Crop with fixed target size

[John-Norway webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

I am new to Fireworks and have not been able to see a way to crop an image with a fixed target size - as in Photoshop.
I use this all the time and can't believe it doesn't exist in Fireworks.
Can someone guide me in the right direction?
cheers, John

[Steve Johnson]

That is useful Peter.

Do you have any tricks to make the following process easier:

1. Photo at, say 1600 X 1200
2. Then crop it a little but keep to the 4 to 3 ratio
3. Then resize to exactly 800 X 600

I know there were bugs in FW MX that complicated things, but I found this
whole process very clumsy and error prone - often/usually ending up with
something like a 800 X 596 picture with the canvas showing along one edge.
The picture has to be manually re positioned (and I think the "correct
internal positioning" Extension was necessary) and then the canvas trimmed.

I am not sure if FW MX 2004 is any better on the bug aspects.

But anyway, can you suggest a good way to do this?

One thing I thought would help a lot was if the crop tool could be set to a
fixed ratio but I dont think that is possible.
Thanks

Steve


"Peter R" <flash@SLICEreclusivebillionaire.com> wrote in message
news:bk9e9f$fr7$1@forums.macromedia.com...

>
> "John-Norway" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
> news:bk97ij$4kh$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> : I am new to Fireworks and have not been able to see a way to crop an

image

> with a fixed target size - as in Photoshop.
> : I use this all the time and can't believe it doesn't exist in Fireworks.
> : Can someone guide me in the right direction?
> : cheers, John
> :
>
> If I understand you correctly John,
>
> This the way I do it.
>
> Create a new canvas the size that you want your images to be cropped to.
> Open your image on the same page and simply drag it onto your new canvas.
> Then manoeuvre it around until your happy. Then go to Modify >> Canvas >>
> Trim Canvas or Ctrl+Alt+T on a PC.
>
> Peter R.
>
>

[spirit webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

Let's be very clear about this:

Fireworks CANNOT do a fixed size crop in the same manner as Photoshop.

Now every time I say this someone goes: Oh, just do a fixed crop, or a fixed ratio etc, but that is NOT the same and anyone who has used this functionality in Photoshop will understand immediately. A search on "fixed size crop" will reveal lengthy conversations about this area and in every case a final admission that Fireworks CANNOT do it.

Phew ! That feels better.

At present there is only one way to do it and that's by using a command written by John Dunning (but which doesn't appear on his page). You can customise the command to whatever size you want, but each command will have that fixed size.

I hope that MX2004 has improved this, but from what I understand it doesn't look like it. (Must upgrade one of these weeks soon...)

A shame - a real weakness.

[Peter R]

"Steve Johnson" wrote in message ...
: That is useful Peter.
:
: Do you have any tricks to make the following process easier:
:
: 1. Photo at, say 1600 X 1200
: 2. Then crop it a little but keep to the 4 to 3 ratio
: 3. Then resize to exactly 800 X 600
:
: I know there were bugs in FW MX that complicated things, but I found this
: whole process very clumsy and error prone - often/usually ending up with
: something like a 800 X 596 picture with the canvas showing along one edge.
: The picture has to be manually re positioned (and I think the "correct
: internal positioning" Extension was necessary) and then the canvas
trimmed.
:
: I am not sure if FW MX 2004 is any better on the bug aspects.
:
: But anyway, can you suggest a good way to do this?
:
: One thing I thought would help a lot was if the crop tool could be set to
a
: fixed ratio but I dont think that is possible.
: Thanks
:
Hi Steve,

I actually start of with my images in a programme called thumbs plus. I do
any batch work in there... renaming, changing file type and any proportional
resizing.

Then (and I just tried this) I would do what I outlined below. Set up a
canvas at 800 x 600 and drag the image onto it. then ctrl+alt+T.

It worked fine for me. I'm still on FWMX, I'm waiting untill the dust
settles.

Peter R.


:
:
: "Peter R" <flash@SLICEreclusivebillionaire.com> wrote in message
: news:bk9e9f$fr7$1@forums.macromedia.com...
: >
: > "John-Norway" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
: > news:bk97ij$4kh$1@forums.macromedia.com...
: > : I am new to Fireworks and have not been able to see a way to crop an
: image
: > with a fixed target size - as in Photoshop.
: > : I use this all the time and can't believe it doesn't exist in
Fireworks.
: > : Can someone guide me in the right direction?
: > : cheers, John
: > :
: >
: > If I understand you correctly John,
: >
: > This the way I do it.
: >
: > Create a new canvas the size that you want your images to be cropped to.
: > Open your image on the same page and simply drag it onto your new
canvas.
: > Then manoeuvre it around until your happy. Then go to Modify >> Canvas

>>

: > Trim Canvas or Ctrl+Alt+T on a PC.
: >
: > Peter R.
: >
: >
:
:
:

[Linda Rathgeber]

Steve Johnson wrote:

> That is useful Peter.
>
> Do you have any tricks to make the following process easier:
>
> 1. Photo at, say 1600 X 1200
> 2. Then crop it a little but keep to the 4 to 3 ratio
> 3. Then resize to exactly 800 X 600

Use Modify > Transform > Numeric Transform. Choose the Resize function
and type in 800 for the width, 600 for height, leaving Scale attributes
and Constrain proportions checked.

> One thing I thought would help a lot was if the crop tool could be set to a
> fixed ratio but I dont think that is possible.

There are many alternative ways to crop an image to a fixed proportion
in Fireworks, so the ability to do it specifically with the Crop tool is
unnecessary.

If you want to resize the image and the canvas at the same time, choose
Modify > Canvas > Image size. Type in the new dimensions for your image
and press OK. If you want to resize the canvas without changing the
image size, then just change the canvas size in the Property inspector.

To crop the image to 800 x 600(if you don't want to do it by changing
the canvas size), drag out an 800 x 600 rectangle and center it over
your image. Cut the image to the Clipboard (Edit > Cut), and then select
the rectangle and choose Edit > Paste Inside. Yet another method would
be to Shift + select both the image and the rectangle, and then choose
Modify > Mask > Group as Mask.


Best regards,
Linda Rathgeber
----------------
Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
-----------------

[Linda Rathgeber]

"spirit" [email]webforumsuser@macromedia.com[/email] wrote:

> Let's be very clear about this:
>
> Fireworks CANNOT do a fixed size crop in the same manner as
> Photoshop.

You mean enter an exact height and width for the crop? Yes you can do it
in Fireworks. Open the Info panel and make sure you can see the height
and width boxes at the bottom. Drag out a bounding box with the Crop
tool. You'll see the width and height of the bounding box in the Info
panel. Change the numbers to whatever you wish, and then press Enter.
The crop bounding box will resize itself to match the dimensions you
entered into the Info panel. All that's left to do os double click
inside the bounding box to make the crop.


Best regards,
Linda Rathgeber
----------------
Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
-----------------

[John-Norway webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

Thanks Peter,

I tried it, and it works, but it is slow and complicated.

I am creating a lot of images of fixed sizes e.g. 180x130, from much larger images (2048x1536). The photoshop crop tool allows me to crop any part of the image (to those proportions) and resizes in one operation - and I can straighten any "slope" on the image at the same time.

Sorry if I sound like an Adobe advert - we're hoping to only buy Fireworks from now on.

John

[John-Norway webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

Thanks Spirit,

I can stop looking, now - but can you tell me where I can find the John Dunning command you mentioned?

John

[spirit webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

Hi John,

JD's command works perfectly. The only way to get it is probably to go to his site and email him. He was very kind in writing one specifically to solve this problem - maybe you could suggest he put it on his page...

[url]http://johndunning.com/fireworks/[/url]

[Linda Rathgeber]

Steve, just mask it to the size you want then trim the canvas.


Best regards,
Linda Rathgeber
----------------
Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
-----------------

[Steve Johnson]

Perhaps to help a bit more with clarification,

One way I do what I want at the moment is to use the crop tool and type in,
1600 by 1200. I then shift drag the corners of the Crop bounding box,
thereby hoping to exactly maintain the proportion. I often end up with the
slight change in proportion and therefor the blank edges where there is no
image, but there is a canvas, shows through in the finished product. Yes I
fit/canvas but it is still not reliable.

I am not sure how much of this was due to the FW positioning bug.

Steve


"Steve Johnson" <spjohnson@guesswhattoremovelineone.net> wrote in message
news:bk9okd$57v$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Thanks everyone for trying to help.
>
> Linda, maybe I am misusing the word "Crop" because I don't see that what

you

> are saying does what I want at all.
>
> Lets leave aside any notion of reducing the WHOLE image proportionally

down

> to a smaller size with the same ratio of height and width, because that is
> trivial once I understand how to do this...
>
> I have an image of 1600 X 1200. I want to "Crop" off 2 (top and left or
> top and right or bottom and left or bottom and right) or all 4 edges so

that

> I don't see those edges in the exported image.
>
> But I also want to exactly maintain the 4:3 ratio.
>
> I don't see how what you are saying does that.
>
> Does your process handle that?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Steve
>
> ps I am not comparing to any other product. I'd just like to find a good

way

> of doing this in FW...
>
>
>
> Let me try and explain again.
> "Linda Rathgeber" <lightly@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:bk9n8k$2eu$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> >
> >
> > Steve Johnson wrote:
> >

> > > That is useful Peter.
> > >
> > > Do you have any tricks to make the following process easier:
> > >
> > > 1. Photo at, say 1600 X 1200
> > > 2. Then crop it a little but keep to the 4 to 3 ratio
> > > 3. Then resize to exactly 800 X 600

> >
> > Use Modify > Transform > Numeric Transform. Choose the Resize function
> > and type in 800 for the width, 600 for height, leaving Scale attributes
> > and Constrain proportions checked.
> >

> > > One thing I thought would help a lot was if the crop tool could be set

> to a

> > > fixed ratio but I dont think that is possible.

> >
> > There are many alternative ways to crop an image to a fixed proportion
> > in Fireworks, so the ability to do it specifically with the Crop tool is
> > unnecessary.
> >
> > If you want to resize the image and the canvas at the same time, choose
> > Modify > Canvas > Image size. Type in the new dimensions for your image
> > and press OK. If you want to resize the canvas without changing the
> > image size, then just change the canvas size in the Property inspector.
> >
> > To crop the image to 800 x 600(if you don't want to do it by changing
> > the canvas size), drag out an 800 x 600 rectangle and center it over
> > your image. Cut the image to the Clipboard (Edit > Cut), and then select
> > the rectangle and choose Edit > Paste Inside. Yet another method would
> > be to Shift + select both the image and the rectangle, and then choose
> > Modify > Mask > Group as Mask.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Linda Rathgeber
> > ----------------
> > Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
> > Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
> > Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
> > Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
> > Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
> > -----------------
> >

>
>

[Steve Johnson]

I think I am familiar enough with masks that I think I understand what you
say here...

I know I can size a mask to (1600-4*x) X (1200-3*x)

But I dont want to be concerned with what x is and do the calculation
myself...I want to re compose the cropped image visually

Steve




"Linda Rathgeber" <lightly@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:bk9ph7$6nq$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Steve, just mask it to the size you want then trim the canvas.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Linda Rathgeber
> ----------------
> Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
> Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
> Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
> Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
> Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
> -----------------
>

[Steve Johnson]

Hi Lanny.

This thread is getting a bit complex :)

I think it addresses a real issue which should not be difficult
(technically, business priorities are something else) for MM to sort out.

My answer to your suggestion is that introducing another product (Photoshop)
into the workflow of pretty simple photo processing (I really dont need
anything sophisticated) complicates things too much.

I really want to maintain FW PNG Live Effects and just crop and resize. It
shouldn't be difficult (and may indeed be possible, I just haven't found and
sensible reliable way yet)
Steve



"Lanny Chambers" <lanny@hummingbirds.net> wrote in message
news:lanny-F2E6BC.09083617092003@forums.macromedia.com...

> In article <bk9o31$44c$1@forums.macromedia.com>,
> "John-Norway" [email]webforumsuser@macromedia.com[/email] wrote:
>

> > I am creating a lot of images of fixed sizes e.g. 180x130, from much

larger

> > images (2048x1536). The photoshop crop tool allows me to crop any part

of

> > the image (to those proportions) and resizes in one operation - and I

can

> > straighten any "slope" on the image at the same time.
> >
> > Sorry if I sound like an Adobe advert - we're hoping to only buy

Fireworks

> > from now on.

>
> Here's a radical idea: since your present version of Photoshop does this
> nicely, why not keep it for such tasks? It won't turn into a pumpkin if
> you stop upgrading (I use Photoshop 3.0 as a handy adjunct to Fireworks).
>
> --
> Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
> [url]http://www.hummingbirds.net/[/url]

[Steve Johnson]

John

I am not sure...

Looking at the thread so far, are we looking for the same thing? I think
so...

If the John Dunning Command works, please could you let me know

Thanks

Steve
"John-Norway" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:bk97ij$4kh$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> I am new to Fireworks and have not been able to see a way to crop an image

with a fixed target size - as in Photoshop.

> I use this all the time and can't believe it doesn't exist in Fireworks.
> Can someone guide me in the right direction?
> cheers, John
>
>

[Linda Rathgeber]

Steve Johnson wrote:

> I think I am familiar enough with masks that I think I understand what you
> say here...
>
> I know I can size a mask to (1600-4*x) X (1200-3*x)
>
> But I dont want to be concerned with what x is and do the calculation
> myself...I want to re compose the cropped image visually

Then drag out a rectangle. Remove the fill so you can see where you are
putting it over the image, but add a black stroke so you can see the
rectangle outline. Once you've placed the rectangle where you want,
select both the image and the rectangle and choose Modify > Mask > Group
as Mask. Click on the thumbnail for the rectangle in the Layers panel.
It will look like a black square. Once you've selected it, click in the
Path Outline radio button in the Property inspector.


Best regards,
Linda Rathgeber
----------------
Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
-----------------

[Linda Rathgeber]

I forgot to mention that you can adjust the size of the masked image by
clicking on the rectangle thumbnail and pulling on the yellow corner
markers. You can adjust the placement of the image within the mask by
clicking on the image thumbnail and using the blue cross shape in the
middle of the mask group as a handle.



Best regards,
Linda Rathgeber
----------------
Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
-----------------

[John-Norway webforumsuser@macromedia.com]

Steve,

I'll let you know when John Dunning replies, and if it does the trick.

John

[Steve Johnson]

Hmmm.

Thanks for persisting Linda

I think I see what you mean but won't be able to test right now.

Thanks for now, I'll post back when I have played around a bit more

Steve


"Linda Rathgeber" <lightly@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:bk9uhs$hob$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> I forgot to mention that you can adjust the size of the masked image by
> clicking on the rectangle thumbnail and pulling on the yellow corner
> markers. You can adjust the placement of the image within the mask by
> clicking on the image thumbnail and using the blue cross shape in the
> middle of the mask group as a handle.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Linda Rathgeber
> ----------------
> Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
> Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
> Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
> Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
> Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
> -----------------
>

[Steve Johnson]

I am afraid I still don't get this.

I am finding that working with a rectangle, that will become the vector
mask, and/or Transform, suffers from the same issue as working with the Crop
tool.

The only accurate way is to do the mathematics yourself to maintain a fixed
ratio, and it is very cumbersome when you have dozens of photographs to do.

To take an extreme example,

If you shift drag a corner of a 1600 X 1200 so that the width becomes 5998,
what is FW going to do? It can't give you a height of 1198.8 (or can it
somehow?).

The above is obviously not typical of how one would work, rather you'd
rescale multiple times, move the "crop" area, adjust etc. But the "errors"
just creep in throwing out the ratio by a few pixels, potentially leaving
areas that show through on the final display.

So there would need to be some logic that "knows" about common ratios (4:3,
5:4 etc) and perhaps "snaps" to allowable rescale points.

I tried playing with grid size and snap to grid and the snap distance (in
preferences) but rescaling with shift drag on the corner doesn't take any
notice.

Sigh...

Steve



"Linda Rathgeber" <lightly@sc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:bk9uhs$hob$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> I forgot to mention that you can adjust the size of the masked image by
> clicking on the rectangle thumbnail and pulling on the yellow corner
> markers. You can adjust the placement of the image within the mask by
> clicking on the image thumbnail and using the blue cross shape in the
> middle of the mask group as a handle.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Linda Rathgeber
> ----------------
> Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
> Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
> Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
> Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
> Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
> -----------------
>

[Linda Rathgeber]

Steve Johnson wrote:

> If you shift drag a corner of a 1600 X 1200 so that the width becomes 5998,
> what is FW going to do? It can't give you a height of 1198.8 (or can it
> somehow?).

It's going to jump right up out of your machine and start gibbering in a
dark corner, "Doh! I was created for creating and editing Web images. I
don't *do* images as large as 6000. What the XXXX kind of Web page would
you use an image that large on? Huh? Huh?"

> So there would need to be some logic that "knows" about common ratios (4:3,
> 5:4 etc) and perhaps "snaps" to allowable rescale points.

Something like Numeric Transform?


Best regards,
Linda Rathgeber
----------------
Victoriana | [url]http://www.projectseven.com/dpacks/vic/index.htm[/url]
Theme Pack 03 - Club | [url]www.projectseven.com[/url] |mm2| themes
Contributor *PVII Foundations* [url]www.projectseven.com[/url]
Co-author *Playing with Fire* [url]www.playingwithfire.com[/url]
Team MM Fireworks Volunteer | [url]www.macromedia.com/go/team[/url]
-----------------