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canon digital RAW files- whats the point - Photography

My canon s45 has the ability to shoot in Canon Raw Format; (not RAW) i cant open it in photoshop and can only open it with the canon viewer program. the raw file is much much larger than your standard hi-quality jpeg file. so whats the point of this raw file? is it only made to edit with the canon software then saved as a jpeg?? n.t...

  1. #1

    Default canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    My canon s45 has the ability to shoot in Canon Raw Format; (not RAW) i cant
    open it in photoshop and can only open it with the canon viewer program.
    the raw file is much much larger than your standard hi-quality jpeg file.
    so whats the point of this raw file? is it only made to edit with the canon
    software then saved as a jpeg??

    n.t


    nt Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    "nt" <privateprivate.com> wrote
    > My canon s45 has the ability to shoot in Canon Raw Format; (not RAW) i
    cant
    > open it in photoshop
    The is a plugin available called Adobe Camera RAW which will allow you to do
    just that. (PS7 only)
    > and can only open it with the canon viewer program.
    Breezebrowser is another very neat program designed to play with Canon RAW
    (CRW) files. There are several others out there too, from freeware to $$$.
    Let me know if you want some links.
    > the raw file is much much larger than your standard hi-quality jpeg file.
    > so whats the point of this raw file?
    There are many benefits of the RAW file:

    * Lossless correction of White Balance (WB) in post processing
    * Access to increased Color Depth, eg 10-12bits per pixel instead of the
    regular 8 bits per pixel
    * With some limitation the ability to make lossless exposure corrections in
    post
    * Ability to have all the benefits of a TIFF without the large file overhead
    when on the road
    > is it only made to edit with the canon
    > software then saved as a jpeg??
    Some of the third party software available can help you get a lot more out
    of your RAWs, it depends on what your goal is for your shots. For absolute
    control and retention of as much of the captured information as possible RAW
    is ideal. RAW file post processing can be time consuming though. If your
    ultimate goal is to display only on the web at low res, JPG is probably more
    than adequate.

    KC


    Ken Chandler Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point


    "nt" <privateprivate.com> wrote in message
    news:KXbOa.8742$eE.119789nasal.pacific.net.au...
    > My canon s45 has the ability to shoot in Canon Raw Format; (not RAW) i cant
    > open it in photoshop and can only open it with the canon viewer program.
    > the raw file is much much larger than your standard hi-quality jpeg file.
    > so whats the point of this raw file? is it only made to edit with the canon
    > software then saved as a jpeg??

    what Ken replied..

    if you're after a realy neat image management prog then head over to
    [url]www.irfanview.com[/url] , grab it and the plugins and life will be simpler '-)

    I still cannot believe how few people use irfanview to the fullest of it's
    potential!

    k

    furnace Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    > * Lossless correction of White Balance (WB) in post processing
    It's not lossless.


    Miro Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    Miro <miro01hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> * Lossless correction of White Balance (WB) in post processing
    >
    > It's not lossless.
    Perhaps you can clarify something for me here Miro... Are you too stupid
    to work out what he's refering to, or are you just trying to be a prick?

    My moneys on the latter, but only if I can't vote for both...

    Scott.
    Scott Howard Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point


    "Scott Howard" <scotthunterlink.net.au> wrote in message
    news:1057651963.724178docbert...
    > Miro <miro01hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >> * Lossless correction of White Balance (WB) in post processing
    > >
    > > It's not lossless.
    >
    > Perhaps you can clarify something for me here Miro... Are you too stupid
    > to work out what he's refering to, or are you just trying to be a prick?
    >
    > My moneys on the latter, but only if I can't vote for both...
    Why dont you just do what the hell pleases you. You obviously know nothing
    of the topic.


    Miro Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    " Miro" <miro01hotmail.com> wrote:
    > "Ken Chandler" <news_remove_.kenchandler.com> wrote:
    > > " Miro" <miro01hotmail.com> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > * Lossless correction of White Balance (WB) in post processing
    > > >
    > > > It's not lossless.
    > >
    > > Typical Miro reply.
    > >
    > > Thanks for taking the time to explain why.
    >
    > You have an 8-bit colour space
    With RAW you are NOT working with a 8 bit colorspace. The S45 (that the OP
    was talking about) has 36-bits per pixel, which is 12bit. But that's beside
    the point that was being made.
    > One should always move away from the idea that you get something from
    > nothing. Colour correction filters are as much a part of Digital as they
    are
    > with film. Only a neutral scene takes full advantage of a camera CCD or
    > CMOS. How you make it neutral to the camera is up to you.
    > > > > * Lossless correction of White Balance (WB) in post processing
    That is, you jag the one-time shot of your life in daylight, Oh no!, you

    a) Left the camera set to Tungsten from the night before
    or
    b) the camera Auto WB gets it wrong and you get a nice blue, or other color,
    cast.

    The RAW image holds all the data for what the camera saw at the time the
    shutter was open. The correct white balance can be chosen in post
    processing of the RAW file. The color shift in the RAW is Lossless, no data
    is thrown out, the histogram isn't raked or "posterised" as you put it.

    KC


    Ken Chandler Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    >
    > The RAW image holds all the data for what the camera saw at the time the
    > shutter was open. The correct white balance can be chosen in post
    > processing of the RAW file. The color shift in the RAW is Lossless, no
    data
    > is thrown out, the histogram isn't raked or "posterised" as you put it.
    >
    > KC
    >
    >
    It has been clearly demonstrated that the blue channel suffers the most when
    tungsten lit scenes are converted to daylight.

    Compared with the balanced shot done with a filter that information in the
    blue channel is enhanced.

    How you propose to do this with software is 90% marketing and 10% bullshi_


    Miro Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    "Auspics" <justthe.groups> wrote:
    > "Scott Howard" <scotthunterlink.net.au> wrote:
    > > Miro <miro01hotmail.com> wrote:
    > > > Ken Chandler wrote:
    > > >> * Lossless correction of White Balance (WB) in post processing
    > > >
    > > > It's not lossless.
    > >
    > > Perhaps you can clarify something for me here Miro... Are you too
    stupid
    > > to work out what he's refering to, or are you just trying to be a prick?
    >
    > It's not Lossless
    > JT
    See the big difference here is that Miro knows what he is talking about.
    Miro and I are talking about two different things however.

    "JT" on the other hand is a poor imitation of a troll.

    IMO of course.


    Ken Chandler Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    " Miro" <miro01hotmail.com> wrote:
    > It has been clearly demonstrated that the blue channel suffers the most
    when
    > tungsten lit scenes are converted to daylight.
    >
    > Compared with the balanced shot done with a filter that information in the
    > blue channel is enhanced.
    That is all nice, but it's got little to do with what is being discussed.
    > How you propose to do this with software is 90% marketing and 10% bullshi_
    It was a S45 for crying out loud, a sub $1000 PnS camera, hardly marketed a
    the type that is going to be running around with filters n' gels for every
    lighting condition.

    Take two pics in daylight using the tungsten WB, one as RAW, one as JPG.
    Which can you get back to reality (daylight) without throwing out data? Too
    extreme an example?

    Set the camera up for cloudy to take photos of your nieces first birthday in
    the park on an overcast day. Part way through the cloud clears and it's
    beautiful and sunny daylight, you forget to change the WB back. Which
    photos stand a better chance of color correction in post without throwing
    out data, RAW or JPG?

    Leave it on Auto WB? If only it /never/ got it wrong.

    KC


    Ken Chandler Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point


    "David in Perth" <friendelijahspamtraptnet.com.au> wrote in message
    news:3f095023$0$59959$c30e37c6lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
    > You should be able to save the image from the native format to an
    > uncompressed TIF file. I had the same problem with a Minolta DSLR.
    If you think RAW is a 'problem' with your Minolta camera, you didn't
    extensivly explore the advantages it could give you.
    >
    >
    >
    > "nt" <privateprivate.com> wrote in message
    > news:KXbOa.8742$eE.119789nasal.pacific.net.au...
    > > My canon s45 has the ability to shoot in Canon Raw Format; (not RAW) i
    > cant
    > > open it in photoshop and can only open it with the canon viewer
    program.
    > > the raw file is much much larger than your standard hi-quality jpeg
    file.
    > > so whats the point of this raw file? is it only made to edit with the
    > canon
    > > software then saved as a jpeg??
    > >
    > > n.t
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Mark Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    Brenton wrote:
    > Ken Chandler wrote:
    >
    > > See the big difference here is that Miro knows what he is talking about.
    > > Miro and I are talking about two different things however.
    >
    > Oh my #$$ I just fell off my chair backwards... did you really say that
    > Ken.
    Geez Brenton, It's not like it's the first time I've agreed with Uncle Miro
    :-P
    > PS... I agree... some time he has trouble saying it "NICELY" though.
    And I reckon sometimes he takes joy in being obtuse and purposely missing
    the point for arguments sake, don't you Unca, c'mon own up.


    Ken Chandler Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    Correct me if I'm wrong here Ken...
    Arn't you the bloke who tried to sway me from buying a SD9 on the basis of
    some journalists reprinting of another journo's work that was out of date
    anyway and couldn't put up one scientific or photographic, (verifiable) fact
    to substantiate your rantings... Or do I have the wrong person here?
    JT

    "Ken Chandler" <news_remove_.kenchandler.com> wrote in message
    news:3f0a8fe4$0$31276$afc38c87news.optusnet.com.a u...
    > "Auspics" <justthe.groups> wrote:
    > > "Scott Howard" <scotthunterlink.net.au> wrote:
    > > > Miro <miro01hotmail.com> wrote:
    > > > > Ken Chandler wrote:
    > > > >> * Lossless correction of White Balance (WB) in post processing
    > > > >
    > > > > It's not lossless.
    > > >
    > > > Perhaps you can clarify something for me here Miro... Are you too
    > stupid
    > > > to work out what he's refering to, or are you just trying to be a
    prick?
    > >
    > > It's not Lossless
    > > JT
    >
    > See the big difference here is that Miro knows what he is talking about.
    > Miro and I are talking about two different things however.
    >
    > "JT" on the other hand is a poor imitation of a troll.
    >
    > IMO of course.
    >
    >

    Auspics Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    "Auspics" <justthe.groups> wrote:
    > Correct me if I'm wrong here Ken...
    > Arn't you the bloke who tried to sway me from buying a SD9 on the basis of
    > some journalists reprinting of another journo's work that was out of date
    > anyway and couldn't put up one scientific or photographic, (verifiable)
    fact
    > to substantiate your rantings... Or do I have the wrong person here?
    > JT
    Can't say I recall it.

    There was some bloke "Justin Tyme" who started two threads:

    "Sigma Digital SLR" and "Biting the bullet (for a Sigma!)" on the 28May and
    3rd June respectively.

    Here is my only contribution to the threads:
    -----------------------------------------------------
    "Andrew G" <dalineanstarday.com.au> wrote:
    > looks like holden vs ford .......
    > and this guy just bought a toyota.......
    >
    > and you havent been sold.
    >
    LMAO, quote of the day.

    Thanks for that Andrew.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    "Justin Tyme" bought the camera though, cos within 20 days he stated here on
    the forums that he had already shot over 6000 images with the SD9 without a
    problem.

    Can't recall any recent thread on the SD9 other than these two.

    KC


    Ken Chandler Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    I think by describing this incident as a problem, he was referring to the
    fact that he couldnt open this file on Photoshop, and had to convert it to
    tiff before editing........ I dont think a person who invests considerable
    amounts of money on a DSLR, doesnt know what to do with it.....

    n.t.


    "Mark" <nono.com> wrote in message
    news:beeios$482ut$1ID-107783.news.dfncis.de...
    >
    > "David in Perth" <friendelijahspamtraptnet.com.au> wrote in message
    > news:3f095023$0$59959$c30e37c6lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
    > > You should be able to save the image from the native format to an
    > > uncompressed TIF file. I had the same problem with a Minolta DSLR.
    >
    > If you think RAW is a 'problem' with your Minolta camera, you didn't
    > extensivly explore the advantages it could give you.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "nt" <privateprivate.com> wrote in message
    > > news:KXbOa.8742$eE.119789nasal.pacific.net.au...
    > > > My canon s45 has the ability to shoot in Canon Raw Format; (not RAW) i
    > > cant
    > > > open it in photoshop and can only open it with the canon viewer
    > program.
    > > > the raw file is much much larger than your standard hi-quality jpeg
    > file.
    > > > so whats the point of this raw file? is it only made to edit with the
    > > canon
    > > > software then saved as a jpeg??
    > > >
    > > > n.t
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    nt Guest

  16. Moderated Post

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

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    Miro Guest
    Moderated Post

  17. Moderated Post

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

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    Miro Guest
    Moderated Post

  18. #18

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point


    "Lionel" <nopalt.net> wrote in message news:befv93$ks2$1pita.alt.net...
    > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:22:38 +1000, in
    > <3f0b6e67$0$26633$afc38c87news.optusnet.com.au> , " Miro"
    > <miro01hotmail.com> said:
    >
    > >> Not in Canon RAW format. It's 12 bits, not 8. You're also usually
    > >> editing in 16 bit space, so there's plenty of room for lossless
    > >> manipulation - thus, no posterisation. (Well, unless you do really
    > >> extreme changes that push data out of band.)
    > >
    > >And what happens to the compressed and expanded levels on either side of
    the
    > >midpoint in the blue layer that is being pushed around.
    >
    > I already covered that - 16 bits gives you enough range to prevent
    > aliasing, unless, as I already said, you push it too hard.
    >
    You dont understand.
    1) The pixels are nothing more than a checkerboard that has been filled in.
    2) You can have 1000000000 bit colour and you will still change the
    relationship to colour on either side of the midpoint.

    That is stretch and compress. I can think of at least 3 ways to call that
    posterized and just because it is smoothed ad-infinitum you expect me to
    believe its all cool and two thumbs up.

    Since when does 16bit go beyond black and white. On or Off. RTFM.


    Miro Guest

  19. Moderated Post

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    Removed by Administrator
    Andrew Mc Guest
    Moderated Post

  20. #20

    Default Re: canon digital RAW files- whats the point

    >
    > I think I'll stick with fixing my incorrectly white-balanced images in
    > software, rather than taping filters over the lenses of my cameras,
    > thanks very much.
    >
    Make sure you use a Canon PC. You really are mislead.


    Miro Guest

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