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BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR - Macromedia Director 3D

Just one more question, regarding the havok extra, will D11 still support the use of old xtra such as havok? For the Director team, i just want to say thks for the hard work for improving the xtra to support direct x 9.x. I just love to use director. Cheers...

  1. #61

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    Just one more question, regarding the havok extra, will D11 still support the
    use of old xtra such as havok?

    For the Director team, i just want to say thks for the hard work for improving
    the xtra to support direct x 9.x. I just love to use director.

    Cheers

    Aeons Guest

  2. #62

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    > The Shockwave Vista release (with DirectX 7) will be out sooner - in 6 weeks or so.

    There's a new version of SW in the wild: Shockwave 10.2.0.021
    Sean Guest

  3. #63

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    unity 3d

    www.unity3d.com is something you may want to give a try
    tyree_2 Guest

  4. #64

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    Vista has been in development hell for a very long time, and though people have
    slated it, it will quickly become the primary OS, additionally PC manufacturers
    have put it as the key OS on their products, so when people buy a new PC it has
    vista. MS also gave many people who purchased a PC after Oct 06 the chance to
    get vista for about ?15. So many will have a free upgrade or get it on a PC,
    which will mean that the user base will quickly grow. I suspect (and im just
    guessing here - so perhaps im being alittle unfair) that Adobe were probably
    hoping to release the new version which would be all singing and dancing
    support for Vista, but it slipped. The concern here is that if it was released
    where would that have left people with using the MX version. No offence but
    Vista support should have been a priority for the current version. I mean it
    has been available to business's to buy since November and the public at the
    end of January? And available to developers for very much longer. Someone
    seems to have missed the boat alittle?

    It certainly doesnt give me confidence in the support patching process. Would
    they have even created a patch for MX if Version 11 was out? And if they did
    how long would it have taken them? I had a similar problem with Captivate, bugs
    that were never fixed and a new version appears.

    Jason

    http://www.powerusersguide.com
    http://www.makeamazing.com

    jasonrd Guest

  5. #65

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    I went to the Dell website to purchase a new computer and they all have Vista
    as the OS except the gaming rigs. They have a page that compares vista to XP
    and asks which one would you want. It shows Vista as having all the features
    and XP as having none or partial of the listed features. (very skewed)
    Clearly, they are working with Microsoft to push Vista big time.

    Point is, I have a product that is going to be released to the retail channel
    in August and for it not to support Vista would be quite a problem. I'm
    imagining a lot of consumers purchasing the product without noting on the
    requirements that Vista is not listed. This means a lot of returns.

    I really need a way to have Director's 3D "engine" support Vista. The new
    shockwave player is supposed to support Vista but that doesn't seem to apply to
    apps written specifically under Director as Director always is forced to
    software rendering mode under Vista.

    Any thoughts on forcing Director to use this new shockwave player?

    cratica Guest

  6. #66

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    [q]Originally posted by: jasonrd
    No offence but Vista support should have been a priority for the current
    version. I mean it has been available to business's to buy since November and
    the public at the end of January? ][/q]

    I don't think so.
    Windows Vista is not an option on 2007. Just wait for SP1 or (better) SP2.
    Microsoft is dealing with a neverending list of incompatibilities and
    complaints.
    Also try to remember: over 60% Win98-SE users at the end of 2002!!!
    Now coming back to ADOBE, they (should) have two priorities for the next
    release:
    1) the current shockwave plugin is more than buggy (!?!)
    2) DX9 support

    cheers


    necromanthus Guest

  7. #67

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    I can only assume Director/Shockwave is on a death spiral.

    This is why I say this:
    - shockwave 3d does not work in Vista
    - shockwave 3d has not been improved since Director 8.5 many many years ago
    - shockwave 3d has been downgraded since 8.5 with the removal of Havok
    - shockwave 3d never had a stable physics engine, because Havok is buggy and
    always was
    - Havok makes MX2004 crash
    - authors can no longer get the tools to make shockwave safe Xtra's (like the
    ODE physics xtra)
    - message boards claim there will be ZERO 3d enhancement to the next Director
    release
    - message boards claim the next Director release is about exporting mobile
    apps not improving web apps

    So basically Director is 6-7 year old technology (but costs a lot to purchase).
    Flash on the other hand has been improved many times in the last several years.
    In fact the action script code is 10 times faster in the latest Flash!

    Obviously Macromedia/Adobe do not care much about Shockwave technology.

    So why should we stick with it Adobe?

    Jmvr Guest

  8. #68

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    [q]Originally posted by: Jmvr

    - shockwave 3d does not work in Vista
    - message boards claim there will be ZERO 3d enhancement to the next Director
    release[/q]

    shockwave 3d does work in vista. it always did, at least for me. but it was
    horribly slow. luckily the just released player has fixed that speed problem.
    again, at least for me. i am still having some bugs though to an extent when
    switching renderers.

    it is true that there is only one 3d feature planned for the next release, the
    ability to use dx9. that releas should be within the next six months. the new
    head director guy (don't remember his name) intimated that the release after
    that will have new 3d stuff. who knows. at any rate it'll have taken about ten
    years since 3d came to director for them to seriously upgrade it.

    is director dying? i dunno. i sure as hell hope not, i'm pushing for some new
    projects work w/ shockwave 3d at the heart. even with no new features since
    it's debut shockwave 3d is still the best solution i've found for 3d on the web.


    Ex Guest

  9. #69

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    [q]Originally posted by: Ex Malterra

    it is true that there is only one 3d feature planned for the next release, the
    ability to use dx9. that releas should be within the next six months. the new
    head director guy (don't remember his name) intimated that the release after
    that will have new 3d stuff. who knows. at any rate it'll have taken about ten
    years since 3d came to director for them to seriously upgrade it.

    is director dying? i dunno. i sure as hell hope not, i'm pushing for some new
    projects work w/ shockwave 3d at the heart. even with no new features since
    it's debut shockwave 3d is still the best solution i've found for 3d on the web.
    [/q]
    DX9 is no small upgrade if they are indeed able to pull it off. It includes
    shader model 2.0 which will make next gen techniques possible in director
    (normal maps, HDRI, geometry caching on the graphics card, full screen
    antialias). I am impressed that they fixed the shockwave playback on vista, but
    projectors are still kaput on Vista unless you use a shockwave stub projector.
    The biggest thing though is that dx9 should give a serious frames per sec boost
    to director's 3d renderer. I am also wondering what will happen to the w3d
    format since many vendors have dropped support for it. WIll Director import fbx
    or dae files instead? These formats are great but are not web friendly



    _eyesonly Guest

  10. #70

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    Hi all,

    If anyone has seen any of my responses on previous threads on the topic of
    Director's future, you may have read something to the effect that I had spoken to
    members of the Adobe Director management team and they had indicated that there
    would be some official news/communication posted to the public regarding Director.

    When I wrote those responses, I was getting positive indications from Adobe that it
    would happen. Unfortunately, after much encouragement (and pleading), it appears
    there won't be an Adobe voice in this forum at least in the short term.

    So, I'll try respond to things in my limited capacity.
     

    This has been said for quite some time and very much during the Macromedia days. Why
    do people question Director's future? My guess is it's because:
    1. Macromedia neglected Director - badly maintained existing features and did not
    extend and develop new ones.
    2. Key features like 3D were ignored in subsequent versions.
    3. Macromedia focussed their attention on other products (like F...) and did not
    give Director the resources it needed to grow and flourish.
    4. Last version was back in....
    5. Marketing of Director has been very bad.

    So, what had happened now that Adobe has taken over.
    * Well, they've made a public announcement on a Director FAQ page to let the
    community know that a new version is being worked on and have given an indication of
    features and a release period.
    http://www.adobe.com/products/director/special/crossproduct/faq.html

    I believe the above news was vital for Adobe to reassure the public that Director is
    still part of the company's development plans. So, at least they realise this.

    * There is work on a new version of Director - taking Adobe on their word as
    outlined in the FAQ.

    * A new Shockwave has been released to deal with Vista issues.
    Shockwave alone isn't what's going to keep Director alive, new versions are what's
    needed. But at least there is an effort to bring Shockwave up to speed with current
    operating systems.

    As I said, Macromedia left Adobe with a product with huge maintenance requirements.
    Now 2 new Operating Systems have come about and much work is required to get
    Director compatible for today's configurations. So, with all that work, they just
    don't have the time to do significant feature updates (like a 3D engine upgrade).

    So, we've seen 2 steps from Adobe. Not a huge leap., They are still pretty bad at
    engaging with the community. And they have a lot to do to prove their intentions and
    earn the respect of the community.
     

    While Macromedia did not do all what we wanted for Shockwave, I still think they
    cared about Shockwave. They may have put more emphasis on that other technology. We
    can't say that Adobe are at that in the non caring frame of mind. If they were, they
    would have dismantled all development on Director and not bothered with any
    Shockwave updates.
     

    Director is still a powerful tool. Give Adobe the chance to prove themselves. Let's
    see what they offer in the next Adobe Director. My hope is that they are creating
    the foundations for significant feature developments in subsequent versions. I
    realise you can't stick with a product on hope alone. However, we can't judge Adobe
    without giving them time to show what they're willing to do. So, watch as the time
    draws closer for the release of Adobe Director and let's see how they market and
    communicate their long term plans.

    That's all from me.

    regards
    Dean

    Director Lecturer / Consultant / Director Enthusiast
    http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/learning/director
    http://www.multimediacreative.com.au
    email: edu.au

    Dean Guest

  11. #71

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    1) My understanding is that all Adobe is doing is making Shockwave work under
    DirectX 9. They are not adding any DirectX 9 features. All they are doing is
    not killing it .... for Vista.

    2) Adobe is stopping a developer on this forum from making a signed Shockwave
    safe 3D physics Xtra for Shockwave. There is no excuse for this. It costs
    Adobe nothing and no self respecting 3D game developer would not want a
    "workable & supported" 3D physics engine for $29.

    3) I think the only reason Director 3d has not died is .... it has been
    updading itself ... meaning that because every year the users machines have
    more 3D power ... we can do more with the almost a decade old 8.5 3D engine.

    4) I want to continue working with Director. But it does not seem fair that
    Adobe does not tell us why we should (before it is a decade old!). So I am
    forced to explore alternatives like Unity3D or Virtools.

    Jmvr Guest

  12. #72

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    "we can do more with the almost a decade old 8.5 3D engine."

    6 years != 10 years
    mockworld Guest

  13. #73

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    Hi Jmvr,
     

    Which is a cost for Adobe and an investment of their resources.

    I said Adobe are not making giant leaps but rather small steps. At least the steps
    are in the right direction.
     

    The issue is not as simple as you have it. The development kit that allows signed
    Xtras is not available at this time. Perhaps Adobe are attempting to get the new
    version that supports Vista and MacIntel out so that Xtra developers can have an
    updated kit rather than something would be buggy in a few months when the new one
    becomes available.

    Unfortunately for Mike (of Physics Xtra), he developed this product during a major
    transition phase - between Macromedia - Adobe and a change of support of Director
    to 2 new Operating Systems. Once we are through this stage, hopefully Mike and
    other Xtra developers will be in a much stronger position to develop for Director.
     

    Adobe have announced that they intend to develop Director in the future.

    A while back, I ran a Director survey about top feature requests by the community.
    Not surprising, 3D engine and other 3D updates were on the top. I shared this with
    Adobe and they were very appreciative of the information and indicated they were
    keen to address community concerns. So, to me, it appears they intend to develop
    3D.

    I'm expecting that around the time Director is released, Adobe will give clearer
    indications about what they intend to do with the product moving into the future.
    If they don't, then you can start questioning Adobe's commitment to Director and
    its viability for you.

    regards
    Dean

    Director Lecturer / Consultant / Director Enthusiast
    http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/learning/director
    http://www.multimediacreative.com.au
    email: edu.au

    Dean Guest

  14. #74

    Default Re: BAD NEWS WITH VISTA/DIRECTOR

    I don't know if this has been posted before here or if this works (I
    haven't upgraded to Vista) but I found this on the Hopper list
    regarding Vista and Director 3D:

    Although i've not got a Vista machine to test on, my thoughts on the
    problems from what others have written were that there were two issues
    with
    vista

    The main one being that SW and projectors store the 3D settings
    (preferred
    API etc) in the registry and for some reasonn this was getting messed
    up or
    not read or something on Vista, meaning you'd often fall back in
    software
    mode

    The second issue being that even when you do get sw/projectors to give
    you
    directx or openGL some 3D card drivers arn't up to scratch. Of course
    there
    is nothing you can do in this case.

    Anyway Nick Kang wrote a very indepth email on dir3d a month or so
    back, I'm
    not sure if he's on Hopper, so i'll repost it here. I think he posted
    some
    more information recently though.

    Noisecrime 2007



    Basically you need to set two keys in the registry, either by
    selecting "Always Use Hardware - DirectX 7" in the Shockwave context
    menu.
    Or by setting the registry values directly. These are the keys you
    need to
    touch:

    -- begin file: SW3D_AlwaysUseHardware_DirectX7.reg --
    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Macromedia\Shockwave 10\renderer3dsetting]
    ="4"
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Macromedia\Shockwave
    10\renderer3dsettingPerm]
    ="4"
    -- end file: SW3D_AlwaysUseHardware_DirectX7.reg --

    Cut and paste this into an file named as specified, then double-click
    to
    execute the update. Or do this on the command line for a silent
    update:
    regedit /s SW3D_AlwaysUseHardware_DirectX7.reg

    Here's a zip with reg files for all 5 modes (useful way to quickly
    switch
    renderers when debugging):
    http://rasterwerks.com/game/tool/SW3D_3DRendererSettings_RegFiles.zip

    For SW games that use the right mousebutton, the context menu must be
    disabled, so here is my temporary solution:
    http://rasterwerks.com/game/tool/swdiag.htm
    source file:
    http://rasterwerks.com/game/tool/swdiag.zip
    The detection between "Obey Content Settings" and the "Always Use
    Hardware"
    modes is done by brute force (setting getRendererServices().renderer
    and
    seeing if it sticks). So if there's a nicer method, let me know,
    because it
    causes the secondary monitors to flicker on my dev box.

    For an executable, you can have the installer app update these keys,
    or just
    have the game do it. Noisecrime mentions using two executables
    because the
    update to the registry must be done before Shockwave 3D Asset.x32 is
    loaded.
    For example, in the game app, you can test for Vista:

    if offset("Windows,6", _system.environmentPropList.osVersion) > 0 then
    -- OS is Vista
    -- use an Xtra (Enhancer, BuddyAPI, etc) to update registry keys
    -- changes will take effect on next run, so...
    -- prompt user to quit and restart (might be able to automate this)
    end if

    Another thing to keep in mind, you can create these registry keys even
    if
    Shockwave is NOT installed on the target machine, because the
    Projector EXE
    will look for these values ANYWAYS (yeah, pretty silly, eh?). If
    these
    values don't exist, the EXE behaves as if the preferred renderer is
    set to
    #auto, which under Vista always results in #software.

    Finally, in authoring, you have to set the "Preferred 3D Renderer" to
    "DirectX7" also. Director will display a warning dialog (luckily only
    once
    per session), but other than that, it works fine for development.
    Overall,
    I like Vista. Ignore the nice eye candy and there are a lot of
    useability
    improvements. Just make sure you turn off the UAC (there's a script
    in
    msconfig for toggling this), this is the OS nanny that slaps your hand
    every
    time you do something that might affect the system (even if you have
    admin
    privileges).

    contempt Guest

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