bordercolor and cells in dw8

[andywc]

hi

very very novice user here...

i've been using dw4 for some years and dw8 for a few months. all going well
until today...

site is at [url]www.rivergate.org.uk[/url]

i'm using cells with bordercolor. until today this seemed to work fine, now on
changing layout around slightly it's developed these ugly grids of cells around
the page. i also notice that i can't find the bordercolor properties in the
design view; i see that i can type these in the code view.

i recognise that perhaps NS doesn't support bordercolor, but all has worked
fine for me on IE till today, using dw8 i've made a number of alterations over
recent months without these grids of boxes appearing.

i'm confused as to how i've broken the page

please can someone help with some basic and non technical advice

thank you

andrew

[andywc]

hi again

update

i still don't know why it's started doing it or adding the border, but it
seems to remove the border if i delete the " " that IT places in the cell.

i've been able to move cells and frame in design view for some months without
issue, why has this started to happen now...

clearly something that i've done... but i'm lost as to what

please can someone help, also about bordercolor

[Murray *ACE*]

> i still don't know why it's started doing it or adding the border, but it

> seems to remove the border if i delete the " " that IT places in the
> cell.

That's because a browser doesn't render background colors or borders on
empty table cells. DW places   in all table cells when you first
insert it to avoid exactly this problem. It also obligingly removes that
non-breaking space as soon as you insert any content into the cell.

> please can someone help, also about bordercolor

bordercolor is invalid HTML. It is IE proprietary, and will not appear in
any modern browser. If you need borders to be colored reliably, you will
need to use CSS to accomplish that.

> i've been able to move cells and frame in design view for some months
> without
> issue, why has this started to happen now...

This is the purgatory that those who do not know HTML are condemned to. The
candid answer is that using the design view to move things around is just
not the right way to work with HTML and web pages. If you are serious about
doing this, you should seriously begin learning at least the basic concepts
of HTML and CSS.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"andywc" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:eis6is$rc3$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> hi again
>
> update
>
> i still don't know why it's started doing it or adding the border, but it
> seems to remove the border if i delete the "&nbsp;" that IT places in the
> cell.
>
> i've been able to move cells and frame in design view for some months
> without
> issue, why has this started to happen now...
>
> clearly something that i've done... but i'm lost as to what
>
> please can someone help, also about bordercolor
>

[Murray *ACE*]

You can get rid of that border by changing this -

<table width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#999999" cellspacing="0">
<!--DWLayoutTable-->

to this -

<table width="100%" border="0" bordercolor="#999999" cellspacing="0">
<!--DWLayoutTable-->

and by the way, you should add cellpadding="0" to the table tag so that you
control that variable as well.

One other comment - DW's Layout Mode will kill you. It creates VERY fragile
and monolithic table structures that are filled with col- and rowspans,
causing them to break at the slightest provocation. To read some about how
this happens, go here -

[url]http://apptools.com/rants/spans.php[/url]

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
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==================


"andywc" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:eis3ra$mjl$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> hi
>
> very very novice user here...
>
> i've been using dw4 for some years and dw8 for a few months. all going
> well
> until today...
>
> site is at [url]www.rivergate.org.uk[/url]
>
> i'm using cells with bordercolor. until today this seemed to work fine,
> now on
> changing layout around slightly it's developed these ugly grids of cells
> around
> the page. i also notice that i can't find the bordercolor properties in
> the
> design view; i see that i can type these in the code view.
>
> i recognise that perhaps NS doesn't support bordercolor, but all has
> worked
> fine for me on IE till today, using dw8 i've made a number of alterations
> over
> recent months without these grids of boxes appearing.
>
> i'm confused as to how i've broken the page
>
> please can someone help with some basic and non technical advice
>
> thank you
>
> andrew
>

[andywc]

hi

thank you for your two replies

so the summary is that DW doesn't make very good HTML which breaks easily and
that I need to learn HTML and write it by hand.

err...

anyway, so why did i buy DW, or GO Live of Front Page etc...

sigh!

i want the outline around the major box, but not those intermediate boxes. in
fact very similar to this page here... that we're reading and typing into
now... just coincidence...

it's bizzare that it's just started doing it despite all the changes i have
made over the months, and that it only does it to the elements i change now;
those i don't touch don't break...

i see that in some "cells" DW hasn't inserted the &nbsp. but where i've moved
a table/cell it's now decided to insert this.... is there any way of turning
this off, so it doesn't try and insert the &nbsp; ie how it's been working
quite fine for the last 6 months or so? clearly i've changed a setting
somewhere??

thank you

andrew

[Murray *ACE*]

> so the summary is that DW doesn't make very good HTML which breaks easily

> and
> that I need to learn HTML and write it by hand.

No, the summary is that Layout mode, in DW, doesn't make very good HTML.

> anyway, so why did i buy DW, or GO Live of Front Page etc...

Because of the many other conveniences that they do exceptionally well -
link management, site management, CSS management, server compatability,
built-in behaviors, etc., etc., etc. Further, when you know which features
to avoid using (Layout mode is at the top of the list, followed by pop-up
menus, convert layers/tables, and a few others), you will usually produce
valid and usable code out of the box.

> it's bizzare that it's just started doing it despite all the changes i
> have
> made over the months, and that it only does it to the elements i change
> now;
> those i don't touch don't break...

The reason is clear when you look at the code. It's the border attribute on
the inner table. How this happened to arise in your workflow is a question
I cannot answer.

> i see that in some "cells" DW hasn't inserted the &nbsp. but where i've
> moved
> a table/cell it's now decided to insert this.... is there any way of
> turning
> this off, so it doesn't try and insert the &nbsp; ie how it's been working
> quite fine for the last 6 months or so? clearly i've changed a setting
> somewhere??

I don't think so. DW will do this automatically, and it does it for the
reasons I have described. It's not the source of your problems. Your
comment that when you remove it, you don't see the borders is simply a
description of a browser feature not to render background colors or borders
on empty cells. It's not a solution to your problem.

> clearly i've changed a setting
> somewhere??

There is no such setting.

I know this is a harsh indictment of DW's Layout mode. But if you search
this forum for those very terms, you will see hundreds if not thousands of
instances of people who have been led astray by it. It's not my intention
to be critical, and I really believe that to use DW effectively, you MUST
learn some HTML and CSS.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
[url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
[url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
[url]http://www.dwfaq.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
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==================


"andywc" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:eislgb$epm$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> hi
>
> thank you for your two replies
>
> so the summary is that DW doesn't make very good HTML which breaks easily
> and
> that I need to learn HTML and write it by hand.
>
> err...
>
> anyway, so why did i buy DW, or GO Live of Front Page etc...
>
> sigh!
>
> i want the outline around the major box, but not those intermediate boxes.
> in
> fact very similar to this page here... that we're reading and typing into
> now... just coincidence...
>
> it's bizzare that it's just started doing it despite all the changes i
> have
> made over the months, and that it only does it to the elements i change
> now;
> those i don't touch don't break...
>
> i see that in some "cells" DW hasn't inserted the &nbsp. but where i've
> moved
> a table/cell it's now decided to insert this.... is there any way of
> turning
> this off, so it doesn't try and insert the &nbsp; ie how it's been working
> quite fine for the last 6 months or so? clearly i've changed a setting
> somewhere??
>
> thank you
>
> andrew
>

[KenRogers2]

Highlight all the cells in the same row before and after.
Right click to get the Tables menu
Delete row