Clipping paths - for sculpture brochure (varnished printing)

[Andrea_Russell@adobeforums.com]

I designed a brochure that has images on it that I want to varnish during the printing process. =

What is the best way to go about doing this?

I have the files built in photoshop. So what I did was seperate the background from my actual piece carvings mostly that I want to have the varnish. Imported it into InDesign then I made a clipping path around it so that my clipping path and actual peice are exactly the same so that it does not look uneven during printing.

Is this the way to do it or are there better ways. Please let me know if you know. I dont really even know what to call this other than varnish and clipping paths.
Thanks

[Bob Levine]

There are several ways, but I would duplicate the selection of the
clipping path and create a new spot channel in Photoshop with it. Fill
it with any spot color (I usually use a red) and then save the file as PSD.

Place the PSD in InDesign. The spot channel will overprint by default so
you just need to tell the printer what you've done and which color to
replace with varnish.

Bob

[Sandee_Cohen@adobeforums.com]

I would do it slightly differently.

Just import the psd file with the path in it. Don't designate as clipping or anything.

Then, duplicate the image in place, and go to Clipping Paths, and select the path. Now, here's the tricky part, RIGHT-MOUSE or CONTROL-CLICK this second image and choose Change Clipping path to Frame.

Then, delete the image but not the frame. This frame is the exact size of the varnish you want.

Create a spot color called Varnish in InDesign and fill the path/frame with that color. Set the spot color to 100% tint and then set the object to Multiply. This will force the spot color to overprint the image so that it doesn't knock out the image below.

[Peter_Truskier@adobeforums.com]

Sandee,

I was about to write pretty much the same thing as you did. But, on further thought, I think that Bob's approach may be better in many cases. It has two potential advantages - first, you needn't keep two InDesign objects in precise alignment, and run the risk of moving or altering one and not the other.

Also, the work done to create the varnish plate can be re-used in another page layout document should it be necessary - even at different sizes or rotations, it's trivial. And, with InDesign's ability to control PSD layer visibility, you could use the same image in a document that did not require the varnish plate.

Do you see any drawbacks to Bob's method that I'm missing?

[Bob Levine]

I like it for other reasons, too.

Think about a soft edged mask instead of a hard clipping path. You can
duplicate the mask, invert it and create a spot channel with that.
You'll get a nice soft edge for the varnish plate.

Bob

[Andrea_Russell@adobeforums.com]

Im not sure I understand until I go try it. But I like Bobs last comment.... A lot of my peices have been retouched and I like to do a 1 point feather on everything. So if I did my clipping path in InDesign there would be a hard edge. I would love to figure out how to do the path with a little feather or soft edge... I will give it a try and report back with questions.. what can't you do with these programs they are amazing.. I learn something new everyday...
Thank you!

[Sandee_Cohen@adobeforums.com]

Also, the work done to create the varnish plate can be re-used in another
page layout document ... And, ... you could use the same image in a document
that did not require the varnish plate.





Think about a soft edged mask instead of a hard clipping path. You can
duplicate the mask, invert it and create a spot channel with that. You'll
get a nice soft edge for the varnish plate.





I think Bob's solution is very worthy.

And for most of the above reasons. But here's why I like the ID solution:

First, the color object is right in ID. Printers can get confused with spot color channels which are not that common in psd files. They can also easily modify the object if they feel the varnish plate needs to be bigger or smaller or smoother. This is not as important with varnish plates as it is with die-cuts or embossing mats.

Bob's solution should be modified though, to define a spot color as varnish and set it for a yellowish color. And a lower solidity so that the rest of the image can be seen.

I don't like telling anyone to swap one color for another.

However, while I doubt that anyone would like the effect of a screened varnish, I can make the object a soft-edge with the Feather command. ;-)

[Andrea_Russell@adobeforums.com]

Ok I tried this myself. In photoshop I selected the exact shape of my sculpture that I want to appear varnished. I then created its own layer and placed a color over it. This is all in CMYK. Then I went to import that PSD file into In Design. It is just a white square with the image in red on it. I obviously don't 100% understand what you all are trying to tell me. Could you say it in more of a first timer kind of way? I plan to go sit with the printer and discuss it on Monday but I would like to have it done properly so it can be approved and complete by then. Any easeir way to explain or anywhere to send me to learn more? I can get it I am pretty savy I just dont know anything about this...

[Bob Levine]

> I don't like telling anyone to swap one color for another.

Neither do I but with a varnish what choice do you have?

Bob

[John_Slate@adobeforums.com]

From the original post:

Imported it into InDesign then I made a clipping path




Using the detect edges method in CS2?

Not available in CS1.

So Sandee's instructions in #2: "Just import the psd file with the path in it." has no basis to the OP's workflow.

Tangent: has anybody found detect edges to be a good way to make a high-quality clippling path? To me it smells too much like converting a magic wand selection to a path, or even worse: non-white clipping in Quack.

There are a variety of methods to do this and all the methods in this thread are basically sound, but I would shy away from trying to include the varnish with the rest of the printing. Sure you can do it, but it will mess up a composite printout. I have always created varnishes in completely separate documents from the color images they will print on.

[Bob Levine]

> but it will mess up a composite printout.

Go into the ink manager and turn it off. Voila...four color with no varnish.

Bob

[Bob Levine]

A couple of more "rebuttals" now that I've had some sleep:

> Bob's solution should be modified though, to define a spot color as varnish and set it for a yellowish color.

Why yellow? I like the red because when overprint preview is on, it
looks like quickmask mode in Photoshop.

> And a lower solidity so that the rest of the image can be seen.

Once placed in ID you can see the whole image with overprint preview
enabled.

Bob

[wa veghel]

Set the spot color to 100% tint and then set the object to Multiply. This
will force the spot color to overprint the image so that it doesn't knock
out the image below.




Eh? Why not simply set to overprint and choose show overprint...?

[Bob Levine]

Sandee just likes using the cool stuff. <g>

Bob

[John_Slate@adobeforums.com]

Go into the ink manager and turn it off. Voila...four color with no varnish




I was not aware that you could turn colors off in Ink Manager.

I'm not at work where I have CS2, but I sure don't see the option in CS.

[Bob Levine]

I should have been a bit more specific and going back and re-reading
Sandee's point, you're right. I was referring to outputting separations
for press and just ignoring the plate.

I stand corrected here. If you're going to be outputting composite
perhaps having the varnish on its own is a better idea.

Bob

[John_Slate@adobeforums.com]

....or on it's own layer in InDesign that can be turned on and off

[John_Slate@adobeforums.com]

As I understand it Andrea has all of her sculptures in Photoshop on layers, with a transparent background.

That being the case, I would vote for not using clipping paths at all. As Andrea points out they are hard edged (1bit transparency). Clipping paths is old-school (where's Buko when you need him?)

If I was her I would just place the PSDs, and not generate a clipping path in InDesign at all.

This is how I would prepare the varnish:

1- Open the layered color images in Photoshop.

1 1/2- If there are any shadow layers, trash them... or trash any shadow layer effects.

2- Shift-Cmd-E (merge visible)

3- Lock the transparency of the remaining layer (the little checkerboard button to the right of "lock" at the top of the layers palette).

4- Edit>Fill>Black (Normal/100%)

5- Image>Mode>Grayscale

6- Flatten, and save-as a tiff with the appropriate name "<filename>varn.tif"

7- In InDesign make a new layer on top called "Varnish".

8- Select each sculpture image and in the layer palette, option-drag the little square to the varnish layer to copy it in place.

9- Choose each one and from links flyout choose to relink, and put in the varnish tiffs.

At this point you have a workable file. What you do next is a matter of personal preference.

Your printer will turn off the varnish layer to print the 4-color and vice-versa to print the varnish, leaving it in black. The printers will just plate the black plate for the varnish and print varnish.

Sandee's misgivings about having a printer swap colors, is overly cautious. Using a proxy-color workflow is something we printers have been doing for years, plus if any printer out there actually printed the varnish plate in black ink it would be somewhat obvious, no?

But if it really makes you nervous, you can add a new spot ink in InDesign, using the color of your choice, and use the direct-select tool to apply this color to the tiffs on the varnish layer.

Additionally, you can set the blending mode of all the varnish tiffs to multiply. This is a nice touch to verify that the position of all the varnishes is exact.

Also, you may choose NOT to flatten your tiffs and save them with the transparency, but this will double the amount of data you save for the varnishes, while producing the same end result.

PS: I would say, of the jobs that required spot varnishes that I have done over the years 99% were NOT prepared by the designer, but rather were setup at the printer (me). To do so as a designer will put you in a very favorable light in any printer's eyes.

[Buko@adobeforums.com]

where's Buko when you need him?




I was busy. Screw the clipping path.

place the clipped statue with a transparent background as a PSD.

In photoshop control click the statue make a new spot color and fill the selection.

You now have a CMYK with spot, place that in ID.

Export a PDF, tell the printer that the spot is varnish.

I do this for printing 4 color CD art where the spot is the white underlay.

[Bob Levine]

> I was busy.

Too busy to read post one? <g>

Bob