving that not only are you a moron, you're also culturally
    ignorant. (Hint: there was a movie involving a computer named HAL. One of the
    other characters was named David Bowman.)

    2 DAVE is not marketted, produced, or otherwise connected to, Netopia.
     

    Bull. Filesharing is either on or off. If it's on, it slows down the
    machine (if you're using olde hardward, and older versions of the OS) for
    _all_ users. Unfortunately for you, older hardware and older versions of the
    OS don't support direct connections to Windows machines without 3rd party
    software.
     

    if you have a G3 you will not be able to detect the difference in performence
    between filesharing/no filesharing without a stopwatch.
     

    Trolling again, are we? (What a question. Of course he is...) Unlike you, I
    was working with computers during the hey-day of WfW and I know from actual
    experience just how much of a lie what you just posted is. W3.11 was a
    complete pig when it came to filesharing. Apple allocated 50% of resources;
    Mickeysoft didn't set an upper limit (or, if they did, it was damn high) so
    that if you had a Mac with filesharing on, you noticed a slowdown but how
    much it slowed didn't change much when additional users logged in. Meanwhile,
    under WfW you noticed a slowdown when one user logged in (not as great as
    when the first user logged in on a Mac, but there) and then things got slower
    and slower and slower and REALLY REALLY SLOWER as more users logged in until
    the machine was virtually unusable after about six users were logged in.
     

    as you don't have DAVE in the first place...
     



    --
    We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant.
    Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to
    our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile.

    Charles Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 5:58:49 -0500, Bev A. Kupf wrote
    (in message <mimnet.northwestern.edu>):
     
    >
    > Could you post benchmarks that prove this, because I don't believe you?
    > CIFS v/s AppleTalk for the transport should make little to no difference
    > to the load on your processor. Most likely, this is another lie
    > conjured up by you.

    >
    > Umm ... Dave isn't a Netopia product. It is a Thursby product.
    >

    >
    > This is the part that I don't believe. It is a lie. And keeps in
    > character with the rest of the lies you've posted on this group at various
    > points of time.

    >
    > Would that be filesharing via "sneaker-net" diaper-boy? Windows 3.11 had
    > no built-in networking stack from Microsoft. Windows for Workgroups was
    > the first Windows release that had built-in support for filesharing. Anyway
    > that's an aside. As someone who has supported Windows for Workgroups in
    > 1991, it is my experience that hung shares were extremely common and would
    > crash both computers. Prior to the crash the "server" would slow down to
    > a crawl with "disk-thrashing".[/ref]

    The thrashing would start to become evident at about the fourth or fifth user
    to log in.

    The only problem I have with what you wrote is that, IIRC, WfW _was_ Win3.11,
    wasn't it?
     
    >
    > And here's where I get to have my fun:
    >
    > Vote John Wolf for village idiot now!
    > Vote Leo as Mr. Diapers 2003!
    > Register your vote by emailing com!
    >
    >[/ref]



    --
    We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant.
    Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to
    our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile.

    Charles Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    In article <mimnet.northwestern.edu>,
    "Bev A. Kupf" <net> wrote:
     
    >
    > Could you post benchmarks that prove this, because I don't believe you?
    > CIFS v/s AppleTalk for the transport should make little to no difference
    > to the load on your processor. Most likely, this is another lie
    > conjured up by you.[/ref]



    why dont you beklieve me?

     
    >
    > Umm ... Dave isn't a Netopia product. It is a Thursby product.
    >

    >
    > This is the part that I don't believe. It is a lie. And keeps in
    > character with the rest of the lies you've posted on this group at various
    > points of time.[/ref]

    it is a thrd slower on my mac, why dont you believe me???

     
    >
    > Would that be filesharing via "sneaker-net" diaper-boy?[/ref]

    ypiur finally lrning my real na,me....


    Windows 3.11 had 
    >
    > And here's where I get to have my fun:
    >
    > Vote John Wolf for village idiot now!
    > Vote Leo as Mr. Diapers 2003!
    > Register your vote by emailing com![/ref]
    Jdoggy Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    In article <1g1462f.jfmmnwdgte6lN%invalid>,
    invalid (Mike Rosenberg) wrote:
     
    >
    > [snip]

    >
    > Here's a perfect example of why people here flame you. You start by
    > saying AppleTalk file sharing slows down _your_ Mac. That, in itself,
    > is true, and if you stopped there and asked for suggestions, all would
    > be well, as long as you didn't then argue with the people who were
    > trying to help you.
    >
    > But you _don't_ stop there. It seems you never do. No, you go on to
    > make a general, and erroneous, claim, in this case that there's a
    > problem with Apple's file sharing system. Why, then, do others not have
    > your problem? And the fact is that most do not.
    >
    > It's also been pointed out to you that Mac/PC comparisons are off-topic
    > here and belong in groups like comp.sys.mac.advocacy.[/ref]



    I'm going to reburt you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Jdoggy Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 8:37:46 -0500,
    Charles Dyer (com) wrote: 

    Oh no, there was a Windows 3.11, followed by WfWg 3.1, followed by
    WfWg 3.11: <http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/windows.htm>

    WfWg 3.1 was the first release of Windows that integrated Windows
    with a networking stack from Microsoft. It was an incredibly buggy
    stack that didn't conform to the Winsock 1.0 specification that
    Microsoft authored. At the time, the consulting firm I worked for
    recommended replacing the Microsoft stack with either a stack from
    Netmanage (Chameleon) or Frontier (SuperTCP). The now defunct
    FTP Software (purchased by Netmanage) and Beame & Whiteside also
    had superb networking stacks for WfWg.

    Beverly
    --
    Bev A. Kupf
    "The lyfe so short, the craft so long to lerne" -- Chaucer
    Bev Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    >CIFS v/s AppleTalk for the transport should make little to no difference 

    Actually Appleshare does slow down the Mac OS my friend... It pays to research
    your findings.

    4. Turning on file sharing on a Mac slows down everything on that computer
    quantifiably, especially time to startup.
    5. Remote control programs like Timbuktu Pro are more useful and more
    robust. But they cost money. A bunch of people use them.
    6. If you have OS X on the work computer, secure FTP is a possibility.
    7. Appleshare over Appletalk via PPP will work with the Life Sciences
    dialup server. A number of people have used that in the past (and present, too,
    I guess)
    8. The ASIP implementation built into OS 9.x is no faster than Appletalk
    in my experience (i.e., nowhere near as fast as the ASIP speeds you can get
    with Win2K or netatalk on linux or OS X). But if connecting over the internet
    that may be irrelevant.

    http://my.brandeis.edu/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0000P4


    Greenmamba9999 Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 9:42:37 -0500, Bev A. Kupf wrote
    (in message <mimnet.northwestern.edu>):
     
    >
    > Oh no, there was a Windows 3.11, followed by WfWg 3.1, followed by
    > WfWg 3.11: <http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/windows.htm>[/ref]

    Ah. That's it. I _knew_ that I'd been running _something_ which was both WfW
    and 3.11.
     

    I remember having to do all kinds of things to get WfW to admit that there
    was such a thing as the internet...


    --
    We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant.
    Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to
    our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile.

    Charles Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    On 12 Sep 2003 03:48:45 GMT,
    Greenmamba9999 (com) wrote: 
    >
    > Actually Appleshare does slow down the Mac OS my friend... It pays to research
    > your findings.
    >
    > 4. Turning on file sharing on a Mac slows down everything on that computer
    > quantifiably, especially time to startup.[/ref]

    Jdoggy/diaper-boy,

    Changing your username doesn't make your arguments any better. DAVE will
    increase startup time just as much as turning on AppleShare will. That
    has nothing to do with slowing down a computer after it is booted. Neither
    of them will. That was your original bogus claim.
     

    WTF does this have to do with AppleShare?
     

    Or this?
     

    Or this?
     

    Then your experience is dead wrong. ASIP is faster than AppleShare
    over AppleTalk independent of whether you are on a 10baseT or a 100baseT
    network. The difference is much easier to observe on a 100baseT network
    than on a 10baseT network. The reason is simple - DDP packets are size
    limited to about 600 bytes.

    Beverly
    --
    Bev A. Kupf
    "The lyfe so short, the craft so long to lerne" -- Chaucer
    Bev Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    Greenmamba9999 <com> wrote:
     

    Okay, Mr. John Wolf, while your general statement is true, "research"
    does NOT mean looking for one thing that supports your bias and stating
    it as fact. You've done that time and time again, under various
    aliases, and you've been taken to task each time. I can post URLs to
    pages stating that Elvis Presley is alive. Would that make him any less
    dead?
     

    Okay, so someone named Steve Karel posted something to a message board a
    year and a half ago that supports your view. So, who is Steve Karel and
    how do you know he's correct? I can post the URL to a very recent
    message by a PhD in Computer Sciences saying you're wrong, and I can
    tell you specific reasons why I believe this person, including that I've
    read dozens of posts by this same person and they've been nearly 100%
    technically correct. No offense to Mr. Karel, but what are his
    credentials and track record?

    --
    Mike Rosenberg

    <http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
    <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
    Mike Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    What happened to the deal jwolf made that he would leave the mac boards?

    Ruby
    RubyTuesday Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:49:28 GMT,
    RubyTuesday (com) wrote: 

    Clearly, he lied again. He's a proven liar. He lies on the Mac groups,
    & Sue, Mike and I caught him lying on a PC group (microsoft.public.handheldpc)

    Funny thing is that of all the people on that group, he was the only one
    who found us catching him lying "abusive". I rather get the impression
    the others didn't mind at all. In fact the moderator invited Mike and me
    to stay on and join the discussion.

    Beverly
    --
    Bev A. Kupf
    "The lyfe so short, the craft so long to lerne" -- Chaucer
    Bev Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    Bev A. Kupf <net> wrote:
     

    Want another giggle? Our guy, under his new "Beach Boy" guise, tried to
    catch an anti-Mac-users wave in alt.os.windows-xp, but didn't exactly
    get any good vibrations:

    <http://www.google.com/groups?q=author:beach+author:boy&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF
    -8&selm=06dbe2f9730abe9913d32231f9e5dd26%40news.ter anews.com&rnum=2>

    Be sure to read the whole thread. I'd say it was a wipeout.

    --
    Mike Rosenberg

    <http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
    <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
    Mike Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:57:04 -0400,
    Mike Rosenberg (invalid) wrote: 

    I think that is a pretty sad commentary on John Wolf. I'lld think it
    was funnier, but we just learned this week that the SO's cat has cancer,
    and have to put her to sleep tomorrow. We've had the cat for 15 years.
    As some would have it -- bummer.

    Beverly
    --
    Bev A. Kupf
    "The lyfe so short, the craft so long to lerne" -- Chaucer
    Bev Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    >Greenmamba9999 <com> wrote: [/ref]

    Execuse me sir but you have mistaken me with someone else.

    But for the OP's message, yes Appletalk and filesharing does slow down a Mac.
    Maybe not by a third, but there is definately some evidence to this. It pays
    for you to do soem research before you jump to conclusions sir...
     


    Greenmamba9999 Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Appletalk filesharing slows down the mac

    > Greenmamba9999 (com) wrote: [/ref][/ref]

    Execuse me are you referring me to someone else mam?
     
    >research 
    >
    >Jdoggy/diaper-boy,
    >
    >Changing your username doesn't make your arguments any better. DAVE will
    >increase startup time just as much as turning on AppleShare will. That
    >has nothing to do with slowing down a computer after it is booted. Neither
    >of them will. That was your original bogus claim.

    >
    >WTF does this have to do with AppleShare?

    >
    >
    >Or this?

    >too, 
    >
    >Or this?

    >get [/ref]
    internet 
    >
    >Then your experience is dead wrong. ASIP is faster than AppleShare
    >over AppleTalk independent of whether you are on a 10baseT or a 100baseT
    >network. The difference is much easier to observe on a 100baseT network
    >than on a 10baseT network. The reason is simple - DDP packets are size
    >limited to about 600 bytes.
    >
    >Beverly
    >--
    >Bev A. Kupf
    >"The lyfe so short, the craft so long to lerne" -- Chaucer[/ref]


    Greenmamba9999 Guest

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