Professional Web Applications Themes

Canon RebleXT vs. 20D? - Photography

Does anyone who has tried the XT have on opinion as to whether the 20D is worth $500 more? I'm most interested in shutter lag. I'd really like a digital camera that could do as good a job as a $5 throw-away film camera when it came to letting ME decide when to take the picture. For 150 years photographers said "the critical instant" was what made great pictures now along comes digital and that apparently becomes unimportant -- let the processor decide. I'll pay the extra $500 to get that control back, but not if I don't have to. ...

  1. #1

    Default Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    Does anyone who has tried the XT have on opinion as to whether the 20D is
    worth $500 more? I'm most interested in shutter lag. I'd really like a
    digital camera that could do as good a job as a $5 throw-away film camera
    when it came to letting ME decide when to take the picture. For 150 years
    photographers said "the critical instant" was what made great pictures now
    along comes digital and that apparently becomes unimportant -- let the
    processor decide. I'll pay the extra $500 to get that control back, but not
    if I don't have to. Thanks in advance.
    Brian


    Brian Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    "Brian Downey" <com> wrote in message
    news:EqcYd.16754$news.prodigy.com... 

    None of the DSLR's have the "shutterlag" problem . It's a problem that
    consumer level point and shoots and ZLR suffer from.


    canongirly Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:25:42 -0000, "canongirly" <com> wrote:
     

    Hmm. Not the most ingeniuos of answers concomitantly with Alan's "the
    shutter lag of Maxxum 7D s" thread.

    Jan Böhme
    Jan Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    canongirly wrote:
     

    All SLR cameras have shutter lag. On something like the EOS-1ns
    "pelicule" which has a semi-silvered mirror that does not flip up, the
    light goes through (penalty of 1 stop of light), it is on the order of 6 ms.

    On the Maxxum 9 (and most high end SLR's) it is about 50 - 60 ms, the
    EOS-1v (IIRC) is about 40-45 ms. On the Maxxum 7D it is looking to be
    at least 100 or so ms. This requires more anticipation for sports shots
    and results in a higher 'miss' rate for "ball on bat" type shots.

    While these delays seem puny compared to the P&S and some/all ZLR's, it
    is an important point to photos that require close timing with the action.

    There is definitely a case to be made for a pelicule SLR without a
    mechanical shutter (a s/w gated shutter (A la Nikon D70 flash sync)).
    One of the Oly zlr's works like this as well, I believe (no mirror up,
    no mechanical shutter).

    Cheers,
    Alan.






    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?


    "Jan Böhme" <this.out.sh.se> wrote in message
    news:com... [/ref]
     

    All SLR's have shutterlag... they need time to get the mirror up out of the
    way. Camera systems without mirrors were the standard by which these things
    are judged. (how long does it take for the shutter curtain to start to open
    once you click the mechanical release?)

    But compared to early digital P&S's the shutter lag on most DSLR's is so
    slight as to not matter to most people... and only those who take pictures
    in such a way as they can't anticipate a couple of tenths of a second (at
    most) will be bothered by it.

    I honestly got used to what little lag there was on my old P&S cameras... as
    long as you pre-focus/exposure then the lost time was minimal and
    anticipating the moment by that extra tiny bit of time was not too hard.

    Al...


    Alan Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?


    "Alan Browne" <ca> wrote in message
    news:d0sfbv$aa4$gazeta.pl... 
    >
    > All SLR cameras have shutter lag. On something like the EOS-1ns
    > "pelicule" which has a semi-silvered mirror that does not flip up, the[/ref]
    snip 
    Well the shutter lag on the 300D's and 10D's I use "can" be measured if you
    have access to some very sophiscated timing equipment, whereas the shutter
    lag on my previous fuji s602z could be measured by leaving the room making a
    cup of tea, reading a newspaper, starting a family and moving to another
    town. ( I may have exagerated a bit here).

    As I believe the original poster was/is more concerned with a shutterlag of
    10ths of a secound By comparision the millisecounds lag of any DSLR is sod
    all, barely noticable, comparable to ANY film slr, and not really worth
    talking about.

    OK?


    canongirly Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    Thank you all for the info.
    If there isn't any noticeable shutter lag differences, then are there other
    differences that (in your experienced opinions) would warrant going for the
    20D over the new RebelXT?


    "Brian Downey" <com> wrote in message
    news:EqcYd.16754$news.prodigy.com... 
    not 


    Brian Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    canongirly wrote:
     

    No, Not OK. As I stated, for some shooting, shutter lag, even if only
    1/10th of a second is a lot. You don't need very sophisticated
    equipment to measure it either. On the Canon's you mention (300D, 10D),
    the shutter lag is on the order of 50ms (not couinting human reaction
    time). Even this is enough that the photographer has to anticipate and
    depress the shutter ahead of the action. For example, try catching a
    tenis ball in the racket on a hard return...

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    In article <d0sfbv$aa4$gazeta.pl>,
    Alan Browne <ca> wrote: 

    Minor nitpick: the EOS-1N RT loses around half a stop of exposure, with
    70% of the light passing through the mirror. Of course this means that
    only 30% goes to the viewfinder, so it's a bit awkward to use in low light.
    But that's not the typical scenario under which these cameras are used.



    John Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    John Francis wrote:
     
    >
    >
    > Minor nitpick: the EOS-1N RT loses around half a stop of exposure, with
    > 70% of the light passing through the mirror. Of course this means that
    > only 30% goes to the viewfinder, so it's a bit awkward to use in low light.
    > But that's not the typical scenario under which these cameras are used.[/ref]

    Thanks for the clarification. (Also the RT (not NS)).

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?


    "Brian Downey" <com> wrote in message
    news:EqcYd.16754$news.prodigy.com... 

    I don't see how the 350 is going to focus faster than the 20, and that is
    where the "lag" is.


    Dave Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?


    "Brian Downey" <com> wrote in message
    news:7FkYd.16843$news.prodigy.com... 

    The 20D is more rugged and more flexible. Might be important, depending on
    your needs and how the camera will be used and treated.


    Charles Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    Dave R knows who wrote:

     

    The shutter lag that is of consequence is that that occurs after the
    shutter (and possibly exposure) is locked (half-depressed shutter
    button) to the time exposure begins. This is typically in the 50 - 60
    ms range on high end SLR's. Exceptional SLR's (EOS-1n RT) have lags of
    6 ms making them ideal for sports.

    To include focus in there means looking at it for each lens for the
    camera as some lenses are quicker than others.

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    In article <d0sk88$ifv$svr.pol.co.uk>, "canongirly" <com>
    wrote:
     

    Hehehehe! Do ya think? [ROFL] :)
     

    Heck, I endured "lag" with my T90 & 1.4 50 mm lens at 1/500. In this case,
    the lag was ME focusing. :)

    Seriously, if there is any "shutterlag" on my 20D, it would be the autofocus
    system doing its thing prior to EVERY frame. Heck, I'll bet if one turned-OFF
    the AF, this thing could sound like a machine gun for five minutes!

    I just shot the action of my first grandchild's 3rd birthday gift opening and
    cake desecrating^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcandle lighting. I used the 580EX flash
    and am VERY pleased with the results. I don't recall being concerned with LAG
    of any sort during this event.

    My most valuable lesson with my new camera from this event:
    I need another CF card.

    I shoot highest quality w/RAW. According to the camera using the SanDisk
    Ultra II 1GB card, that gives me 77 frames. For the first time since I got
    the camera, I used all but 7 frames before there was a lull in the action and
    I could look at the camera. I used the on-board LCD and nuked a handful of
    obvious stinkers. That gave me enough to finish the day.

    I assume that Canon put their newest image processor, Digic II, found on the
    20D and EOS 1Ds Mark II, into the 350. Given that, I would expect the shutter
    "lag" to be as negligible on the 350 as it is on these cameras.

    Whether there are other differences between the 350 and 20D that make the
    difference in their prices worth buying the 20D is certainly debatable. I am
    thankful that I love my 20D, especially considering I paid $1500 for it.

    :)
    JR
    Jim Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    In article <d0sl01$3tb$gazeta.pl>,
    Alan Browne <ca> wrote:
     

    This it NOT an issue that I have experienced with my "new" camera.
     

    Agreed. But, fer pete's sake, try that with a FILM camera. Are you going to
    try to capture that in ONE frame on the FIRST try?

    I wouldn't. It would be motor drive all the way and hope for the best. Do it
    a couple or three times, using an entire roll or two of your best film and you
    MIGHT catch an eye-popping Action Shot of the Century.

    IOW, yours is probably not a the best example of the necessity of anticipating
    a shot - compensating for digital shutterlag. Catching a kid ing out
    candles on a cake comes to mind.

    To catch this JUST RIGHT with a P&S (POS?<g>), one would have to make a
    SERIOUSLY intended anticipation of when the shutter would ACTUALLY release.
    With my 20D, the kid s and I pull the trigger. Done. GREAT frame. Look,
    Ma! No lag!

    (OK, OK... No APPRECIABLE lag to this 51-year-old experienced SLR user.)

    We did a (strictly informal) digital camera "shoot out" at our "computer"
    meeting a while back. Mine was the only SLR. The highest end was a 6MP P&S
    and the oldest a 2MP. The newest and "highest end" camera, other than mine,
    had a noticeable lag in time between shutter button press and actual shutter
    release. The other cameras displayed the same behavior.

    Then came my show. During the interval that all the other cameras "lagged", I
    peeled-off about a half-dozen shots! I "humbly" apologized to the group for
    "accidentally" having the multi-shot function set to ON! <g>

    :)
    JR
    Jim Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    In article <7FkYd.16843$news.prodigy.com>,
    "Brian Downey" <com> wrote:
     

    There are some notibeable differences. I think they would be enough for ME to
    spend the extra $ and get the 20D.

    Check-out this page and do your own comparison side-by-side. It's very handy
    and revealing:

    <http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sidebyside.asp>

    In any case, I'm sure the RebelXT (350D) would please me JUST as much as I am
    now with my 20D.

    :)
    JR
    Jim Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    In article <central.cox.net>,
    Jim Redelfs <com> wrote:
     

    The XT will make a great travel DSLR. I tried one yesterday at B&H and
    I think it is the perfect size. I have a 10D and intend to get an XT in
    a few weeks. I think the XT is better than the 10D. It is not crippled
    like the first digital Rebel. I will keep the 10D as a backup. If one
    can afford it one should always have at least two camera bodies. I do
    think the 20D is better than the XT but not enough better for me, since
    it is a hobby for me, not a living. If the XT had not come out I would
    have waited for the successor to the 20D. At the rate of change which I
    think will go on for a few years before there is a plateau I think my
    strategy will be to go with the "Rebel" level, more cost efficient, and
    build up my lens collection.

    --
    Charles
    Charles Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    Jim Redelfs wrote:

     
    >
    >
    > Agreed. But, fer pete's sake, try that with a FILM camera. Are you going to
    > try to capture that in ONE frame on the FIRST try?[/ref]

    Film or digital, you know from the viewfinder if you're hitting it
    close. Add flash, and take your eye out of the viewfinder for a few
    shots (or filmless shots) to 'calibrate' the lead.
     

    I was shooting my volleyball gang the other night. With my Maxxum 9 it
    requires the barest anticipation to catch a ball flush in the smash or
    flush on the block. With the Maxxum 7D, the lag was so much longer that
    trying to 'calibrate' that anticipation was much harder. (Combined
    human+shutter lag is about 200ms with the 7D).

    As I was adding strobes to the shot (two, placed in gym corners) to
    allow lower ISO shooting, and to make ball trails/frozen ball, 'motor
    drive" shooting was not possible. (And it's not something I do in any
    case).

    http://www.aliasimages.com/images/pict0381SC.jpg 1/10s, cropped.

    (You'll also notice on this shot, that the rear-curtain sync seems to
    fire a hair too early as there is one image of the ball after the frozen
    image. The 'strobing effect' of the blurred balls is from the ambient
    Hg lighting).
     

    I had a few v'ball players say, "How is it you got the flash to go at
    the heat of the action?" (They're all used to their P,S&W's. (W=wait)).


    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
    Alan Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    In article <central.cox.net>,
    Jim Redelfs <com> wrote: 
    >
    >Agreed. But, fer pete's sake, try that with a FILM camera. Are you going to
    >try to capture that in ONE frame on the FIRST try?
    >
    >I wouldn't. It would be motor drive all the way and hope for the best.[/ref]

    That's just about the best way to guarantee you *won't* get the shot.

    Even with the fastest motor drives, you're only going to get 10fps
    on a film camera (and not even that on a digital, as far as I can see).

    That means you've got around 1/10 of a second between shots; an eternity
    compared to just how long the ball is in the best place for the shot.
    Relying on the camera to pick the moment of exposure is a bad idea -
    you need to be watching yourself, and anticipate the perfect moment.

    Bear in mind that a tennis ball starts off travelling at anything
    up to 140mph, and is still going to be travelling at at least 60mph
    by the time it gets to the returner. That's around 100fps, so it
    travels about ten feet in that 1/10 of a second. Admittedly it
    dwells on the racket a bit, even with todays high tension strings,
    but the racket head is also travelling at those sort of speeds.
    With a little practice you can easily time the shot so that the
    racket is within a foot of the ideal position; that's five times
    the precision you'll get by machine-gunning with a 10fps drive.


    John Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Canon RebleXT vs. 20D?

    In article <120320050949313936%com>, Charles <com>
    wrote:
     

    Agreed. Since I made the switch from film to digital, however, I am back to
    ONE body for now.

    The 350D is very attractive as a second body to my 20D.
     

    Same here.

    I bought my 20D last November and haven't looked back. If I had waited until
    now, it might be a different model - the 350D.
     

    Not to worry. I already had a nice collection of Canon FD lenses when I
    bought my second body - the T90. The EOS system was barely 2 years old. I
    chose to STAY with the mount/system of the day and enjoy years of use of TWO,
    fine bodies.

    Today, its still EOS. I finally bought in.

    With my timing and luck, Canon will announce a new mount immediately AFTER I
    buy additional EOS lenses or another body.

    <sigh>
    JR
    Jim Guest

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Canon 1Ds Mark-II + Canon 70-200mm f2.8 L IS lens
    By Siddhartha in forum Photography
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: February 5th, 11:43 PM
  2. Zoom lens for Canon 300D - Tamron/Canon
    By Siddhartha in forum Photography
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: January 16th, 04:35 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 16th, 01:56 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139