# can I add a title to a picture package?

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• June 22nd, 03:18 PM
rick mathes
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
ok, so I think I've gleaned the following info from the ppi-related posts:

1. try to frame the original such that minimal cropping is required.

2. when cropping, if I use the marquee tool, it will keep the ppi constant so that i don't need to guess what the resolution should be, thereby eliminating one potential error point.

3. once i get to the picture package screen, i need to specify a ppi there and that figure needs to take into account the original ppi, the severity of the crop, and the resulting image size.

So first, are these 3 statements true?

Second, provided when I cropped I made the image the same size as what I'm going to use in picture package, then it seems like what I need to do to set the resolution is this:

- estimate the percentage of pixels that were cropped to calculate the remaining number of pixels (i believe Elements can tell me the number of pixels in the shot, more on this later)
- divide that by the dimensions of the photos in picture package to determine their 'native' ppi and use that number for the picture package resolution.

so to use an example, if I had a pic (numbers rounded for ease of computation) that started out as 2500 x 1500, I've got 4000. Let's say I crop 25%. Now I've got 3000. If my end photo is 4x5, then I need to solve for 'x' where (4x) x (5x) = 3000, right? So that would be 20x = 3000, or 150 ppi. Is that correct?

If not, be gentle. It's still early and I'm not sure my brain is on yet.

;-)

Now re the number of pixels in the page, when I first open a pic from my camera, if I click on the info at the bottom of that window this is what it tells me:

Width: 2048 pixels (28.444 inches)
Height: 1536 pixels (21.333 inches)
Channels: 3 (RGB color)
Resolution: 72 pixels/inch

If I resize the photo to 4x6 and keep the same number of pixels, then that works out to a resolution of 358. First question: if I do this did I just degrade the quality of the image'? I assume the answer is no because I kept the total number of pixels constant, therefore the pixels that were there are just more compressed, and that is the basic definition of 'resolution', so I actually improved image quality.

If THAT is true, then if I were to resize the photo to 4x6 and set resolution to 200, then I'm still improving image quality while reducing total number of pixels (because they're spread out over a smaller area).

If THAT is true, then when I crop if I use the crop tool, I can turn the act of cropping into a relayout of image size AND resolution, whereas using marquee keeps resolution constant (which in this case, at 72, is too low). So if I DON'T want to maintain constant resolution, AND I know what I've got and what I want it to be, then the crop tool is probably the way to go for me here.

Now if all THAT is true, then by the time the above is complete and I'm ready to put these pics into picture package, to avoid upsampling I need to make sure that the size in picture package is the same as the size i specified in cropping and that I'm keeping the resolution the same. If I do all that, then I should get fine results with no upsampling, true?

I apologize for the length, but as you have seen I'm a novice with this stuff and you guys have given me a lot of information to digest. I'm trying to make sure I'm thinking straight about this before I get too far down the trail.
• June 22nd, 06:09 PM
Chuck Snyder
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Rick, re the calculations, I would look at it differently. You're really
cropping pixels, not inches, so set aside the inch measurements for the
moment. If your image is 2500x1500, that gives you 3,750,000 pixels to work
with (2500x1500). If you reduce that number of pixels by 25%, you'll have
2,812,500 pixels remaining. The trick is to find the pixel dimensions
(length in pixels, width in pixels) with the same aspect ratio as the
original that will give you 2,812,500 pixels. My algebra is a little weak,
but I believe that calculates to approximately 2167x1300.

Now turn to print size. With the original image (2500x1500) you could get a
print at 300 ppi of 8.33 inches by 5 inches (2500/300, 1500/300); with the
smaller number of the pixels in the cropped version, your 300 ppi print
would now be 7.22 inches by 4.33 inches (2167/300, 1300/300). Or, if you
still wanted a print of 8.33 x 5, your ppi would be reduced to 260 ppi.

All this is way more detail than you really need to go through to get the
product you're after: clear images, 4x5 size, 4 to a page. If your
starting 4x5's are 300 ppi or greater, setting the Picture Package
resolution to 300 is okay, 'cause it'll resize your 4x5's, throwing away the
extra pixels that don't add anything to the printed picture quality.

Whew! Enough math for a Sunday!!

:-)

Chuck

• June 24th, 01:57 PM
Beth Haney
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Gee, whiz, Paul, I was wondering that myself! I tried using it and couldn't get it to work, although I have to admit I didn't spend much time trying to.
• June 24th, 02:20 PM
Paul L UK
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Paul & Beth

Found this out from a training video from a monthly magazine.

It places text onto all of the pictures in the pachage. The text is the same on all of them, including RELATIVE size.

Little tip, if you want to change a picture on the package, click on it and browse to the destination, then you can, for example, get 4 different 5x4's on one sheet.

Paul
• June 24th, 10:16 PM
Chuck Snyder
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Paul, your tip on changing a picture package to get 4 different pix on it
only works for PE2; alas, PE1 will give you 4 of the same, no option. For
the PE1 folks out there...

Chuck

• June 25th, 03:12 AM
Chuck Snyder
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Rick, the only advantage of the two-step approach is that it prevents any
resampling from occurring, whereas the one-step will in all likelihood
involve some resampling.

If I take the crop tool and set it to 4inches by 5 inches and 300 ppi, I can
select any amount of the picture I want, from nearly the whole thing to just
a tiny fragment. In any case, the tool will create an image that's 4 inches
by 5 inches and 300 ppi - even if it has to add a bunch of pixels to do so;
that's upsampling, and you want to minimize or avoid that if possible. On
the other hand, if you remove only a small portion of the image with the
crop tool, you may in fact do some downsampling, which is not a problem. In
either case, though, you're resampling to some extent

The two-step approach starts with an image that's at 300 ppi and whatever
dimensions that works out to for your particular image size - with no
resampling. When you use the marquee tool at a fixed size of 4 inches by 5
inches, it gives you a selection rectangle that size alone - no 'handles' to
make it bigger or smaller. Thus when you overlay it on an image that's 300
ppi, it surrounds a 4 inch by 5 inch piece that's still 300 ppi - no
resampling.

As talked about before, this is probably well beyond what's necessary for
you to get a good image for your Picture Package; mostly academic, but

Chuck

• June 25th, 03:16 AM
Chuck Snyder
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Rick, once you're happy with it, you can certainly save it as JPG to
conserve hard drive/CD space, which as I recall was one of your earlier
concerns about the Picture Package file. You'll still be able to make
overall modifications later (such as adjusting brightness, contrast,
saturation), but you won't have the 4 pictures on separate layers like you
do in a psd or tif.

Chuck

• June 25th, 03:47 AM
rick mathes
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Chuck, thanks, that makes sense. I guess one thing I'm a bit confused about is we have the terms upsampling, downsampling and resampling. Seems the first two are variants of resampling. upsampling is having to add pixels, which can degrade image quality. Downsampling is taking some away which doesn't seem like it should hurt image quality. can one resample without up or downsampling?

I'm trying to figure this stuff out. One thing that confuses me is when i take a picture, i have a certain amount of pixels spread over a given area. Now, I figured those pixels contained information about the image itself but that's perhaps not the case. If I resize the picture without resampling, it adjusts the size, but does it 'redistribute' the pixels to the smaller size? It seems that would mean that a pixel that in the larger size was, for example, displaying background might now be displaying the subject's face? If so, then that would mean the pixels are just a tool to display the desired image, and it's something else that actually instructs the pixels on what they're supposed to display so that the picture looks like, well, the picture.

so does that mean if I take a full body shot of a subject and then crop everything but the face, but while I'm cropping I pump up the resolution so that the total number of pixels remains the same (let's say while I'm cropping I'm reducing total size as well), then all those pixels that were there originally are still there, just displaying something other than what they originally displayed?

• June 25th, 11:09 AM
Chuck Snyder
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Rick, you're doing some great thinking about pixels! And you're pretty
close on the concept now.

First, re resampling...yes, it's either upsampling or downsampling.
Downsampling (throwing some pixels away to create a smaller size image) is
okay...unless you later decide you'd like to print that downsampled image at
a larger size. Bad news....you're back to the situation where you have too
few pixels to spread over too large an area. That's why most of us save our
originals at their full pixel dimensions and make copies for different
crops, e-mailing, etc.

When you take a picture, the electronic sensor captures a certain number of
discrete pieces of information about the image. Those are your pixels. The
camera doesn't know anything about image size in inches; all it knows is
that it captured 3.3 million picture elements (pixels). Your computer also
treats them as pixels. When you print, the pixel is translated into a small
square of color (which may in fact be made up of lots of dots on your
printer, but that's another confusing area). The size of these squares
changes as you change the size in inches of your print; the larger the print
at constant resolution, the larger the squares. Try creating an image that
has a size of 4 inches by 5 inches and a ppi of 10 and printing it - you'll
definitely see the pixels. The objective is to NOT see the pixels - make
them print small enough that your eye can't discern the squares.

And yes, if you pump up resolution that wasn't there originally to make the
printed squares smaller, you do get smaller pixels again, but they're not
ones that wer part of the original image. A little of that can work...but
do it a lot and the image loses sharpness and can look surreal.

OOPS! Time for me to head out the door. Will pick this up again later!

Chuck

• June 27th, 04:00 AM
rick mathes
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
One last problem for this thread, guys. I just took some new client photos and tried to create a picture package with them. Everything was going smoothly until I tried to save it. I kept getting a message that said something like "could not complete command, could not find required resources", then Elements would just shut down.

I tried increasing the percentage of RAM dedicated to Elements up to 70% (I have an iBook with 640meg of RAM) and closing ALL other apps and it STILL happened. I had 4 4x5s at 300 ppi. Does this make sense to anyone? It frustrated the hell out of me. Even after Elements auto closed and I restarted it, it still did it. I even tried rebooting and it still did it.
• June 27th, 04:09 AM
Barbara Brundage
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Hi, Rick. Are you running X? It seems kind of nonsenical till you think about it, but actually, increasing the percentage of sytem memory usually makes elements run worse. In order to do that, PE is going to try to find more of your disk to use as virtual memory, and the reason you got that message in the first place is usually that there already wasn't space allocated the way PE wants it. The best way to improve performance is to give it more free contiguous disk space.

Memory messages like that in X generally mean that there just isn't enough room for Elements to put things. So you need to either take some stuff off your hard drive, or defrag it. Defragging is usually not necessary in X, but audio and video/photoshop are the two exceptions. They don't just need space, they need it in chunks, not little bits here and there.

EDIT If you know you have enough empty space, a short term workaround for that kind of memory problem is to quit everything and restart the computer. That will do it sometimes. Do you ever see black bars on your desktop folders?
• June 27th, 04:23 AM
Barbara Brundage
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Hm. Did you save at all during the process? That happens to me on occasion if I leave too much in memory without saving along the way. For instance, if I use an unsharp mask on a large file, then go straight to save for web without saving first, it will hang or quit because there's just too much going on. If I save before "save for web" all is fine.

EDIT Don't forget that Elements is basically photoshop, and there's a reason that all the high-powered new machines are always marketed to people working in the graphics industry. Why do you think they always use photoshop for those "bakeoffs" for benchmark tests? It's really, really intense what's going on with the algorithms there, even though the front end is pretty simple.
• June 27th, 05:07 AM
Barbara Brundage
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Yeah, that does sound like something's not right. Hopefully Rich may be around tomorrow morning with some suggestions for you.
• June 27th, 06:24 AM
rick mathes
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
I tried a little experiment. After selecting the initial photo for the picture package, rather than replace 3 of the pics with the ones from file, i just left all 4 the same and said 'ok'. it constructed the package and then allowed me to resize the canvas and save the file without any problem. I then discarded that package without completing the save and did a new one with the 4 different pictures and got the same problem, as soon as I clicked on file/save Elements just shut down.

So at this point I'm back to having to lay em out in PowerPoint. At least now with the knowledge I gained on this thread I'm able to ensure they're appropriately sized with minimal resampling, but I sure would like to make the picture package work.

fyi, all 4 files are roughly the same size, all are JPGs right around 220 kb.
• June 27th, 01:49 PM
Barbara Brundage
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?

something is surely off within either Elements or the system,

I'll say! Gee, Rick, before I thought maybe you were talking about a bunch of maybe 20+MB files. At 220K per photo, something is definitely out of whack.
• June 27th, 04:24 PM
Barbara Brundage
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Ah, that's probably your problem, Rick. Go to your prefs folder and trash the PE preferences folder and com.adobe.photoshop elements.plist. If you didn't get the .plist, you didn't really fully delete prefs, btw. (I don't know if the installer for the demo includes an uninstaller, but it wouldn't hurt to check.)

Now go to applications>utilities>disk utilities. You want to run "repair permissions." This should be done before and after any major installs (anything that has an installer as opposed to a disk image that you just drag to the desktop to use).

OS X has a unix core, and the unix system of file permissions is very important. Repair permissions puts everything back to the default, so that your installer can find things the way it expects to find them. Installers may need to mess with permissions to allow them to install stuff, so you run it again afterwards to put things back where they should be.
• June 27th, 04:31 PM
Beth Haney
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
First, Rick, are we still talking about the Elements demo program here? If so, before you uninstall/reinstall, understand that the fact it's a demo might keep you from accomplishing that. I do know it has a 30 day limit to the trial, but I'm not sure what other little safeguards Adobe might have added to keep you from taking it off and putting it back on.

Second, if you're unfamiliar with the routine Repair Permissions, I'd suggest you do that before you try anything else. I'm not "techie" enough to give you a decent explanation of why, but I can quote what David Pogue says about it in his book "OS X, The Missing Manual".

"...function is to straighten out problems with the invisible Unix file permissions that keep you from moving, changing, or deleting files or folders. The occasional software installer can create problems like this."

Now that people have been using OS X for a while, it's been learned that this is a good thing to do on a fairly regular basis, and it's highly recommended both before and after the installation of new software. "Trust me." :) Many more functions besides those quoted above can be impacted by a system that's out of alignment.

Oh, I'm assuming you're running 10.2. If not, we're going to have to find a different set of instructions, because previous versions don't include the Repair Permission function within the OS. But, if you're on Jag: Find your Disk Utility folder, open it, and go to the disk repair portion. Highlight the icon for your hard drive and then choose "Repair." If you've got the time, you can sit and watch it go through its gyrations and note all the areas in which it's making corrections; but if you've been using your computer for a while and have never done this, the process may take longer than you're prepared to sit and watch.

In another fairly recent thread, Barbara (Brundage) noted that David Pogue has written a book for people who have switched from Windows to Mac. (That thread might be the one about problems with a CF card that Carl posted.) I have a different book by Pogue, but you might want to get more info and consider buying the one she mentioned. OS X is absolutely wonderful, but, like anything else, you need to learn how to care for it so it gives you the reliability you expect.

I think your Save problem points more toward a need for system maintenance than anything else at this point. I strongly recommend holding off on an uninstall/reinstall.

The answer to your question about uninstalling, by the way, is to drag the application icon into the trash can and manually delete the Preference folder. I think there's something else, too, but I can't think of it right now. Barbara will be along shortly with the details!

And it took me so long to compose this that if it winds up being a duplicate, I'm sorry! I'm easily distracted this morning.

Edit: Yep, Barbara got here first, but I refuse to delete! :)
• June 27th, 04:44 PM
Barbara Brundage
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
But you made a lot of good points, Beth!

BTW, Rick, I agree with Beth that you should just trash prefs and repair permissions before trying a reinstall. Always take the easiest route first.
• June 27th, 04:46 PM
Beth Haney
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Well, maybe I'll use that to justify how come it took so long! (Ignoring the long-windedness part of the issue.)
• June 27th, 06:20 PM
Barbara Brundage
Re: can I add a title to a picture package?
Hi, rick. Sorry you're still having problems. Just checking--you did delete both the preferences folder and the .plist at the same time? If you did them one at time then ran the program in between it doesn't work.

I would really second Beth's suggestion about the Pogue book. OS X is hardest for people who are very used to something else, whether it's the old mac os or windows. It was hard for me, at first.

BTW, if you decide to get PE, you ought to be able to get it for much less than \$90 if you shop around. \$69 is about the average street price.

EDIT Are you having trouble in any other apps? That might give us a clue, if so.
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