AppleWorks vs. MS Office

[Frédérique & Hervé Sainct]

Your question here is an almost political issue; some certainly will
tell you to select any other app than Microsoft whatever the adaptation
step for the sake of respecting diversity, some may even hate you if you
don't ;-)

Anyway!
Basically no other word processor than MSWord will *guarantee* you a
complete compatibility -which is quite normal, but in fact once this is
understood many solutions exist, and most bring other, interesting
features that you won't find in the standard Word world...

There are at least three way of attempting to solve the problem:

1- by using alternate commercial word processors and worksheet
applications that will be more or less able to import/export MS files.
Among them (do a google search in this very group) you'll find almost
all word processors, and a variety of worksheets either bundled (like
AppleWorks) or separate (Mariner calc...). This category encompasses
pieces of software that have been developing for years and are very
mature, stable, and feature-packed when compared to the other two.
Certainly most of the other posts around will detail features from one
or another such app

2- by using free tools. Some are obsessed with absolute-no-cost... Most
of these applications will be complicated to install (for instance there
is an entierely free project that installs an office-like onto Apple X11
environment: consider downloading some hundred Mbytes here, and
bug-correcting updates are published almost weekly) but some may be
nifty (eg there are unix system-wide 'services' that will read word docs
right into your word processor... search for "antiword services" and
similars)

3- by using java-based tools. While these may be close to my point (1)
they have at least three particularities: they are using an interpreter
(the Java machine), not a compiler, so they are both slower (sometimes
much slower) and machine-independant (ie you could run them... both on
your mac and on a PC!); they are recent, contrary to "classical"
applications, so you'll feel the wind of modernity... and sometimes less
maturity :-)
An example here is thinkfree Office which in addition to word and excel
compatibility features one of the best powerpoint-format reader.

Personally I own AppleWorks and Thinkfree Office, but am not running
daily transfers from microsoft. Feel free to email me if you have
specific questions on those two.

--
Frédérique & Hervé Sainct, [email]h.sainct@laposte.net[/email]
Frédérique's initial is missing in front of the above address
l'initiale de Frédérique manque devant l'adresse email ci-dessus

[Randall Ainsworth]

Appleworks is pretty lame...designed for beginners and retards. You
won't find better than Office v.X.

[George Williams]

[email]mark@markscoleman.com[/email] wrote:

>
> Will I be able to
> reliably read/write Office files created in Windows using AppleWorks? I'd be
> interested in user experiences about this.

My experience is that with MacLinkPlus, I've been able to use Appleworks
to open and edit all the doc and xls files that researchers send me.
Mostly spreadsheets, the rest word-processing documents.

[Tim Cutts]

In article <2bUSa.101096$wk6.27156@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> ,
<mark@markscoleman.com> wrote:

>Greetings,
>
>I'm new Mac user (or is the term now "switcher"). I just bought a new
>Powerbook G4 and want to get an office suite. I had a couple of questions
>regarding compatibilty between Office .doc and .xls files and AppleWorks.
>Microsoft charges a bundle for a new Mac Office license, so I'm exploring
>other options. My primary concern is compatbility. Will I be able to
>reliably read/write Office files created in Windows using AppleWorks? I'd be
>interested in user experiences about this.

You missed an opportunity to get it at slightly less ridiculous cost -
at least in the UK, it's much cheaper if you buy it at the same time as
a new Mac (although the deal is less good than it was a few months ago -
I got it for £125 with my new PowerBook, and now they seem to be asking
£199). Either way it's better than the full UK price of £389. [ quoted
prices from [url]www.cancomuk.com[/url], exclusive of VAT ]

Others in this thread have claimed only Office v.X will give you full
compatibility. Sadly even that is not true; I got bitten a couple of
weeks ago. I created a PowerPoint presentation on my Mac, and sent it
ahead to the conference at which I was speaking. When I came to see it
on the PC they had installed, most of the bullet point animations were
broken, and I had a very panicky 10 minutes fixing them. Good thing I
asked to check when I arrived, rather than discover the problems during
the presentation...

So, the compatibility between Office versions isn't bad, but it is by no
means complete.

Tim

[J]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:05:18 -0400, [email]mark@markscoleman.com[/email] wrote
(in message <2bUSa.101096$wk6.27156@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> ):

> Greetings,
>
> I'm new Mac user (or is the term now "switcher"). I just bought a new
> Powerbook G4 and want to get an office suite. I had a couple of questions
> regarding compatibilty between Office .doc and .xls files and AppleWorks.
> Microsoft charges a bundle for a new Mac Office license, so I'm exploring
> other options. My primary concern is compatbility. Will I be able to
> reliably read/write Office files created in Windows using AppleWorks? I'd be
> interested in user experiences about this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark

I purchase OfficeX from ebay from a good price. Much less than the "special
offer" that I would have gotten when I purchased my PowerBook.

So far, how do you like OSX so far?

J

[David C.]

[email]mark@markscoleman.com[/email] writes:

>
> I'm new Mac user (or is the term now "switcher"). I just bought a
> new Powerbook G4 and want to get an office suite. I had a couple of
> questions regarding compatibilty between Office .doc and .xls files
> and AppleWorks. Microsoft charges a bundle for a new Mac Office
> license, so I'm exploring other options. My primary concern is
> compatbility. Will I be able to reliably read/write Office files
> created in Windows using AppleWorks? I'd be interested in user
> experiences about this.

AppleWorks is much less expensive. It's also not nearly as
feature-laden. It works great for basic stuff, but I wold not
consider it a replacement for Office if you need to work with Office
files or use some of Office's high-end files.

The nearest Windows equivalent to AppleWorks is Microsoft Works, not
Office.

Mac Link Plus (by DataViz) will convert files between Office and AW
format, but the conversions will not be complete. Due to the fact
that AW doesn't have as many features as Office, you will lose some
stuff (especially embedded objects) in the conversion.

-- David

[Gregory Weston]

In article <m2y8yrmonq.fsf@qqqq.invalid>, [email]shamino@techie.com[/email] (David C.)
wrote:

> Mac Link Plus (by DataViz) will convert files between Office and AW
> format, but the conversions will not be complete. Due to the fact
> that AW doesn't have as many features as Office, you will lose some
> stuff (especially embedded objects) in the conversion.
>

Note especially that multi-sheet spreadsheets are handled in a very
unpleasant fashion by MacLinkPlus. It builds a single sheet with
subsequent pages from the original tacked on vertically. Columns widths
are imposed by the first page.

G

[Gregory Weston]

In article <210720031043384001%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
Randall Ainsworth <rag@nospam.techline.com> wrote:

> Appleworks is pretty lame...designed for beginners and retards. You
> won't find better than Office v.X.

Randall raises an interesting point. It's wrong, but it's interesting.
_If_ you need interoperability with Office users, Office is by far the
best solution. If you don't need it, or if your need for Office
compatibility is infrequent and untaxing, AppleWorks with MacLinkPlus is
probably adequate. Some people might feel that a fairly clean interface
on top of functionality that addresses all the needs of most users is
cause for disdain. Ignore them and judge the product on its merits for
your needs.

[Stan]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:05:18 +0200, [email]mark@markscoleman.com[/email] wrote
(in message <2bUSa.101096$wk6.27156@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> ):

> Greetings,
>
> I'm new Mac user (or is the term now "switcher"). I just bought a new
> Powerbook G4 and want to get an office suite. I had a couple of questions
> regarding compatibilty between Office .doc and .xls files and AppleWorks.
> ...
>
> Mark

Did you consider Open Office (1.0.3) with Apple X11? It's sufficiently
user-friendly; compatibility with MS .doc, .xls and .ppt is good (it does not
execute VB macros). The software is easy to install, these are well-behaving
OS-X applications.

See:
<http://porting.openoffice.org/mac>
<http://www.apple.com/X11> (the windowing system, prerequisite for OOo/mac)
<http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/p_FAQ_OS_X.php3> - printer drivers (4.2.5)

For a professional's review of the writer component see:
<http://www.raycomm.com/techwhirl/magazine/technical/openofficewriter.html>

--
Stan.

[JSF]

Try Openoffice.org ([url]www.openoffice.org[/url]). Works great and it's FREE!! I use
it all the time to edit MS Office docs (excel, word and Powerpoint) on my Mac
that I use on my work Laptop also.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:05:18 GMT [email]mark@markscoleman.com[/email] wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I'm new Mac user (or is the term now "switcher"). I just bought a new
> Powerbook G4 and want to get an office suite. I had a couple of questions
> regarding compatibilty between Office .doc and .xls files and AppleWorks.
> Microsoft charges a bundle for a new Mac Office license, so I'm exploring
> other options. My primary concern is compatbility. Will I be able to
> reliably read/write Office files created in Windows using AppleWorks? I'd be
> interested in user experiences about this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>

[Gerry Scott-Moore]

In article <210720031043384001%rag@nospam.techline.com>, Randall
Ainsworth <rag@nospam.techline.com> wrote:

> Appleworks is pretty lame...designed for beginners and retards. You
> won't find better than Office v.X.

That's the kind of helpful aid all discussions need. A program
"designed for retards"? I guess we should be glad they didn't design
it for mongoloids.

Office v.X was apparently designed for geniuses. If your a genius make
you can make something of the billions of programming-bloating options
it has.

--
///---

[jemmy ducks]

In article <2bUSa.101096$wk6.27156@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> ,
<mark@markscoleman.com> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I'm new Mac user (or is the term now "switcher"). I just bought a new
> Powerbook G4 and want to get an office suite. I had a couple of questions
> regarding compatibilty between Office .doc and .xls files and AppleWorks.
> Microsoft charges a bundle for a new Mac Office license, so I'm exploring
> other options. My primary concern is compatbility. Will I be able to
> reliably read/write Office files created in Windows using AppleWorks? I'd be
> interested in user experiences about this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark

Since your primary concern is compatibility, I would recommend Office.
I personally like AppleWorks and use it for just about everything.
However, while the MS Word translators supplied with AW are adequate
for simple Word documents, documents with complex formatting are not
translated properly (even Open Office fails to correctly render some
kinds of formatting (boxes of text, for example)). I cannot speak to
AW's translation of .xls files since I rarely come across them.

[B Collins]

Gregory Weston wrote:

>
> In article <m2y8yrmonq.fsf@qqqq.invalid>, [email]shamino@techie.com[/email] (David C.)
> wrote:
>

> > Mac Link Plus (by DataViz) will convert files between Office and AW
> > format, but the conversions will not be complete. Due to the fact
> > that AW doesn't have as many features as Office, you will lose some
> > stuff (especially embedded objects) in the conversion.
> >

>
> Note especially that multi-sheet spreadsheets are handled in a very
> unpleasant fashion by MacLinkPlus. It builds a single sheet with
> subsequent pages from the original tacked on vertically. Columns widths
> are imposed by the first page.
>
> G

Your note prompted me to check.

Arrgh!!!

Ealrier versions of MPL used to translate multiple Excel worksheets from
the same workbook as separate AW spreadsheets, but MLP 13 does the
strange and unpleasant thing you describe. Is this change a <feature> of
MLP 13???

Bill

[clvrmnky]

Gerry Scott-Moore wrote:

[...]

> Office v.X was apparently designed for geniuses. If your a genius make
> you can make something of the billions of programming-bloating options
> it has.
>

It also seems designed for rich geniuses, as well.

[Tom Harrington]

In article <gJDTa.45479$PD3.4484942@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
clvrmnky <clvrmnky@coldmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Gerry Scott-Moore wrote:
>
> [...]

> > Office v.X was apparently designed for geniuses. If your a genius make
> > you can make something of the billions of programming-bloating options
> > it has.
> >

> It also seems designed for rich geniuses, as well.

Well, given that BillG is a rich guy who thinks he's a genius, I suppose
this is no surprise. :-)

--
Tom "Tom" Harrington
Macaroni, Automated System Maintenance for Mac OS X.
Version 1.4: Best cleanup yet, gets files other tools miss.
See [url]http://www.atomicbird.com/[/url]

[fatman985@hotmail.com]

Randall Ainsworth <rag@nospam.techline.com> wrote in message news:<210720031043384001%rag@nospam.techline.com>. ..

> Appleworks is pretty lame...designed for beginners and retards. You
> won't find better than Office v.X.

Were you one of the designers? You probably meant to say that 'you
can't find anything more bloated than Office v.X.'

[jemmy ducks]

In article <250720030638480842%rag@nospam.techline.com>, Randall
Ainsworth <rag@nospam.techline.com> wrote:

> > Were you one of the designers? You probably meant to say that 'you
> > can't find anything more bloated than Office v.X.'

>
> Let me guess...public schoolteacher?

Now, let me guess: dumb ass?

[ReindeR Rustema]

B Collins <bbcollins@earthlink.net> wrote:

> There are no translators directly to or from PowerPoint as far as I
> know.

Keynote imports from PowerPoint.

> So if you must use PowerPoint, you maust have PowerPoint. Other
> presentation software works very well, but cannot produce PowerPoint
> file. If you can always run a slide show off your own computer, that
> won't be an issue, but if you have to use another computer, that only
> has PowerPoint, then guess what you need.

You can create HTML presentations. Any PC that runs PowerPoint usually
has IE installed as well.

--
ReindeR

[AES/newspost]

> > There are no translators directly to or from PowerPoint as far as I

> > know.

>
> Keynote imports from PowerPoint.
>

> > So if you must use PowerPoint, you maust have PowerPoint. Other
> > presentation software works very well, but cannot produce PowerPoint
> > file. If you can always run a slide show off your own computer, that
> > won't be an issue, but if you have to use another computer, that only
> > has PowerPoint, then guess what you need.

>
> You can create HTML presentations. Any PC that runs PowerPoint usually
> has IE installed as well.

Not to contradict any of the above, but as add'l notes:

1) There is a free downloadable PowerPoint Viewer app for most
platforms.

2) Any program that can create presentations can probably convert them
to PDF, and if not, shareware apps for converting stuff to PDF are
pretty widely available. MOL every computer in the world then has the
free Adobe Acrobat Reader which is an excellent medium for presenting
slide shows.

3) If you acquire the full-bore Adobe Acrobat (not too pricey), even if
you ignore most of its more advanced features you can convert most
anything to PDF, and have excellent tools for duplicating, sorting and
modifying existing slides and presentations, inserting or linking to
movies and images, and so on.

4) PowerPoint is not a bad program, has some handy features for
throwing together a quick presentation.

5) A serious, IMHO fatal flaw, however, is its refusal to handle EPS
files in presentations (which in my paranoid view is a deliberate choice
on the part of MS to undercut PDF and Adobe). Secondary weaknesses are
lingering multi-platform incompatibilities.

Bottom line: If you have any other software to prepare presentations,
you can forget PowerPoint, or at least spend money on Adobe Acrobat
before spending any on PPT.