Breezy vs Dapper

[Mark Allread]

Hi from a complete newbie.

I've installed Breezy but cannot access the internet via dialup using my
winmodem. I've attempted to follow the instructions in various places
but am finding it hard to break the windoze habits I've gotten into.

So, the question is, will Dapper have drivers for winmodems when it is
released properly and will I be able to do a straightforward install
over Breezy and have it pick up everyhting in the same way as windoze
does?

Once I've got it working properly I can then start to experiment with it
and start to 'learn linux'
--
Mark

[Gordon]

Mark Allread wrote:

> Hi from a complete newbie.
>
> I've installed Breezy but cannot access the internet via dialup using my
> winmodem. I've attempted to follow the instructions in various places
> but am finding it hard to break the windoze habits I've gotten into.

get yourself on Broadband with a router ASAP! It'll solve more than just the
winmodem problem!

--
Gordon Burgess-Parker
Interim Systems and Management Accounting
[url]www.gbpcomputing.co.uk[/url]

[Gregg Fowler]

On Mon, 08 May 2006 13:29:08 -0500, Mark Allread <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> Hi from a complete newbie.
>
> I've installed Breezy but cannot access the internet via dialup using my
> winmodem. I've attempted to follow the instructions in various places
> but am finding it hard to break the windoze habits I've gotten into.
>
> So, the question is, will Dapper have drivers for winmodems when it is
> released properly and will I be able to do a straightforward install
> over Breezy and have it pick up everyhting in the same way as windoze
> does?
>
> Once I've got it working properly I can then start to experiment with it
> and start to 'learn linux'

I am also fairly new to linux (mid-January). I also don't use dial-up so
haven't experienced the winmodem "problem". It is my understanding however
that they are a difficult task for any linux distribution to handle and I
doubt straightforward. Hardware modems are much easier to install from
what I understand. I hope someone can give you some help with this task. I
will say this, that if it comes down to having to invest in a different
modem, it would well be worth it. I can never see myself going back to
windows. It is a shame you don't have or can't get broadband. Breezy or
Dapper are great with my cable modem. Good luck with your task. Just
thought I would jump in while you are waiting for a real answer. :-)

Gregg

[Sebastian Stein]

Mark Allread <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> So, the question is, will Dapper have drivers for winmodems when it is
> released properly and will I be able to do a straightforward install
> over Breezy and have it pick up everyhting in the same way as windoze
> does?

No, it is not sure. You should search the internet for the name of your
winmodem or your laptop name with model number. Probably you will find already
postings dealing with your special kind of hardware and Linux support. It might
be that you need some kind of external modules to enable the support. It is
very unlikely that the next ubuntu release will contain those modules by
default.


Sebastian

[Sebastian Stein]

Gordon <gordon@gbpcomputing.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> get yourself on Broadband with a router ASAP! It'll solve more than just the
> winmodem problem!

Man, did you ever thought about that there might be people not having access to
fast internet connections? Not everybody is living in a developed country and
may not have enough money for that purpose. Also, a modem connection is still
useful, if you travel a lot and need a quick email check during your travels.


Sebastian

[Michael B. Trausch]

Sebastian Stein wrote in <rek5j3-bca.ln1@ID-116864.user.uni-berlin.de> on
Tue May 9 2006 01:03:

> Gordon <gordon@gbpcomputing.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

>> get yourself on Broadband with a router ASAP! It'll solve more than just
>> the winmodem problem!

>
> Man, did you ever thought about that there might be people not having
> access to fast internet connections? Not everybody is living in a
> developed country and may not have enough money for that purpose. Also, a
> modem connection is still useful, if you travel a lot and need a quick
> email check during your travels.
>

The reason that broadband has propagated so much is due to the standards
that it encompasses. That having been said, the *best* way around this
problem is to not use a "winmodem" at all. Winmodems are not standard
modems; the hardware is just enough to interface with the PSTN/POTS; the
rest is done in software (the "modem" part). Because each one of these may
have a different interface for the software to "hook" into, they are
problematic. Also, because they do not have their own hardware-driven
logic to do the modulation/demodulation of the signal, they use CPU time on
the system. For a reasonably high-end system, this may not impact you
much; however, it's is much better to get a real hardware modem and just
use that.

The real hardware modems just present a standard serial interface that the
operating system can use and send regular commands to, for establishing
connections and the like, and they work a world better then the winmodems.
If you absolutely *must* use a winmodem, good luck and I do hope you find
the help that you need; I've avoided using them entirely because of the
problems that they pose.

In all likelihood, you can find an external modem that is most definitely
not a software-based modem if you look around the local used computer parts
stores.

- Mike

[Sebastian Stein]

Michael B. Trausch <michael.trausch.no.spam@comcast.net> wrote:

> In all likelihood, you can find an external modem that is most definitely
> not a software-based modem if you look around the local used computer parts
> stores.

I know how a softmodem works. The poster however pointed out that the OP should
get a "broadband" connection "ASAP". I'm challenging that point, nothing else.


Sebastian

[Mark Allread]

In article <UZqdnYldb-KsJcLZRVnyhg@eclipse.net.uk>, Gordon says...

> Mark Allread wrote:
>

> > Hi from a complete newbie.
> >
> > I've installed Breezy but cannot access the internet via dialup using my
> > winmodem. I've attempted to follow the instructions in various places
> > but am finding it hard to break the windoze habits I've gotten into.

>
> get yourself on Broadband with a router ASAP! It'll solve more than just the
> winmodem problem!

Thak you for that very helpful suggestion. Now, if the exchange is
around 6 miles away and is not enabled, nor is it likely to be, what
cost effective way of getting BB do you recommend please?
--
Mark

[Mark Allread]

In article <796dndELkuE5yv3ZRVn-uw@comcast.com>, Michael B. Trausch
says...

>
> The real hardware modems just present a standard serial interface that the
> operating system can use and send regular commands to, for establishing
> connections and the like, and they work a world better then the winmodems.
> If you absolutely *must* use a winmodem, good luck and I do hope you find
> the help that you need; I've avoided using them entirely because of the
> problems that they pose.
>
> In all likelihood, you can find an external modem that is most definitely
> not a software-based modem if you look around the local used computer parts
> stores.
>

Thanks Mike - it looks as if external modem is going to be the quickest,
and easiest, solution.

--
Mark

[Mark Allread]

In article <op.s8842nb9ch40gf@localhost.localdomain>, Gregg Fowler
says...

> On Mon, 08 May 2006 13:29:08 -0500, Mark Allread <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>

> > Hi from a complete newbie.
> >
> > So, the question is, will Dapper have drivers for winmodems when it is
> > released properly and will I be able to do a straightforward install
> > over Breezy and have it pick up everyhting in the same way as windoze
> > does?
> >

>
> I am also fairly new to linux (mid-January). I also don't use dial-up so
> haven't experienced the winmodem "problem". It is my understanding however
> that they are a difficult task for any linux distribution to handle and I
> doubt straightforward.

Yup.

Hardware modems are much easier to install from

> what I understand. I hope someone can give you some help with this task. I
> will say this, that if it comes down to having to invest in a different
> modem, it would well be worth it.

Looks like another yup

I can never see myself going back to

> windows. It is a shame you don't have or can't get broadband. Breezy or
> Dapper are great with my cable modem. Good luck with your task. Just
> thought I would jump in while you are waiting for a real answer. :-)
>

Hey, I'll talk to anybody :@)

--
Mark

[Mark Allread]

In article <oak5j3-pba.ln1@ID-116864.user.uni-berlin.de>, Sebastian
Stein says...

> Mark Allread <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> > So, the question is, will Dapper have drivers for winmodems when it is
> > released properly and will I be able to do a straightforward install
> > over Breezy and have it pick up everyhting in the same way as windoze
> > does?

>
> No, it is not sure. You should search the internet for the name of your
> winmodem or your laptop name with model number. Probably you will find already
> postings dealing with your special kind of hardware and Linux support. It might
> be that you need some kind of external modules to enable the support. It is
> very unlikely that the next ubuntu release will contain those modules by
> default.
>

All righty - it looks like an external modem is down on the shopping
list
--
Mark

[Gordon]

Mark Allread wrote:

> In article <UZqdnYldb-KsJcLZRVnyhg@eclipse.net.uk>, Gordon says...

>> Mark Allread wrote:
>>

>> > Hi from a complete newbie.
>> >
>> > I've installed Breezy but cannot access the internet via dialup using
>> > my
>> > winmodem. I've attempted to follow the instructions in various places
>> > but am finding it hard to break the windoze habits I've gotten into.

>>
>> get yourself on Broadband with a router ASAP! It'll solve more than just
>> the winmodem problem!

>
> Thak you for that very helpful suggestion. Now, if the exchange is
> around 6 miles away and is not enabled, nor is it likely to be, what
> cost effective way of getting BB do you recommend please?

So next time give us ALL the information!

--
Gordon Burgess-Parker
Interim Systems and Management Accounting
[url]www.gbpcomputing.co.uk[/url]

[Mark Allread]

In article <rqydnWF4z95th__ZnZ2dnUVZ8qKdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk >, Gordon
says...

> Mark Allread wrote:
>

> > In article <UZqdnYldb-KsJcLZRVnyhg@eclipse.net.uk>, Gordon says...

> >> Mark Allread wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi from a complete newbie.
> >> >
> >> > I've installed Breezy but cannot access the internet via dialup using
> >> > my
> >> > winmodem. I've attempted to follow the instructions in various places
> >> > but am finding it hard to break the windoze habits I've gotten into.
> >>
> >> get yourself on Broadband with a router ASAP! It'll solve more than just
> >> the winmodem problem!

> >
> > Thak you for that very helpful suggestion. Now, if the exchange is
> > around 6 miles away and is not enabled, nor is it likely to be, what
> > cost effective way of getting BB do you recommend please?

>
> So next time give us ALL the information!
>

I did. The fact that you seem to have a comprehension problem is yours,
not mine. Read again what I said "cannot access the internet via
dialup". No where did I mention BB; you raised it to avoid answering a
question to which you obviously had no solution but felt that you just
had to say something.
--
Mark

[Bud]

Mark Allread wrote:

[about win modem]

You could add the driver for your win modem, for now.
[url]http://linmodems.org/[/url]
--
An English judge, growing weary of the barrister's long-winded
summation, leaned over the bench and remarked, "I've heard your
arguments, Sir Geoffrey, and I'm none the wiser!" Sir Geoffrey
responded, "That may be, Milord, but at least you're better informed!"

[Mark Allread]

In article <slrne651se.30g.bud@darkstar.example.net>, Bud says...

> Mark Allread wrote:
>
> [about win modem]
>
> You could add the driver for your win modem, for now.
> [url]http://linmodems.org/[/url]
>

Thanks. I identified the chipset some time ago as Intel536ep and looked
at both the Intel site and Linmodems but had problems in identifying
which of he 24 different Linux drivers were needed for Ubuntu as Debian
is not mentioned.

I decided that if that was going to confuse me then a lot of handholding
would be needed to then get the right driver 'installed' and recognised.
--
Mark

[Mark Allread]

In article <MPG.1ecc720b2180f9a98968e@news.readfreenews.net >, Mark
Allread says...

> In article <slrne651se.30g.bud@darkstar.example.net>, Bud says...

> > Mark Allread wrote:
> >
> > [about win modem]
> >
> > You could add the driver for your win modem, for now.
> > [url]http://linmodems.org/[/url]
> >

> Thanks. I identified the chipset some time ago as Intel536ep and looked
> at both the Intel site and Linmodems but had problems in identifying
> which of he 24 different Linux drivers were needed for Ubuntu as Debian
> is not mentioned.
>
> I decided that if that was going to confuse me then a lot of handholding
> would be needed to then get the right driver 'installed' and recognised.
>

Ooops - forgot to mention I also look at the Ubuntu wiki and am still
little the wiser. It all looks too complicated for a complete newbie
who just wnats to get the thing working before he risks screwing the
thing completely by playing.

The wiki is clearly for someone with a degree of knowledge and not a
total beginner.
--
Mark

[Egon Spengler]

On Wed, 10 May 2006 22:57:00 +0100, Mark Allread wrote:

> Thanks. I identified the chipset some time ago as Intel536ep and looked
> at both the Intel site and Linmodems but had problems in identifying
> which of he 24 different Linux drivers were needed for Ubuntu as Debian
> is not mentioned.
>
> I decided that if that was going to confuse me then a lot of handholding
> would be needed to then get the right driver 'installed' and recognised.

I just hit the linmodems.org site, and then followed a link to grab the
drivers for the 2.6.x kernel (which is Ubuntu's kernel). It requires that
you have "build-essential" installed, and then that you compile the driver
for yourself. The file contains an 18K readme about what to do, and says
it will work with debian (and should do debian-based as well), you could
use it on Ubuntu, but getting the "build-essential" stuff via dial-up
could be quite a long process.

[Mark Allread]

In article <pan.2006.05.11.18.10.34.627913@localhost.localdom ain>, Egon
Spengler says...

> On Wed, 10 May 2006 22:57:00 +0100, Mark Allread wrote:
>

> > Thanks. I identified the chipset some time ago as Intel536ep and looked
> > at both the Intel site and Linmodems but had problems in identifying
> > which of he 24 different Linux drivers were needed for Ubuntu as Debian
> > is not mentioned.
> >
> > I decided that if that was going to confuse me then a lot of handholding
> > would be needed to then get the right driver 'installed' and recognised.

>
> I just hit the linmodems.org site, and then followed a link to grab the
> drivers for the 2.6.x kernel (which is Ubuntu's kernel). It requires that
> you have "build-essential" installed, and then that you compile the driver
> for yourself. The file contains an 18K readme about what to do, and says
> it will work with debian (and should do debian-based as well), you could
> use it on Ubuntu, but getting the "build-essential" stuff via dial-up
> could be quite a long process.
>

Thank you. Apart from the time takem to download I honestly think it is
beyond me, at this satge, to try and compile a driver. It is in this
respect that any *nix type distro has a long way to go. When it is
fully 'out of the box' it will take off, until then, well, its steep
learning curve that most will not bother with and it seems I may be once
of the most.
--
Mark

[Jes Vestervang]

Mark Allread <me@privacy.net> writes:

> When it is fully 'out of the box' it will take off, until then,
> well, its steep learning curve that most will not bother with and it
> seems I may be once of the most.

I don't think you are being fair in your criticism. The fact that it
is a winmodem implies quite heavily that it is made for MS Windows,
not anything else. If you had just bought an ordinary modem you would
have no problems at all (well, except the speed ;-)).

I know it is not easy to find laptops with real modems (at all) but
that is the fault of the hardware supplier (unwillingness to provide
documentation etc., they don't have to code a driver themselves).
--
Regards Jes Vestervang

[Simon Jones]

On Thu, 11 May 2006 22:37:15 +0100, Mark mumbled:

> Thank you. Apart from the time takem to download I honestly think it is
> beyond me, at this satge, to try and compile a driver. It is in this
> respect that any *nix type distro has a long way to go. When it is
> fully 'out of the box' it will take off, until then, well, its steep
> learning curve that most will not bother with and it seems I may be once
> of the most.

This has nothing to with Linux or Ubuntu, it is the manufacturer of your
modem. If you want to use Linux, but can't, the least you can do is email
the manufacturer and complain.
--
Simon.
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