Comparing Illustrator, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro?

[Fred]

Greetings!

I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of
Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes.
However, since I'm the least stupid computer graphics person around here I'm
becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more
capabilities.

People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys
are just passing the ads on and don't know how to change things like area
codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need a
program that let's me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems
with fonts, etc.

I hear lots of names floating around -- Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark are
names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don't know any of them from
Shinola.

Also, I'm stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a
Microsoft graphics program).

Also, as I'm not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might
turn out to be a bad choice, I'd be most interested in what you think is the
oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I
plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out
OK, I'll consider upgrading at that time.

Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on
the back!!

B:^)

Fred

[Xalinai]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:10:29 GMT, "Fred"
<testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:

>Greetings!
>
>I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of
>Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes.
>However, since I'm the least stupid computer graphics person around here I'm
>becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more
>capabilities.
>
>People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys
>are just passing the ads on and don't know how to change things like area
>codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need a
>program that let's me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems
>with fonts, etc.
>
>I hear lots of names floating around -- Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark are
>names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don't know any of them from
>Shinola.
>
>Also, I'm stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a
>Microsoft graphics program).
>
>Also, as I'm not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might
>turn out to be a bad choice, I'd be most interested in what you think is the
>oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I
>plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out
>OK, I'll consider upgrading at that time.

What you need is a mostly vector oriented program that understands
PDF, keeps the vector information as vector information and can save
PDF files.

You will find part of those abilities in Illustrator but Adobe will
try to sell Acrobat too.

You can try and get the Corel Graphics Suite - Versions 11 and 12 are
quite good with PDF import and conversion into editable elements and
their PDF export isn't too bad.

Version 11 is available for about 100 Euros here.

PSP is not recommended for this kind of task as it has no PDF export
and has a tendency to convert things into raster data.

Michael

[bagal]

There you are Fred - it's not the $500 solution you originally thought of
but a $5,000 solution!

If OEM is your route wouldn't it be worthwhile with Windows XP 64 bit OEM'ed
with a reasonable real-world solution?

das B

ps - i prefer not to pat myself on the back but your message is good, very
good...

dB

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:9LNDc.13009$x9.5329@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

> Greetings!
>
> I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of
> Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes.
> However, since I'm the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I'm

> becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more
> capabilities.
>
> People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys
> are just passing the ads on and don't know how to change things like area
> codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need

a

> program that let's me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems
> with fonts, etc.
>
> I hear lots of names floating around -- Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

> names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don't know any of them from
> Shinola.
>
> Also, I'm stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a
> Microsoft graphics program).
>
> Also, as I'm not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might
> turn out to be a bad choice, I'd be most interested in what you think is

the

> oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I
> plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out
> OK, I'll consider upgrading at that time.
>
> Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on
> the back!!
>
> B:^)
>
> Fred
>
>
>

[Fred]

Thanks very much! More of our advertisers seem to be using Illustrator, so
I'll look into getting that. What is the oldest version of Illustrator that
you still see around?

"Xalinai" <xalinai_Two@xalinai.de> wrote in message
news:40e0057a.1310846265@news.t-online.de...

> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:10:29 GMT, "Fred"
> <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:
>

> >Greetings!
> >
> >I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of
> >Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes.
> >However, since I'm the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I'm

> >becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more
> >capabilities.
> >
> >People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these

guys

> >are just passing the ads on and don't know how to change things like area
> >codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need

a

> >program that let's me open PDF files and make changes and correct

problems

> >with fonts, etc.
> >
> >I hear lots of names floating around -- Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

> >names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don't know any of them from
> >Shinola.
> >
> >Also, I'm stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a
> >Microsoft graphics program).
> >
> >Also, as I'm not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that

might

> >turn out to be a bad choice, I'd be most interested in what you think is

the

> >oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I
> >plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out
> >OK, I'll consider upgrading at that time.

>
> What you need is a mostly vector oriented program that understands
> PDF, keeps the vector information as vector information and can save
> PDF files.
>
> You will find part of those abilities in Illustrator but Adobe will
> try to sell Acrobat too.
>
> You can try and get the Corel Graphics Suite - Versions 11 and 12 are
> quite good with PDF import and conversion into editable elements and
> their PDF export isn't too bad.
>
> Version 11 is available for about 100 Euros here.
>
> PSP is not recommended for this kind of task as it has no PDF export
> and has a tendency to convert things into raster data.
>
> Michael

[Fred]

"bagal" <spoofed@spooked.com> wrote in message
news:jEYDc.98$tA1.3@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net...

> There you are Fred - it's not the $500 solution you originally thought of
> but a $5,000 solution!
>
> If OEM is your route wouldn't it be worthwhile with Windows XP 64 bit

OEM'ed

> with a reasonable real-world solution?

Might be, but I'm trying to steer clear of XP and all other Microsoft stuff
where graphics are concerned. I'm not a MS-hater -- just that 100% of
everyone in the graphics industry I deal with use Adobe, Mac's, etc., and I
want to avoid compatibility issues down the road. Probably will end up
getting a Mac later on this year.

[Fred]

By the way.... how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from each other.
Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?

[Xalinai]

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:07:16 GMT, "Fred"
<testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:

>Thanks very much! More of our advertisers seem to be using Illustrator, so
>I'll look into getting that. What is the oldest version of Illustrator that
>you still see around?

You do not have that effect of dramatically falling prices for older
versions with Adobe products. They seem to have a policy to re-stock
their dealers with the new versions, taking back all the older ones.

I know almost no person who works with the current Corel product -
everybody seems to be at least one number behind. Adobe users on the
other hand seem wait for the second or third upgrade offer (not the
pre-registration or the first regular offer but the following one) as
this is usually the cheapest version you can get in time.

Michael

>
>"Xalinai" <xalinai_Two@xalinai.de> wrote in message
>news:40e0057a.1310846265@news.t-online.de...

>> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:10:29 GMT, "Fred"
>> <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:
>>

>> >Greetings!
>> >
>> >I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of
>> >Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes.
>> >However, since I'm the least stupid computer graphics person around here

>I'm

>> >becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more
>> >capabilities.
>> >
>> >People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these

>guys

>> >are just passing the ads on and don't know how to change things like area
>> >codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need

>a

>> >program that let's me open PDF files and make changes and correct

>problems

>> >with fonts, etc.
>> >
>> >I hear lots of names floating around -- Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

>are

>> >names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don't know any of them from
>> >Shinola.
>> >
>> >Also, I'm stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a
>> >Microsoft graphics program).
>> >
>> >Also, as I'm not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that

>might

>> >turn out to be a bad choice, I'd be most interested in what you think is

>the

>> >oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I
>> >plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out
>> >OK, I'll consider upgrading at that time.

>>
>> What you need is a mostly vector oriented program that understands
>> PDF, keeps the vector information as vector information and can save
>> PDF files.
>>
>> You will find part of those abilities in Illustrator but Adobe will
>> try to sell Acrobat too.
>>
>> You can try and get the Corel Graphics Suite - Versions 11 and 12 are
>> quite good with PDF import and conversion into editable elements and
>> their PDF export isn't too bad.
>>
>> Version 11 is available for about 100 Euros here.
>>
>> PSP is not recommended for this kind of task as it has no PDF export
>> and has a tendency to convert things into raster data.
>>
>> Michael

>
>

[Xalinai]

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:18:05 GMT, "Fred"
<testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:

>By the way.... how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from each other.
>Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?

Photoshop is a raster image editor while Illustrator is a vector image
editor.

Adobe keeps their ability to work in each others field limited enough
that you need both if you work in both areas.

Michael

[chuck]

Fred, there are any number of freeware/shareware LDF editors available
on the net. A basic search of google brings up dozens.

Additionally, there is a pretty noisy thread among active OpenOffice
developers over incorporating PDF editing capabilities in addition to
the present PDF creation/conversion stuff.


"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message news:<9LNDc.13009$x9.5329@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...

> Greetings!
>
> I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of
> Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes.
> However, since I'm the least stupid computer graphics person around here I'm
> becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more
> capabilities.
>
> People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys
> are just passing the ads on and don't know how to change things like area
> codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need a
> program that let's me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems
> with fonts, etc.
>
> I hear lots of names floating around -- Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark are
> names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don't know any of them from
> Shinola.
>
> Also, I'm stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a
> Microsoft graphics program).
>
> Also, as I'm not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might
> turn out to be a bad choice, I'd be most interested in what you think is the
> oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I
> plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out
> OK, I'll consider upgrading at that time.
>
> Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on
> the back!!
>
> B:^)
>
> Fred

[Jim Thompson]

On 6 Jul 2004 08:00:13 -0700, [email]newsposter@mn.rr.com[/email] (chuck) wrote:

>Fred, there are any number of freeware/shareware LDF editors available
>on the net. A basic search of google brings up dozens.
>
>Additionally, there is a pretty noisy thread among active OpenOffice
>developers over incorporating PDF editing capabilities in addition to
>the present PDF creation/conversion stuff.
>
>

[snip]

Hi Chuck, Where can I find out more about PDF editing? Right now I
resort to printing to a PS file, edit there, then distill.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| [url]http://www.analog-innovations.com[/url] | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

[chuck]

Google is full of references and shareware/freeware for PDF editing.

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message news:<jvfle01m6o8ki2kaiket42puvkrgf7erh1@4ax.com>. ..

> On 6 Jul 2004 08:00:13 -0700, [email]newsposter@mn.rr.com[/email] (chuck) wrote:
>

> >Fred, there are any number of freeware/shareware LDF editors available
> >on the net. A basic search of google brings up dozens.
> >
> >Additionally, there is a pretty noisy thread among active OpenOffice
> >developers over incorporating PDF editing capabilities in addition to
> >the present PDF creation/conversion stuff.
> >
> >

> [snip]
>
> Hi Chuck, Where can I find out more about PDF editing? Right now I
> resort to printing to a PS file, edit there, then distill.
>
> ...Jim Thompson
> --
> | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
> | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
> | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
> | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
> | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
> | [url]http://www.analog-innovations.com[/url] | 1962 |
>
> I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

[Fred]

Michael --
Another stupid question -- can you give me an example of what is a raster
image and what is a vector image?
Fred

"Xalinai" <xalinai_Two@xalinai.de> wrote in message
news:40e7c8f4.156634468@news.t-online.de...

> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:18:05 GMT, "Fred"
> <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:
>

> >By the way.... how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from each

other.

> >Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?

>
> Photoshop is a raster image editor while Illustrator is a vector image
> editor.

[Nik Coughin]

Fred wrote:

> Michael --
> Another stupid question -- can you give me an example of what is a
> raster image and what is a vector image?
> Fred

Well, I'm not Michael, but...

Raster image:
[url]http://scv.bu.edu/Tutorials/ImageFiles/image101.html[/url]

Vector image (near the bottom):
[url]http://docs.kde.org/en/HEAD/koffice/kword/glossary.html[/url]

An oversimplification would be
raster=bitmap, vector=clipart.

[Xalinai]

Fred wrote:

> Michael --
> Another stupid question -- can you give me an example of what is a
> raster image and what is a vector image?
> Fred

A raster image is a rectangular arrangement of pixels of the same color
depth. There is no relation between the colors of neighbouring pixels,
each color value is the result of a sample (scanner, camera) or of
artistic activity by the user (painting, adding text, applying
effects). Stored image information consists of pixel data only.

A vector image is a list of commands to the appropriate program. The
commands include the definition of the drawing area, the position of
objects, specify which method to use to draw it (shape, colors, fill
styles, etc).

When you play tic-tac-toe, the filled board can be seen as a 3x3 pixel
raster image with three colors: x, o and empty. Positions are specified,

When your math teacher told you to draw a triangle with the points (3,
5), (5, 8), and (-2, 12) using a number 2 pencil and shade the part in
the negative in yellow, he specified a vector graphic for you as the
drawing engine.

Michael

>
> "Xalinai" <xalinai_Two@xalinai.de> wrote in message
> news:40e7c8f4.156634468@news.t-online.de...

> > On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:18:05 GMT, "Fred"
> > <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:
> >

> > > By the way.... how are Illustrator and Photoshop different from
> > > each

> other.

> > > Are they competing products or, if not, how is each one best used?

> >
> > Photoshop is a raster image editor while Illustrator is a vector
> > image editor.

[Fred]

Thanks for the links, Nik! Especially like that glossary!
Fred


"Nik Coughin" <nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz> wrote in message
news:5IMGc.8104$LT3.310321@news.xtra.co.nz...

> Fred wrote:

> > Michael --
> > Another stupid question -- can you give me an example of what is a
> > raster image and what is a vector image?
> > Fred

>
> Well, I'm not Michael, but...
>
> Raster image:
> [url]http://scv.bu.edu/Tutorials/ImageFiles/image101.html[/url]
>
> Vector image (near the bottom):
> [url]http://docs.kde.org/en/HEAD/koffice/kword/glossary.html[/url]
>
> An oversimplification would be
> raster=bitmap, vector=clipart.
>
>

[Fred]

Any more comments about this? Sure is great to hear all the opinions.

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:9LNDc.13009$x9.5329@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

> Greetings!
>
> I use Pagemaker 7.1 and have been using a real old shareware version of
> Paint Shop Pro program for years. It works just fine for my purposes.
> However, since I'm the least stupid computer graphics person around here

I'm

> becoming the newsletter "expert" and need to get something with more
> capabilities.
>
> People are sending me mostly PDF files as display ads. Most of these guys
> are just passing the ads on and don't know how to change things like area
> codes, at a new line here or there, etc. So, as the "expert" now, I need

a

> program that let's me open PDF files and make changes and correct problems
> with fonts, etc.
>
> I hear lots of names floating around -- Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark

are

> names that come up a lot. Unfortunately, I don't know any of them from
> Shinola.
>
> Also, I'm stuck with Windows 98SE and not a Mac (but I will NOT use a
> Microsoft graphics program).
>
> Also, as I'm not interested in plopping down $500 for a product that might
> turn out to be a bad choice, I'd be most interested in what you think is

the

> oldest version of a good program that is still pretty commonly in use. I
> plan to hit one of the ebay sites first. Then if the one I get works out
> OK, I'll consider upgrading at that time.
>
> Thanks very much. If you read this far, give yourself an extra big pat on
> the back!!
>
> B:^)
>
> Fred
>
>
>