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Cocoa Newbie - Mac Programming

I've asked this question before, but I don't remember the answer, so if anyone could reply to this, it would be a help. Thanks I would like to know how to make my own Mac applications using Cocoa/Objective C. I know enough C/C++ to get around, and I am currently reading "Teach Yourself C in 21 Days". I have heard the Cocoa isn't all that hard to learn, and I am wondering what books would be the best to learn Cocoa/Objective C with. I have O'Reily and Apple's "Learning Cocoa" (not learning Cocoa with objective C), and although some of ...

  1. #1

    Default Cocoa Newbie

    I've asked this question before, but I don't remember the answer, so if
    anyone could reply to this, it would be a help. Thanks


    I would like to know how to make my own Mac applications using
    Cocoa/Objective C. I know enough C/C++ to get around, and I am
    currently reading "Teach Yourself C in 21 Days". I have heard the Cocoa
    isn't all that hard to learn, and I am wondering what books would be
    the best to learn Cocoa/Objective C with. I have O'Reily and Apple's
    "Learning Cocoa" (not learning Cocoa with objective C), and although
    some of it is helpfull, I just can't seem to get my head around some of
    it.
    I use RealBasic a lot, and I am familiar with object-orientated
    programing. I am sick of Real continuting to release new versions of
    REALBasic every few months, and I'm tired of the restrictions that
    REALBasic has.
    Again, if someone can help me and tell what books can help me to learn
    Cocoa/Objective C, I wqould be very appriecative. Thanks


    BM Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    BM <com> wrote: 
    I've asked this question before, but I don't remember the answer, so if 
    Welcome BM,
    I'm also a newbie. I started eight month ago without knowing c /c++. Therefor I had to
    read a book about ANSI C first. I had "Learning Cocoa with Objective-C" from ADC / O'Reilly
    which was good for the first month. "Cocoa Programming" from S.Anguish, E.M. Buck, D.A.
    Yacktman (SAMS) became my best friend over the last four month.

    Florian Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    BM <com> wrote:
     

    Well, try to do better this time! :)
     

    Hillegass and the online docs are all you need. m.

    --
    matt neuburg, phd = com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
    AppleScript: The Definitive Guide
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571/somethingsbymatt
    Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
    matt Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    In article <2004071715110016807%inspectordreyfushotmailcom >,
    BM <com> wrote:
     

    Some books were mentioned. Hillegass is, IMO, a great tutorial. The
    Anguish, et al book is better, I think, once you've got off the ground.
    Another very valuable resource is this group. If there are specific
    concepts that you're having trouble with no matter how you try, ask here.
     

    I can't think of a way to make sure this question doesn't sound
    confrontational, so please understand it's not meant as a challenge but
    as a way to elicit information to help provide you with appropriate
    resources: What's your background that leads you to state that you are
    familiar with OO programming?

    G

    --
    Standard output is like your butt. Everyone has one. When using a bathroom,
    they all default to going into a toilet. However, a person can redirect his
    "standard output" to somewhere else, if he so chooses. - Jeremy Nixon
    Gregory Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    On 2004-07-17 18:20:57 -0300, Gregory Weston
    <com> said:
     
    >
    > Some books were mentioned. Hillegass is, IMO, a great tutorial. The
    > Anguish, et al book is better, I think, once you've got off the ground.
    > Another very valuable resource is this group. If there are specific
    > concepts that you're having trouble with no matter how you try, ask
    > here.

    >
    > I can't think of a way to make sure this question doesn't sound
    > confrontational, so please understand it's not meant as a challenge but
    > as a way to elicit information to help provide you with appropriate
    > resources: What's your background that leads you to state that you are
    > familiar with OO programming?
    >
    > G[/ref]

    I suppose I don't know what makes me say that. I know that REALBasic is
    an OOP language, and I also am farmiliar with a bit of Java,
    javascript, and PHP which, I was told, were all OOP languages. I may be
    wrong.

    Blair Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    Blair Macdonald <com> wrote in message news:<2004071719542411272%inspectordreyfushotmail com>... 
    > >
    > > Some books were mentioned. Hillegass is, IMO, a great tutorial. The
    > > Anguish, et al book is better, I think, once you've got off the ground.
    > > Another very valuable resource is this group. If there are specific
    > > concepts that you're having trouble with no matter how you try, ask
    > > here.
    > > 
    > >
    > > I can't think of a way to make sure this question doesn't sound
    > > confrontational, so please understand it's not meant as a challenge but
    > > as a way to elicit information to help provide you with appropriate
    > > resources: What's your background that leads you to state that you are
    > > familiar with OO programming?
    > >
    > > G[/ref]
    >
    > I suppose I don't know what makes me say that. I know that REALBasic is
    > an OOP language, and I also am farmiliar with a bit of Java,
    > javascript, and PHP which, I was told, were all OOP languages. I may be
    > wrong.[/ref]

    Hi.

    I am also going to start developing an application for Mac, to program
    a synthesizer. I therefore need support for MIDI, does anybody know if
    this is supported with Cocoa?
    Also, is Cocoa really included in Mac OS-X?

    Best regards
    /Mats, Gothenburg, Sweden
    Mats Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    In article <google.com>,
    se (Mats) wrote:
     

    OS X includes some frameworks to support the development of MIDI client
    applications, but it's been a decade since I looked at writing MIDI
    software (and I never got around to starting to actually code it then)
    so I couldn't really tell you whether it's complete and what range of
    apps it's useful for.
     

    Cocoa is an integral part of OS X, but I think you're asking about the
    development tools. When you buy a new machine there should be an
    installer in /Applications/Installers. If you buy the OS in a
    shrinkwrapped box, you'll get installation media for the dev tools. You
    can also sign up for a free membership to Apple's developer program and
    download the latest public build of the toolchain. Most people, I think,
    would say that you should do that.

    --
    Standard output is like your butt. Everyone has one. When using a bathroom,
    they all default to going into a toilet. However, a person can redirect his
    "standard output" to somewhere else, if he so chooses. - Jeremy Nixon
    Gregory Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    In article <2004071719542411272%inspectordreyfushotmailcom >,
    Blair Macdonald <com> wrote:
     
    >
    > I suppose I don't know what makes me say that. I know that REALBasic is
    > an OOP language, and I also am farmiliar with a bit of Java,
    > javascript, and PHP which, I was told, were all OOP languages. I may be
    > wrong.[/ref]

    Okay. I'm guessing that among the things you're having trouble getting
    your head around are:
    - The syntax and nature of Objective-C's message sending.
    - The model-view-controller paradigm that Apple espouses.

    Good guesses or completely off-base?

    --
    Standard output is like your butt. Everyone has one. When using a bathroom,
    they all default to going into a toilet. However, a person can redirect his
    "standard output" to somewhere else, if he so chooses. - Jeremy Nixon
    Gregory Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    On 2004-07-18 09:00:14 -0300, Gregory Weston
    <com> said:
     
    >>
    >> I suppose I don't know what makes me say that. I know that REALBasic is
    >> an OOP language, and I also am farmiliar with a bit of Java,
    >> javascript, and PHP which, I was told, were all OOP languages. I may be
    >> wrong.[/ref]
    >
    > Okay. I'm guessing that among the things you're having trouble getting
    > your head around are:
    > - The syntax and nature of Objective-C's message sending.
    > - The model-view-controller paradigm that Apple espouses.
    >
    > Good guesses or completely off-base?[/ref]

    Yes, that's exactly right. I don't know any of the syntaxes, and I
    don't get all the colons(:).
    The model-view-controller paradigm is also confusing.
    --
    If you're not part of the solution, there's good money to be made in
    prolonging the problem

    BM Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    In article <2004071809261629000%inspectordreyfushotmailcom >,
    BM <com> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > Okay. I'm guessing that among the things you're having trouble getting
    > > your head around are:
    > > - The syntax and nature of Objective-C's message sending.
    > > - The model-view-controller paradigm that Apple espouses.
    > >
    > > Good guesses or completely off-base?[/ref]
    >
    > Yes, that's exactly right. I don't know any of the syntaxes, and I
    > don't get all the colons(:).[/ref]

    Objective-C is C with a very small set of additions to support OO
    programming. The syntax for the additions was drawn from Smalltalk.
    While it can be a little off-putting initially, many people find that
    it's easier to work with because it's more self-doenting. To draw a
    counter-example from Cocoa itself, how big is this rectangle?

    NSRect foo = NSMakeRect(10,10,25,15);

    Fair guess is that (10,10) is one of the corners, but are the other two
    arguments the opposite corner or are they height and width. And in what
    order?

    MyRect* foo = [MyRect rectWithX:10 y:10 width:25 height:15];

    It's really just infix notation instead of RPN.

    There's actually a fairly good introduction to the language here:
    <http://developer.apple.com/doentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ObjectiveC/>

     

    It's probably worth going through the tutorial at:
    <http://developer.apple.com/doentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ObjCTutorial/>
    It's a bit contrived, but it does show you a rough, simple example.

    The other doents at
    <http://developer.apple.com/referencelibrary/API_Fundamentals/Cocoa-fund-
    date.html> are also probably worth skimming.

    G

    --
    Standard output is like your butt. Everyone has one. When using a bathroom,
    they all default to going into a toilet. However, a person can redirect his
    "standard output" to somewhere else, if he so chooses. - Jeremy Nixon
    Gregory Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    Gregory Weston <com> wrote in message news:<comcast.net>... 
    >
    > OS X includes some frameworks to support the development of MIDI client
    > applications, but it's been a decade since I looked at writing MIDI
    > software (and I never got around to starting to actually code it then)
    > so I couldn't really tell you whether it's complete and what range of
    > apps it's useful for.

    >
    > Cocoa is an integral part of OS X, but I think you're asking about the
    > development tools. When you buy a new machine there should be an
    > installer in /Applications/Installers. If you buy the OS in a
    > shrinkwrapped box, you'll get installation media for the dev tools. You
    > can also sign up for a free membership to Apple's developer program and
    > download the latest public build of the toolchain. Most people, I think,
    > would say that you should do that.[/ref]

    Ok, thanks for your reply. Do you think an iBook G3 366MHz with 380M,
    RAM 10G disk is possible to use for development purposes? It's a quite
    simple application without any advanced graphics etc.

    /Mats
    Mats Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    In article <google.com>,
    se (Mats) wrote:
     
    > >
    > > OS X includes some frameworks to support the development of MIDI client
    > > applications, but it's been a decade since I looked at writing MIDI
    > > software (and I never got around to starting to actually code it then)
    > > so I couldn't really tell you whether it's complete and what range of
    > > apps it's useful for.
    > > 
    > >
    > > Cocoa is an integral part of OS X, but I think you're asking about the
    > > development tools. When you buy a new machine there should be an
    > > installer in /Applications/Installers. If you buy the OS in a
    > > shrinkwrapped box, you'll get installation media for the dev tools. You
    > > can also sign up for a free membership to Apple's developer program and
    > > download the latest public build of the toolchain. Most people, I think,
    > > would say that you should do that.[/ref]
    >
    > Ok, thanks for your reply. Do you think an iBook G3 366MHz with 380M,
    > RAM 10G disk is possible to use for development purposes? It's a quite
    > simple application without any advanced graphics etc.[/ref]

    My first steps with development under OS X were on a weaker machine, but
    I haven't tried XCode on anything slower than a G3 600 (albeit with less
    RAM than you've got). It was tolerable. If you're only doing the one
    thing it'll probably be okay, but beware the opportunity cost of keeping
    that as a primary machine if you intend to do more development.

    G

    --
    Standard output is like your butt. Everyone has one. When using a bathroom,
    they all default to going into a toilet. However, a person can redirect his
    "standard output" to somewhere else, if he so chooses. - Jeremy Nixon
    Gregory Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    In article <2004071719542411272%inspectordreyfushotmailcom >,
    Blair Macdonald <com> wrote: 
    >
    > I suppose I don't know what makes me say that. I know that REALBasic is
    > an OOP language, and I also am farmiliar with a bit of Java,
    > javascript, and PHP which, I was told, were all OOP languages. I may be
    > wrong.[/ref]

    Objective-C and Java are very similar to one-another in terms of their
    OOP capabilities, and differ mostly in their syntax and how they execute.

    Did you know that you can build Cocoa applications with Java?? There's
    a tutorial on this subject at
    <http://developer.apple.com/doentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/JavaTutorial/>
    ..

    If you're more comfortable with the Java syntax than the Objective-C
    syntax, this might be a good way to go (I know I find the Objective-C
    hard to get used to). There are also way more books on Java than
    Objective-C. In addition, Java message passing is significantly faster
    than Objective-C -- I've run sme benchmarks which confirm this.


    -- Bert Sierra
    Bert Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Cocoa Newbie

    On 2004-07-19 11:46:45 -0300, Bert Sierra <net> said:
     
    >>
    >> I suppose I don't know what makes me say that. I know that REALBasic is
    >> an OOP language, and I also am farmiliar with a bit of Java,
    >> javascript, and PHP which, I was told, were all OOP languages. I may be
    >> wrong.[/ref]
    >
    > Objective-C and Java are very similar to one-another in terms of their
    > OOP capabilities, and differ mostly in their syntax and how they
    > execute.
    >
    > Did you know that you can build Cocoa applications with Java?? There's
    > a tutorial on this subject at
    > <http://developer.apple.com/doentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/JavaTutorial/>[/ref]
    BM Guest

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