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Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB - ASP

EEEEEK HTTP is the Wrong technology for that. You should look at FTP for that size. The transmission is never going to be stable long enough for that to flow though. -- ---------------------------------------------------------- Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com) Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url] --------------------------------------------------------- ...Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone... --------------------------------------------------------- "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an ASP running > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large? > > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library indicates > that Request.TotalBytes ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    EEEEEK
    HTTP is the Wrong technology for that. You should look at FTP for that size.
    The transmission is never going to be stable long enough for that to flow
    though.


    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com)
    Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software
    [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url]
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    ...Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone...
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an ASP
    running
    > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large?
    >
    > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library indicates
    > that Request.TotalBytes is of type long, therefore there will be a problem
    > if the Content-Length header is over 2GB. Can I workaround this using
    > Server.RequestVariables("CONTENT_LENGTH") instead?
    >
    > I notice that the status of the response is 4000 Bad Request if the
    > Content-Length does not match the number of bytes sent, but what is it
    that
    > triggers this? Is it possible that it would respond with a 400 Bad Request
    > if I tried to transfer over 4GB, even if the Content-Length header were
    > correct?
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >

    Curt_C [MVP] Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    Oh. Then I need to go into more detail about what I am trying to achieve.

    I am currently using plain old FTP to upload files. Generally, files do not
    exceed a few hundred MB, but there is no limitation on size and I don't want
    there to be one. Larger files correspond to more business, and the day
    someone comes up with a file that big, I am not willing to say something to
    the effect of "sorry, either keep your $$$ or jump through hoops".

    However, I would like to secure the transfer. Therefore, I thought switching
    to HTTPS would be the simplest thing. The SSL is handled automatically by
    WinInet. If I were to implement FTP/SSL, for example, I would have to do all
    the encryption myself.

    Another security feature is that the files each have password protection,
    the password being encrypted and embedded in the file. The password
    protection is currently enforced by our software acting as the FTP client. I
    would like to implement it on the server for more complete security, which
    is simple to do with HTTP.

    BTW, for those who don't have Internet Explorer 4, using HttpSendRequest
    (instead of HttpSendRequestEx) is a problem, because you have to send it in
    one chunk, but I figure I will just recommend those people upgrade if they
    have large files.

    What is it that makes the transfer unstable? Do you have a suggestion that
    is simple, encrypted, password protected by file and unlimited in size?

    Yours hopefully,

    Paul

    "Curt_C [MVP]" <Software_AT_Darkfalz.com> wrote in message
    news:et%230lNzRDHA.2084TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
    > EEEEEK
    > HTTP is the Wrong technology for that. You should look at FTP for that
    size.
    > The transmission is never going to be stable long enough for that to flow
    > though.
    >
    >
    > --
    > ----------------------------------------------------------
    > Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com)
    > Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software
    > [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url]
    > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > ..Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone...
    > ---------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    > news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an ASP
    > running
    > > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large?
    > >
    > > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library
    indicates
    > > that Request.TotalBytes is of type long, therefore there will be a
    problem
    > > if the Content-Length header is over 2GB. Can I workaround this using
    > > Server.RequestVariables("CONTENT_LENGTH") instead?
    > >
    > > I notice that the status of the response is 4000 Bad Request if the
    > > Content-Length does not match the number of bytes sent, but what is it
    > that
    > > triggers this? Is it possible that it would respond with a 400 Bad
    Request
    > > if I tried to transfer over 4GB, even if the Content-Length header were
    > > correct?
    > >
    > > Paul
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Paul Baker Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    Matt,

    See my post that I sent a couple of minutes before yours and that is
    probably on its way to you.

    I would like the transfer to be simple, encrypted, password protected and of
    unlimited size. Something that I didn't think would be a problem with
    today's technology, and that I thought HTTPS and WinInet.dll would achieve
    simply.

    Paul

    "Matt Smith" <_mattbreathemail.net> wrote in message
    news:bemc02$410$1sparta.btinternet.com...
    > I'm just curious, but WHY would you ever want to transfer over 4GB across
    a
    > POST method?
    > Has anyone at the group got a submission for the largest amount of POST
    data
    > ever sent?
    >
    > Matt
    >
    >

    Paul Baker Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    ASP.net HttpRequest.TotalBytes is also of type "int".

    Paul

    "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an ASP
    running
    > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large?
    >
    > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library indicates
    > that Request.TotalBytes is of type long, therefore there will be a problem
    > if the Content-Length header is over 2GB. Can I workaround this using
    > Server.RequestVariables("CONTENT_LENGTH") instead?
    >
    > I notice that the status of the response is 4000 Bad Request if the
    > Content-Length does not match the number of bytes sent, but what is it
    that
    > triggers this? Is it possible that it would respond with a 400 Bad Request
    > if I tried to transfer over 4GB, even if the Content-Length header were
    > correct?
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >

    Paul Baker Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    look at SSH perhaps?

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com)
    Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software
    [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url]
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    ...Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone...
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    news:##wFrs6RDHA.3880tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > Oh. Then I need to go into more detail about what I am trying to achieve.
    >
    > I am currently using plain old FTP to upload files. Generally, files do
    not
    > exceed a few hundred MB, but there is no limitation on size and I don't
    want
    > there to be one. Larger files correspond to more business, and the day
    > someone comes up with a file that big, I am not willing to say something
    to
    > the effect of "sorry, either keep your $$$ or jump through hoops".
    >
    > However, I would like to secure the transfer. Therefore, I thought
    switching
    > to HTTPS would be the simplest thing. The SSL is handled automatically by
    > WinInet. If I were to implement FTP/SSL, for example, I would have to do
    all
    > the encryption myself.
    >
    > Another security feature is that the files each have password protection,
    > the password being encrypted and embedded in the file. The password
    > protection is currently enforced by our software acting as the FTP client.
    I
    > would like to implement it on the server for more complete security, which
    > is simple to do with HTTP.
    >
    > BTW, for those who don't have Internet Explorer 4, using HttpSendRequest
    > (instead of HttpSendRequestEx) is a problem, because you have to send it
    in
    > one chunk, but I figure I will just recommend those people upgrade if they
    > have large files.
    >
    > What is it that makes the transfer unstable? Do you have a suggestion that
    > is simple, encrypted, password protected by file and unlimited in size?
    >
    > Yours hopefully,
    >
    > Paul
    >
    > "Curt_C [MVP]" <Software_AT_Darkfalz.com> wrote in message
    > news:et%230lNzRDHA.2084TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
    > > EEEEEK
    > > HTTP is the Wrong technology for that. You should look at FTP for that
    > size.
    > > The transmission is never going to be stable long enough for that to
    flow
    > > though.
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > ----------------------------------------------------------
    > > Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com)
    > > Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software
    > > [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url]
    > > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > > ..Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone...
    > > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > >
    > > "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    > > news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an ASP
    > > running
    > > > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large?
    > > >
    > > > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library
    > indicates
    > > > that Request.TotalBytes is of type long, therefore there will be a
    > problem
    > > > if the Content-Length header is over 2GB. Can I workaround this using
    > > > Server.RequestVariables("CONTENT_LENGTH") instead?
    > > >
    > > > I notice that the status of the response is 4000 Bad Request if the
    > > > Content-Length does not match the number of bytes sent, but what is it
    > > that
    > > > triggers this? Is it possible that it would respond with a 400 Bad
    > Request
    > > > if I tried to transfer over 4GB, even if the Content-Length header
    were
    > > > correct?
    > > >
    > > > Paul
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Curt_C [MVP] Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    Are you referring to this product?
    [url]http://www.ssh.com/products/security/secureshellwinserver/[/url]. Thanks for the
    interesting suggestion. I will give it some serious consideration.

    We use Serv-U for our FTP server: [url]http://www.serv-u.com/[/url]. This supports SSL,
    I think. I will consider that too for the uploads. I don't know if it has a
    plug-in for password protection. If not, do you think HTTPS with the GET
    verb would be okay for large downloads if I set the Content-Length header
    myself?

    I think you've persuaded me to ditch HTTP with the POST verb for uploading.
    How disappointing that we still live with these limitations.

    Paul

    "Curt_C [MVP]" <Software_AT_Darkfalz.com> wrote in message
    news:%23c%235v98RDHA.2892TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > look at SSH perhaps?
    >
    > --
    > ----------------------------------------------------------
    > Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com)
    > Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software
    > [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url]
    > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > ..Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone...
    > ---------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    > news:##wFrs6RDHA.3880tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > > Oh. Then I need to go into more detail about what I am trying to
    achieve.
    > >
    > > I am currently using plain old FTP to upload files. Generally, files do
    > not
    > > exceed a few hundred MB, but there is no limitation on size and I don't
    > want
    > > there to be one. Larger files correspond to more business, and the day
    > > someone comes up with a file that big, I am not willing to say something
    > to
    > > the effect of "sorry, either keep your $$$ or jump through hoops".
    > >
    > > However, I would like to secure the transfer. Therefore, I thought
    > switching
    > > to HTTPS would be the simplest thing. The SSL is handled automatically
    by
    > > WinInet. If I were to implement FTP/SSL, for example, I would have to do
    > all
    > > the encryption myself.
    > >
    > > Another security feature is that the files each have password
    protection,
    > > the password being encrypted and embedded in the file. The password
    > > protection is currently enforced by our software acting as the FTP
    client.
    > I
    > > would like to implement it on the server for more complete security,
    which
    > > is simple to do with HTTP.
    > >
    > > BTW, for those who don't have Internet Explorer 4, using HttpSendRequest
    > > (instead of HttpSendRequestEx) is a problem, because you have to send it
    > in
    > > one chunk, but I figure I will just recommend those people upgrade if
    they
    > > have large files.
    > >
    > > What is it that makes the transfer unstable? Do you have a suggestion
    that
    > > is simple, encrypted, password protected by file and unlimited in size?
    > >
    > > Yours hopefully,
    > >
    > > Paul
    > >
    > > "Curt_C [MVP]" <Software_AT_Darkfalz.com> wrote in message
    > > news:et%230lNzRDHA.2084TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
    > > > EEEEEK
    > > > HTTP is the Wrong technology for that. You should look at FTP for that
    > > size.
    > > > The transmission is never going to be stable long enough for that to
    > flow
    > > > though.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
    > > > Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com)
    > > > Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software
    > > > [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url]
    > > > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > > > ..Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone...
    > > > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > > >
    > > > "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    > > > news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > > > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an ASP
    > > > running
    > > > > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large?
    > > > >
    > > > > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library
    > > indicates
    > > > > that Request.TotalBytes is of type long, therefore there will be a
    > > problem
    > > > > if the Content-Length header is over 2GB. Can I workaround this
    using
    > > > > Server.RequestVariables("CONTENT_LENGTH") instead?
    > > > >
    > > > > I notice that the status of the response is 4000 Bad Request if the
    > > > > Content-Length does not match the number of bytes sent, but what is
    it
    > > > that
    > > > > triggers this? Is it possible that it would respond with a 400 Bad
    > > Request
    > > > > if I tried to transfer over 4GB, even if the Content-Length header
    > were
    > > > > correct?
    > > > >
    > > > > Paul
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Paul Baker Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    Hi Paul,
    I think the following url will be much useful to you. You can try freeware
    first for testing and understanding, right!!

    [url]http://www.freessh.org/windows.html[/url]

    Good luck,

    Jitu

    "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    news:eF3cXL9RDHA.2148TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > Are you referring to this product?
    > [url]http://www.ssh.com/products/security/secureshellwinserver/[/url]. Thanks for the
    > interesting suggestion. I will give it some serious consideration.
    >
    > We use Serv-U for our FTP server: [url]http://www.serv-u.com/[/url]. This supports
    SSL,
    > I think. I will consider that too for the uploads. I don't know if it has
    a
    > plug-in for password protection. If not, do you think HTTPS with the GET
    > verb would be okay for large downloads if I set the Content-Length header
    > myself?
    >
    > I think you've persuaded me to ditch HTTP with the POST verb for
    uploading.
    > How disappointing that we still live with these limitations.
    >
    > Paul
    >
    > "Curt_C [MVP]" <Software_AT_Darkfalz.com> wrote in message
    > news:%23c%235v98RDHA.2892TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > > look at SSH perhaps?
    > >
    > > --
    > > ----------------------------------------------------------
    > > Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com)
    > > Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software
    > > [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url]
    > > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > > ..Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone...
    > > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > >
    > > "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    > > news:##wFrs6RDHA.3880tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > > > Oh. Then I need to go into more detail about what I am trying to
    > achieve.
    > > >
    > > > I am currently using plain old FTP to upload files. Generally, files
    do
    > > not
    > > > exceed a few hundred MB, but there is no limitation on size and I
    don't
    > > want
    > > > there to be one. Larger files correspond to more business, and the day
    > > > someone comes up with a file that big, I am not willing to say
    something
    > > to
    > > > the effect of "sorry, either keep your $$$ or jump through hoops".
    > > >
    > > > However, I would like to secure the transfer. Therefore, I thought
    > > switching
    > > > to HTTPS would be the simplest thing. The SSL is handled automatically
    > by
    > > > WinInet. If I were to implement FTP/SSL, for example, I would have to
    do
    > > all
    > > > the encryption myself.
    > > >
    > > > Another security feature is that the files each have password
    > protection,
    > > > the password being encrypted and embedded in the file. The password
    > > > protection is currently enforced by our software acting as the FTP
    > client.
    > > I
    > > > would like to implement it on the server for more complete security,
    > which
    > > > is simple to do with HTTP.
    > > >
    > > > BTW, for those who don't have Internet Explorer 4, using
    HttpSendRequest
    > > > (instead of HttpSendRequestEx) is a problem, because you have to send
    it
    > > in
    > > > one chunk, but I figure I will just recommend those people upgrade if
    > they
    > > > have large files.
    > > >
    > > > What is it that makes the transfer unstable? Do you have a suggestion
    > that
    > > > is simple, encrypted, password protected by file and unlimited in
    size?
    > > >
    > > > Yours hopefully,
    > > >
    > > > Paul
    > > >
    > > > "Curt_C [MVP]" <Software_AT_Darkfalz.com> wrote in message
    > > > news:et%230lNzRDHA.2084TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
    > > > > EEEEEK
    > > > > HTTP is the Wrong technology for that. You should look at FTP for
    that
    > > > size.
    > > > > The transmission is never going to be stable long enough for that to
    > > flow
    > > > > though.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
    > > > > Curt Christianson (Software_AT_Darkfalz.Com)
    > > > > Owner/Lead Designer, DF-Software
    > > > > [url]http://www.Darkfalz.com[/url]
    > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > > > > ..Offering free scripts & code snippits for everyone...
    > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------
    > > > >
    > > > > "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    > > > > news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > > > > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an
    ASP
    > > > > running
    > > > > > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library
    > > > indicates
    > > > > > that Request.TotalBytes is of type long, therefore there will be a
    > > > problem
    > > > > > if the Content-Length header is over 2GB. Can I workaround this
    > using
    > > > > > Server.RequestVariables("CONTENT_LENGTH") instead?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I notice that the status of the response is 4000 Bad Request if
    the
    > > > > > Content-Length does not match the number of bytes sent, but what
    is
    > it
    > > > > that
    > > > > > triggers this? Is it possible that it would respond with a 400 Bad
    > > > Request
    > > > > > if I tried to transfer over 4GB, even if the Content-Length header
    > > were
    > > > > > correct?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Paul
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Jitu>> Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    Hi, Paul.

    I think IIS cannot accept more than 4GB - IIS 1-5 responds 400 bad
    request for more than 4GB. Ulike others I mean there is no problem to accept
    up to 4GB files over http. ASP BinaryRead takes more processor resources
    than in ideal case (ISAPI app), but there is no problem to accept 4GB in
    100-200second on good server (1.5-3.0GHz) - if you have good line, of course
    (Gb/s).

    IIS6 can accept only 2GB - IIS6 responds 400 bad request for files >2GB.
    You will also need some other software than IE to upload more than 2GB - 2GB
    is limit for IE of all versions.


    Antonín Foller



    "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an ASP
    running
    > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large?
    >
    > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library indicates
    > that Request.TotalBytes is of type long, therefore there will be a problem
    > if the Content-Length header is over 2GB. Can I workaround this using
    > Server.RequestVariables("CONTENT_LENGTH") instead?
    >
    > I notice that the status of the response is 4000 Bad Request if the
    > Content-Length does not match the number of bytes sent, but what is it
    that
    > triggers this? Is it possible that it would respond with a 400 Bad Request
    > if I tried to transfer over 4GB, even if the Content-Length header were
    > correct?
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >

    Antonin Foller Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Can ASP accept a POST over 4GB

    Antonin,

    Thanks for this information. I am curious why I don't see it doented
    anywhere on Microsoft's web site.

    I have found that IIS does not transfer control to my ASP until it has read
    the entire request and until it has checked the Content-Length header
    against the number of bytes actuall received. I suspect this is so that it
    can implement the properties of the Request object. I also suspect that it
    is holding the entire request in memory. This is what I am guessing is the
    concern that others have, though none has articulated why they feel HTTP is
    not an appropriate protocol.

    I do use IIS/ASP to download a file, because in that case it is my ASP that
    has control over the response and uses Response.BinaryWrite. It is the
    response, not the request, that is large, so it is a different case.

    Paul

    "Antonin Foller" <tondafoller.cz> wrote in message
    news:uZVwTasSDHA.2188TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > Hi, Paul.
    >
    > I think IIS cannot accept more than 4GB - IIS 1-5 responds 400 bad
    > request for more than 4GB. Ulike others I mean there is no problem to
    accept
    > up to 4GB files over http. ASP BinaryRead takes more processor resources
    > than in ideal case (ISAPI app), but there is no problem to accept 4GB in
    > 100-200second on good server (1.5-3.0GHz) - if you have good line, of
    course
    > (Gb/s).
    >
    > IIS6 can accept only 2GB - IIS6 responds 400 bad request for files
    >2GB.
    > You will also need some other software than IE to upload more than 2GB -
    2GB
    > is limit for IE of all versions.
    >
    >
    > Antonín Foller
    >
    >
    >
    > "Paul Baker" <ask> wrote in message
    > news:uCLkJryRDHA.1924TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > I would like to use a POST to transfer over 4GB of data. Can an ASP
    > running
    > > on Windows 2000/IIS 5.0 accept a POST that large?
    > >
    > > The 'Microsoft Active Server Pages Object Library' type library
    indicates
    > > that Request.TotalBytes is of type long, therefore there will be a
    problem
    > > if the Content-Length header is over 2GB. Can I workaround this using
    > > Server.RequestVariables("CONTENT_LENGTH") instead?
    > >
    > > I notice that the status of the response is 4000 Bad Request if the
    > > Content-Length does not match the number of bytes sent, but what is it
    > that
    > > triggers this? Is it possible that it would respond with a 400 Bad
    Request
    > > if I tried to transfer over 4GB, even if the Content-Length header were
    > > correct?
    > >
    > > Paul
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Paul Baker Guest

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