Professional Web Applications Themes

Can Nav Bars automatically show down state? - Macromedia Fireworks

Maybe I?m reading too much into them, but some of the Fireworks MX Help pages appear to me to be saying that there is a way to have Fireworks MX generate nav bars which will automatically show the button in a down state for the page that the visitor is viewing. For example here?s what one help page has to say: ?Editing instance-level properties Instance-level properties are edited in the Property inspector when a single instance is selected. The properties that you can change for an instance without affecting the associated symbol or any other instances of that symbol are ...

  1. #1

    Default Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    Maybe I?m reading too much into them, but some of the Fireworks MX Help pages appear to me to be saying that there is a way to have Fireworks MX generate nav bars which will automatically show the button in a down state for the page that the visitor is viewing.

    For example here?s what one help page has to say:
    ?Editing instance-level properties
    Instance-level properties are edited in the Property inspector when a single instance is selected. The properties that you can change for an instance without affecting the associated symbol or any other instances of that symbol are those that would typically differ from button to button in a series of buttons:
    ? [Deleted unrelated items]
    ? The Show Down State on Load option in the Property inspector for instances within a nav bar
    "Note: In Fireworks MX, you need not choose the Show Down State on Load option for every button instance in a nav bar. The Doent Specific section of the HTML Setup dialog box contains an option called Export Multiple Files. When you choose this option and then export a nav bar, Fireworks MX exports each HTML page with the corresponding button?s Down State.?

    ?For more information, see Setting HTML export options.?

    Then following the link to Setting HTML export options I see this:
    ?[Deleted unrelated items]
    4. In the Doent Specific tab, choose from the following options:
    [Deleted unrelated items]
    Choose Multiple Nav Bar HTML Pages when exporting a navigation bar that will link several pages together. When this option is chosen, Fireworks exports additional pages for each button in the navigation bar.?

    I?ve tried to follow this procedure, and so far I?m not able to get that result. I have a couple of questions:

    1) Is this procedure saying what I think it is ? that selecting the Multiple Pages option will generate multiple HTML files containing nav bars that will automatically display the down state for the page the visitor is viewing?

    2) Even though I selected File > HTML Setup > Doent Specific > check the Multiple Nav Bar HTML Pages option, when I export the Fireworks nav bar file, I see only one HTML page being exported, not multiple ones. Shouldn?t see multiple files being generated?

    3) I?m assuming that once the file or files have been generated, that within DW MX I should just click the Fireworks HTML button to insert the Fireworks HTML file, correct?

    Thanks


    MXUser_ webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    MX:
    > I appreciate the quick reply.
    We aim to please. You're welcome!
    > and am really impressed
    Me too. It's a very slick method.
    > If this is your site
    It is not.
    > are those solutions available royalty free?
    Yes.
    > Are you aware of a good solution for that?
    Yes, I have several in mind. Please tell me, however, if you are going to
    be using DW Templates to build this site?
    > all of the nav panel code generated by FW for DW is subject to the same
    glitches and excessive size, or were you just referring to the pop-up menus?

    I was referring to the pop-ups specifically. I'm not sure which other nav
    panels you mean.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
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    "MXUser_" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bh161c$im2$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Murray,
    >
    > I appreciate the quick reply. I took a look at the solutions at
    [url]http://www.youngpup.net[/url], and am really impressed. I think I'll try to work
    one or more of these into a future project. If this is your site, are those
    solutions available royalty free?
    >
    > For my current project though what I'm after is something much more
    modest -- just nav bar buttons that show the down state automatically for
    the page being viewed. The buttons themselves could even be non-rollover.
    Are you aware of a good solution for that?
    >
    > Also, I guess the reason that you pointed me to the
    [url]http://webforums.macromedia.com/fireworks/messageview.cfm?catid=193&threadid=669433&highligh t_key=y&keyword1=Pop%2DUp&keyword2=Opera[/url]
    is that you're saying that all of the nav panel code generated by FW for DW
    is subject to the same glitches and excessive size, or were you just
    referring to the pop-up menus?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > MXU
    >
    >

    Murray *TMM* Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    Murray,


    Yes, I'll be using two types of nav bars, and both within DW MX templates. Across the top in a base template for the entire site will be a horizontal nav bar with rollover images. From the base template I plan to create nested departmental templates, each with its own left nav bar (buttons arranged vertically).

    This is for maintenance on an existing large site, and I plan to convert the pages piecemeal over time, so I'll need to be consistent with the previeous use of rollovers. In the top nav bar that means simple two state (up/over) rollovers without a down state displayed for the current page. I think this is pretty straightforward using FW to DW, but if you know of a way to avoid some of the problems of excessive code size and URLs buried in the JS code, I'd be interested in finding out more.

    In the left nav bars the existing scheme is non-rollover links, but with a contrasting color shown for the current page. It is this left nav bar where I am hoping to find a way to automate displaying a contrasting button color (down state?) for the current page.

    Thanks,
    MXU


    MXUser_ webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    MX:

    Then I would strongly encourage you to a) use either the PVII methods or the
    youngpup methods for your navigation menus, and to read through the tutorial
    on our book's companion site regarding how to set the proper down button in
    a Template page's menu -

    [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url]

    (note - there is a very nice, alternate method described in Dave McFarland's
    Dreamweaver MX: The Missing Manual)

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO GET
    ANSWERS
    ==================
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    [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    ==================

    "MXUser_" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bh3n7b$s43$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Murray,
    >
    >
    > Yes, I'll be using two types of nav bars, and both within DW MX templates.
    Across the top in a base template for the entire site will be a horizontal
    nav bar with rollover images. From the base template I plan to create
    nested departmental templates, each with its own left nav bar (buttons
    arranged vertically).
    >
    > This is for maintenance on an existing large site, and I plan to convert
    the pages piecemeal over time, so I'll need to be consistent with the
    previeous use of rollovers. In the top nav bar that means simple two state
    (up/over) rollovers without a down state displayed for the current page. I
    think this is pretty straightforward using FW to DW, but if you know of a
    way to avoid some of the problems of excessive code size and URLs buried in
    the JS code, I'd be interested in finding out more.
    >
    > In the left nav bars the existing scheme is non-rollover links, but with a
    contrasting color shown for the current page. It is this left nav bar where
    I am hoping to find a way to automate displaying a contrasting button color
    (down state?) for the current page.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > MXU
    >
    >

    Murray *TMM* Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?



    Murray *TMM* wrote:
    >MX:
    >
    >Then I would strongly encourage you to a) use either the PVII methods or the
    >youngpup methods for your navigation menus, and to read through the tutorial
    >on our book's companion site regarding how to set the proper down button in
    >a Template page's menu -
    >
    >[url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url]
    >
    >(note - there is a very nice, alternate method described in Dave McFarland's
    >Dreamweaver MX: The Missing Manual)
    >
    >
    >
    Hi Murray:

    In reading this thread I did not once see MXUser mention anything about
    pop-up menus, or menus of any kind. I don't fault you in your crusade to
    direct people to PVII solutions, but MXUser is asking a simple question
    about how to create a Nav Bar that has down state buttons that appear in
    that state when the corresponding page is arrived at on the site. That's
    all.

    There have been TechNotes on our site that describe this since Fireworks
    3. Here is the most applicable one:

    <http://www.macromedia.com/support/fireworks/ts/doents/multiple_html_exts.htm>

    In Fireworks MX the settings in the Property inspector replace those in
    the Link Wizard. Here you'll name your button and the link to have
    identical filenames, so the button named "home" will have the link set
    to "home.htm" and you don't have to worry with the "Show down state on
    load" setting. If you export using the multiple nav bar HTML option in
    the Doent Specific tab of the HTML Setup, he'll get his files, each
    with the corresponding down state which can then be inserted into the
    desired Dreamweaver pages.

    --
    enthusiastically,
    mark haynes
    fireworks product team liaison
    macromedia customer care
    Please post all replies to this forum
    Responses to the forum are more effective for everyone.
    For Fireworks support, go to:
    <http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/complimentary/>


    Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions
    Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription for Macromedia developers
    Find out more: [url]http://www.macromedia.com/go/devnetsubs/[/url]


    mark haynes Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    Mark:
    > In reading this thread I did not once see MXUser mention anything about
    > pop-up menus, or menus of any kind.
    You are right - although I would assert that a nav bar is a menu.

    Over exhuberant? Perhaps.

    The *crusade* (sadly a crusade - I shouldn't have to do this) is not so much
    to drive people to PVII but to prevent them from using the FW pop-ups. And
    it a tough sell, as you can see. PVII does nice work, delivering all that
    people who stumble into pop-up hell want, but do not get with pop-ups. And
    it's well described in those linked tutorials. But there are other
    examples, too - it's just that PVII's are the most accessible (see this
    one -
    [url]http://www.youngpup.net/?request=/components/ypSlideOutMenus.xml[/url]).

    In my opinion, the FW feature is badly broken and should be removed from the
    product until it is fixed. It could be fixed, and if it were, I would
    support it.

    My goal in this thread was 3 fold -

    1. To inform the developer of the real pitfalls that lay ahead
    2. To inform the developer of usable alternatives
    3. To nudge the developer in the direction of DW code, templates and
    sensible design decisions (all in my opinion, of course)

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO GET
    ANSWERS
    ==================
    [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
    [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    ==================

    "mark haynes" <supportinfomacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:3F3716F7.1040908macromedia.com...
    >
    >
    > Murray *TMM* wrote:
    >
    > >MX:
    > >
    > >Then I would strongly encourage you to a) use either the PVII methods or
    the
    > >youngpup methods for your navigation menus, and to read through the
    tutorial
    > >on our book's companion site regarding how to set the proper down button
    in
    > >a Template page's menu -
    > >
    > >[url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url]
    > >
    > >(note - there is a very nice, alternate method described in Dave
    McFarland's
    > >Dreamweaver MX: The Missing Manual)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > Hi Murray:
    >
    > In reading this thread I did not once see MXUser mention anything about
    > pop-up menus, or menus of any kind. I don't fault you in your crusade to
    > direct people to PVII solutions, but MXUser is asking a simple question
    > about how to create a Nav Bar that has down state buttons that appear in
    > that state when the corresponding page is arrived at on the site. That's
    > all.
    >
    > There have been TechNotes on our site that describe this since Fireworks
    > 3. Here is the most applicable one:
    >
    >
    <[url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/fireworks/ts/doents/multiple_html_exts[/url]
    ..htm>
    >
    > In Fireworks MX the settings in the Property inspector replace those in
    > the Link Wizard. Here you'll name your button and the link to have
    > identical filenames, so the button named "home" will have the link set
    > to "home.htm" and you don't have to worry with the "Show down state on
    > load" setting. If you export using the multiple nav bar HTML option in
    > the Doent Specific tab of the HTML Setup, he'll get his files, each
    > with the corresponding down state which can then be inserted into the
    > desired Dreamweaver pages.
    >
    > --
    > enthusiastically,
    > mark haynes
    > fireworks product team liaison
    > macromedia customer care
    > Please post all replies to this forum
    > Responses to the forum are more effective for everyone.
    > For Fireworks support, go to:
    > <http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/complimentary/>
    >
    >
    > Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions
    > Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription for
    Macromedia developers
    > Find out more: [url]http://www.macromedia.com/go/devnetsubs/[/url]
    >
    >

    Murray *TMM* Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    Hi Mark,

    I appreciate the reference to the tech note. Looks like that should provide the down state automatically for my left nav bars.

    As for the rollover image links problem mentioned by Murray, I did a quick test, and it appears that what was said by him and some of the sources he cites is true: that the links to the rollover images are buried in the JavaScript, and therefore do not adjust automatically when embedded in templates. In other words, if I create a page from template that happens to be saved to the same level as the template relative to the images, then it works. But if I save the new page created from template to a different level, I get broken image links in the nav bar buttons.

    Since almost any up to date Web site these days is expected to have at least basic two state rollovers, I'm wondering just how useful the DW templates feature and new MX embedded templates feature are if I can't use Fireworks to efficiently create the rollover buttons for the nav bars within those templates?

    Do you have a solution or workaround for this problem?

    Thanks,
    MXU


    MXUser_ webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    MX:
    > In other words, if I create a page from template that happens to be saved
    to the same level as the template relative to the images, then it works.
    But if I save the new page created from template to a different level, I get
    broken image links in the nav bar buttons.

    This is correct, and it is the ONLY way it's going to work. Of course that
    will break every other thing on the page because NOTHING should be in the
    Templates folder other than your template files. You are now caught on the
    horns of an embarrasing dilemma. And you haven't even addressed the problem
    that these links are also invisible to search engines that may want to
    spider your site. If your only navigation resides in these menus, then your
    site will not be spidered at all. Of course, those links are also
    INACCESSIBLE, so 508 considerations go out the window too....
    > Since almost any up to date Web site these days is expected to have at
    least basic two state rollovers, I'm wondering just how useful the DW
    templates feature and new MX embedded templates feature are if I can't use
    Fireworks to efficiently create the rollover buttons for the nav bars within
    those templates?

    They are VERY useful, just not with THOSE menus. Try these for size - they
    work blindfolded....

    [url]http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/menuing/mcloser/index.htm[/url]

    or

    [url]http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/auto_hide/index.htm[/url]

    or

    [url]http://www.youngpup.net/?request=/components/ypSlideOutMenus.xml[/url]

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO GET
    ANSWERS
    ==================
    [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
    [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    ==================

    "MXUser_" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bh8rfh$6kb$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Hi Mark,
    >
    > I appreciate the reference to the tech note. Looks like that should
    provide the down state automatically for my left nav bars.
    >
    > As for the rollover image links problem mentioned by Murray, I did a quick
    test, and it appears that what was said by him and some of the sources he
    cites is true: that the links to the rollover images are buried in the
    JavaScript, and therefore do not adjust automatically when embedded in
    templates. In other words, if I create a page from template that happens
    to be saved to the same level as the template relative to the images, then
    it works. But if I save the new page created from template to a different
    level, I get broken image links in the nav bar buttons.
    >
    > Since almost any up to date Web site these days is expected to have at
    least basic two state rollovers, I'm wondering just how useful the DW
    templates feature and new MX embedded templates feature are if I can't use
    Fireworks to efficiently create the rollover buttons for the nav bars within
    those templates?
    >
    > Do you have a solution or workaround for this problem?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > MXU
    >
    >

    Murray *TMM* Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    Thanks again for all of this interesting info. I'm looking forward to applying slideout/popout menus to some exciting future project. But for the moment on my more boring current project all I'm need for the top nav bar is simple two state rollovers that will at the same time be FW friendly and DW templates friendly. A PVII solution might be the ticket to allow me to generate the buttom images in FW MX, but my question is this:

    Can I use PVII to generate a simple two state rollover without a popout or slideout feature? In other words, can I use a PVII product that might be capable of popouts, but which allows me to turn the popout feature off for a particular project?

    If so, which component or combination of components would you recommend?

    MXU


    MXUser_ webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    MX:

    If you only need a two-state rollover, then just build it with image swaps.
    You do not need any PVII product or extension to make it. Or am I not
    understanding what you want?

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO GET
    ANSWERS
    ==================
    [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
    [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    ==================

    "MXUser_" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bh97ot$os8$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Thanks again for all of this interesting info. I'm looking forward to
    applying slideout/popout menus to some exciting future project. But for the
    moment on my more boring current project all I'm need for the top nav bar is
    simple two state rollovers that will at the same time be FW friendly and DW
    templates friendly. A PVII solution might be the ticket to allow me to
    generate the buttom images in FW MX, but my question is this:
    >
    > Can I use PVII to generate a simple two state rollover without a popout or
    slideout feature? In other words, can I use a PVII product that might be
    capable of popouts, but which allows me to turn the popout feature off for a
    particular project?
    >
    > If so, which component or combination of components would you recommend?
    >
    > MXU
    >
    >

    Murray *TMM* Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    Murray,

    Since I'm relatively new to using DW (though not new to Web design), I had to do some checking to figure out what you meant by "just build it with image swaps". From looking at FW help that appears to be a technique one would use just to take one image and change it to another on mouseover. In other words, a single rollover image which is not necessarily part of the larger structure of a nav bar.

    The reason I'm asking about PVII is that it appears that it could allow me to take advantage of the efficiency of creating a nav bar within FW, then exporting it to DW. This involves simple image swaps, but also involves the additional structures involved in building a nav bar. And again, I'm hoping to build nav bars that work well inside of templates and nested templates.

    So that's why my question is:
    Can I use PVII to generate a simple two state rollover without a popout or slideout feature? In other words, can I use a PVII product that might be capable of popouts, but which also allows me to turn the popout feature off for a particular project?

    MXU


    MXUser_ webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    Since I'm running out of time, I phoned PVII and got the answer. Per Jerry at PVII I can use Menu Magic 2 to get this result in one of two ways:

    1) In the User Interface select the Nav Bar Only option, or
    2) If an MM2 generated already contains popout menus that I don't want, I can go to the Layers panel in DW and just delete the layers representing the popout portion of the menu.

    MXU


    MXUser_ webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Can Nav Bars automatically show down state?

    MX:

    Good luck - sorry I wasn't able to complete my response to you in a timely
    fashion. If you would still be interested in how to do this, please
    contact me offline -

    forums at great hyphen web hyphen sights period com.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO GET
    ANSWERS
    ==================
    [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
    [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    ==================

    "MXUser_" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bhb4gf$mkp$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Since I'm running out of time, I phoned PVII and got the answer. Per
    Jerry at PVII I can use Menu Magic 2 to get this result in one of two ways:
    >
    > 1) In the User Interface select the Nav Bar Only option, or
    > 2) If an MM2 generated already contains popout menus that I don't want, I
    can go to the Layers panel in DW and just delete the layers representing the
    popout portion of the menu.
    >
    > MXU
    >
    >

    Murray *TMM* Guest

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