Professional Web Applications Themes

ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left ,from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab. - Adobe Indesign Windows

Im dealing to import an arabic text in a bilingual publication: spanish and arabic. If anyone could help me to do the best. Thanks. Ana from Argentina...

  1. #1

    Default ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left ,from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Im dealing to import an arabic text in a bilingual publication: spanish and arabic.
    If anyone could help me to do the best.
    Thanks.
    Ana from Argentina
    ANA_FUCHS@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    You need the ID ME edition for that; the standard edition cannot handle RTL-scripts. Look at www.adobeme.com or www.winsoft.fr.

    Teus de Jong
    Teus_de_Jong@adobeforums.com Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    You need to be using InDesign ME. www.winsoft.fr/.

    InDesign is not designed to handle right-to-left languages.
    Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Congratulations, Teus. We posted at precisely the same minute!
    Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Steve, ain't that a coincidence. Must be because I'm typesetting a bible at the moment. :-)

    Teus de Jong
    Teus_de_Jong@adobeforums.com Guest

  6. #6

    Default ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left ,from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Ana

    As Steve and Teus wrote, you need the Middle Eastern edition to get full
    right-to-left support. But if you're willing to go the cheap route (and
    you've got someone who reads Arabic to proofread for you), you can use a
    script to reverse the character order of each line. Olav Kvern posted this a
    while back:

    ----------------------------------------------

    Here's a quick-and-dirty JavaScript that will reverse the order of the
    characters on each line in the selected story.



    //ReverseCharacters.js
    //An InDesign CS JavaScript
    //
    //Reverses the order of the characters in each line of text in the selected
    story.
    //
    var myStory;
    if(app.doents.length != 0){
    if(app.activeDoent.stories.length != 0){
    switch(app.selection[0].constructor.name){
    case "TextFrame":
    case "Text":
    case "InsertionPoint":
    myStory = app.selection[0].parentStory;
    myReverseCharacters(myStory);
    break;
    }
    }
    }
    function myReverseCharacters(myStory){
    var myLine, myTextStyleRange;
    for(var myCounter = myStory.lines.length-1; myCounter >= 0; myCounter --){
    myLine = myStory.lines.item(myCounter);
    if((myLine.characters.item(-1).contents.charAt(0) == "\r")&&(myLine.length >
    1)){
    myLine = myLine.characters.itemByRange(0, -2);
    }
    if(myLine.length > 1){
    myLine.contents = myReverseString(myLine.contents);
    }
    }
    }
    function myReverseString(myString){
    var myReversedString = "";
    for (var myCharacterCounter = myString.length-1; myCharacterCounter >=0;
    myCharacterCounter --){
    myReversedString += myString.charAt(myCharacterCounter);
    }
    return myReversedString;
    }

    To use this script, copy it out of the message and into a text editor
    (Notepad works). Save the file as plain text with the file extension .js to
    the Scripts folder inside the Presets folder inside your InDesign folder (if
    the Scripts folder does not already exist, create it). In InDesign, display
    the Scripts palette. You should see the script you just saved. Select a text
    frame and run the script. InDesign should reverse the order of the
    characters in each line of the story containing the text frame.

    This script doesn't know about text having multiple formats in a line--it'll
    mess those up. But I thought it would demonstrate that you could solve your
    problem with scripting.

    (Also Note: Some Asian languages are--or can be--read right-to-left.)

    Thanks,

    Ole


    Kenneth_Benson@adobeforums.com Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Kenneth,

    For Arab this is a recipe for disaster. This would work for very simple Hebrew (and maybe other RTL) texts, but not for Arab: here almost all characters have different forms depending on the position of the character (standalone, beginning, middle, end). Only programs who support RTL-scripts will use the right ones in the right place. Also, cursivity is missing: the characters are not connected in the right way. And what with required ligatures?

    So Ana, do not try to do it this way, unless only a few simple Arab words are involved.

    Teus de Jong
    Teus_de_Jong@adobeforums.com Guest

  8. #8

    Default ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left ,from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Teus

    I never did anything in Arabic, and my only experience with anything Middle
    Eastern was a book of Hebrew poetry I did this way. Since it was poetry, I
    didn't have to worry about text wrap. I guess I was imagining text supplied
    in Word and just placed in Indesign.

    Wouldn't that solve this problem? I mean, the different character forms
    would already have been chosen by the author in Word, right? Please tell me
    more about cursivity...isn't that more something that would be built into
    the font?

    I don't want to persuade Ana to use the RTL script...I just want to learn.

    Thanks
    Ken Benson


    Kenneth_Benson@adobeforums.com Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Kenneth,

    I am not pretending to be the expert on this. But I did typeset Arab-Dutch and Dutch-Arab dictionaries (together 2200 pages). And at the moment I am typesetting a bilingial edition of Ecclesiastes: Hebrew on the left pages, Dutch translation on the right. Here are some points that are relevant:

    1. As I said, you can do simple Hebrew by reverting characteers. But only if you don't need diacritics and punctuation for vocalization and cantillation (as used in Biblical Hebrew).

    2. A RTL-aware program decides which variant of a letter in Arab must be used at a certain point. It than can use the OT-tables to choose that variant (see 3).

    3. Yes, almost all information is in the OpenType fontinfo, but the application must be able to read this info. E.g. special tables are used to choose the right character in Arab: isol, init, medi and fina. So the text in Word (or ID ME) contains the same unicode for a character; the program chooses via OpenType info the right form. It is obvious this cannot be done if the characters are in reverse order. Also, the program decides if a character is RTL or LTR, which is very important for multilingual publication (as in this case Spanish and Arab): the program changes the text direction where needed. (From this it is obvious where this can go wrong: in places where the text changes from one language to another and a character is used which can belong to both.)

    4. For cursivity the mark and pos tables are used. This makes it possible to attach characters at predefined points. Also, if Arab text is aligned, the letter spacing is not adjusted: a 'line' (kashida) is used to make the character wider.

    5. For characters with a lot of diacritics, lookahead tables are used, e.g. to position diacritics and cantillation marks above and below characters. A program must be able to handle those OT-tables.

    Teus de Jong.
    Teus_de_Jong@adobeforums.com Guest

  10. #10

    Default ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left ,from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    > 2. A RTL-aware program decides which variant of a letter in Arab must be
    used at a certain point. It than can use the OT-tables to choose that
    variant (see 3).


    I'm probably just missing something basic, but in this case (where the user
    is just taking Arabic text from a Word file) wouldn't the variants already
    have been chosen? Isn't Word the "RTL-aware" app here? If you copy a
    paragraph of Arabic text from Word and then paste it in Indesign, do you get
    something different (beside RTL going to LTR)?

    Ken Benson


    Kenneth_Benson@adobeforums.com Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Ken,

    Yes, you are missing something. Word is an RTL-aware app. But this means only that Word chooses the right form of characters in context via the OT-table. The character itself does not change. E.g. in the text is the unicode <0628>, the Arab letter bah. Depending on the context, Word chooses the right form to display and print.

    A simple comparison: if you use an OpenType font with proportionally oldstyle figures in it, ID uses oldstyle figures if you choose that option from the OpenType pallette. But this does not mean it changes the character. If you export to RTF, Word will show you just lining figures.

    Teus de Jong.
    Teus_de_Jong@adobeforums.com Guest

  12. #12

    Default ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left ,from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Thanks for coming down to my level, Teus. This makes sense.

    Ken Benson


    Kenneth_Benson@adobeforums.com Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Thanks to all of you,
    Im specially grateful for your interest.
    I ve got a trial for the Middle East version for 30 days .
    Ive installed the IN DESIGN ME from the website. Everythings OK till that point.
    Again when I want to place the text from the Word.doc. it doesnt recognize one of the fonts in which the doent is written.
    The fonts are a bundle of True Type with this denomination HQPB5, HQPB1, HQPB5. They are specially used to write the Sacred texts.
    Please I need now a little more help to know why the Adobe In Design doesnt recognize a True Type font or in which way I could place this text, perhaps as an image?
    Ana from Argentina
    ANA_FUCHS@adobeforums.com Guest

  14. #14

    Default ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left ,from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    In what way does Indesign "not recognize" this font? Does it give you an
    error message? Are you getting the dreaded pink rectangles? Is it missing?
    Maybe you just don't have it loaded. In the Word file (in Word), go to
    Tools|Options|Compatibility|Font Substitution. Does it show this font as
    being substituted?

    Ken Benson


    Kenneth_Benson@adobeforums.com Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    And if you have the fonts installed, check if they are OpenType or old TrueType fonts. If they are OpenType, you can use the OpenType options of ID ME, otherwise it will be difficult to get all diacritics and other signs in the right place. I'm sorry, but the name of the fonts suggests they are rather amateur-like. (I have never seen those names before, and there are a lot of 'home made' Arabic fonts on the web, mostly made with more religious zeal than technical font knowledge.)

    Teus de Jong
    Teus_de_Jong@adobeforums.com Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Yes indeed
    These fonts are from a program that takes paragraphs from The Holy Quran and puts them in Word. They are really old.
    I only know that this job is possible because I saw the english-arab version of the book, which was made in Lebanon. We cannot afford to do this for our publishing. Anyway, as Im not a professional I ask you to see what we could to do with the Adobe Me. So if I could send you the font and the text, perhaps there is another suggestion you could give to me.
    Thanks
    Ana
    ANA_FUCHS@adobeforums.com Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    I've faced this problem before, but with Farsi, not Arabic. If I recall correctly, I used Pars Negar: I copied text straight out of the application and pasted into ID. Pars Negar, and programs like it, do not rely on Uniscribe or Cooltype or whatever; they insert the correct glyphs (initial/medial/final) and then place it on the clipboard as a LTR string. So, word wrap will be broken, and each line will end with a hard return, but you won't get the problem where every single letter shows up in ID as the isolated form, or where the glyphs are pasted in reverse order.

    I've never used ID ME (my nonprofit can't afford it), so I can't tell you how to get your archaic font working in it. However, if it is a really old font, you might not be able to use it in ID, and finding an application like Pars Negar might do the trick. However, you'll probably have to match the characters one by one to the (wierd, archaic, proprietary) Pars Negar encoding in a font definition file. I'm an old pro at manipulating archaic font encodings, so this looks really easy to me; it might not be.

    If you decide to forego the ID ME route, and you need an application like the one I described, let me know; I might be able to track one down for you.
    Joel_Cherney@adobeforums.com Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Im receiving all the possibilities you could offer in order to get this job done.
    Also Im working for my community and I cannot afford expensive solutions.
    How could I get the "PARS NEGAR"? Let me know, please.

    These fonts which I need to copy are enclosed in an old CD of the Sacred Quran that is distributed in Egypt.
    ANA from Argentina
    ANA_FUCHS@adobeforums.com Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Ana,

    This is the most curious doents and fonts I have ever seen. In the fonts all characters are defined in the private use area. (fontlab even crashed when I loaded one of the fonts.) All characters within a word are left-to-right, but the spaces are right-to-left. Also the paragraph direction must be right-to-left.

    Indesign CS ME will not place the files correctly. However, I have found a workaround for you, but it is quite a hassle.

    1. Place the doent in the normal (English) Indesign. You should see Arabic characters, but in the wrong order. Save this Indesign Doent.

    2. Load the doent in the ME-version of Indesign.

    3. Select the Arabic text.

    4. Replace the spaces in the selection by right to left spaces.

    5. In the Paragraph palette set the paragraph with Arabic text to Right to left direction: the words are reversed now, and the text can be read.

    6. Right align the paragraph.

    This is all I can do.

    Teus de Jong.
    Teus_de_Jong@adobeforums.com Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: ARABIC TEXT , written from right to left, from a Word doc in a bilingual -spanish & arab.

    Ken
    Im just seeing your reply and your answer.
    There were so many messages posted all together that I m just seeing yours right now.
    First of all.
    1 I checked the Word file and the option : font substitution. It says that all the fonts in the doent are available, no need to substitute fonts.

    2- There are indeed some pink rectangles in the InDesign doent but mixed with also other strange characters.What evidences the " dreaded pink rectangles" ?

    The problem is only with those paragraph written in that special font , the "HQPB4.ttf",HQPB1.ttf.These are passages of the Sacred Quran and we are asked to maintain the same font, not to substitute it.

    The rest of the doent is written in Goudy and Traditional Arabic and these paragraphs show everything in order.
    ANA_FUCHS@adobeforums.com Guest

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Arabic Text in Fireworks
    By rachel.alawy webforumsuser@macromedia.com in forum Macromedia Fireworks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 23rd, 01:19 AM
  2. bilingual Full text search
    By uzzu webforumsuser@macromedia.com in forum Macromedia Director Lingo
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: September 2nd, 01:59 PM
  3. Font error in Mac Browsers with Spanish text
    By inquiz-i-tive webforumsuser@macromedia.com in forum Macromedia Flash Sitedesign
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: August 11th, 08:08 PM
  4. arabic text in dreamweaver mx
    By ali in forum Macromedia Dreamweaver
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 29th, 09:45 AM
  5. Further Learning From the Written Word
    By MF06D in forum Photography
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: July 20th, 10:55 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139