Cross-references in ID CS?

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

I'm really confused.

I'm working on a document that has lots of "see page x" cross-references. I need to insert cross-references that automatically update when page-numbers change between versions. This has never been a big deal in other apps. (Even Word does them.)

Adobe's ID CS info page <http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/overview2.html)> says:

Long-document support





Group related documents into a book list to easily number pages sequentially.
Add hyperlinks and bookmarks, and generate tables of contents, cross-references,
and indexes.




However, I can find nothing in ID CS's user guide or HTML help about cross-references.

Several reviews specifically say that ID CS does not do cross-references---for example (from <http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/20609.html)>:

Is InDesign CS perfect? Not quite. There are still many more book- and
long-document features that are missing. These include cross-references,
numbered lists, and figure numbers.




I see that a third-party InDesign "cross-reference generator" plug-in is available (at <http://www.virginiasystems.com/productsbyapp.html)> for "only" $200.

Finally, I've found a thread on this forum (from last year, and unjoinable) about using scripting to accomplish cross-references. But Jim, I'm an editor, not a programmer.

So what's the deal? Does this basic feature exist in ID CS, but it's, like, tucked away where no one can find it?

[Bob_Levine]

Search for cross reference in the ID help. I've never needed it, but
according to the help you can accomplish it with the use of the index
palette. I'm going to guess that it's more of kludge than anything else
but worth exploring.

Bob

[Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com]

There is no cross-reference feature in InDesign. The Index feature isn't designed to do what you're expecting.

Again, you come from a FrameMaker background where that kind of feature is standard, and that's probably where such a document should be done unless you use the Virginia Systems plug-in.

As we said before, InDesign was not designed for the long document market. Although it's slowly adding those features, don't expect them to appear quickly.

[Dave_Saunders@adobeforums.com]

The cross references being referred to there are the kind that look like:

Andy Fielding, see also: converting FrameMaker Users

in indexes.

I agree that that is a poorly written piece of marketing copy because while that is technically a cross reference, it is not what people think of most of the time when they use the term.

Dave

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

When I think of a "cross-" reference, I think of a reference from one chapter to chapter---you know, "across." Why would anyone refer to an index reference as a "cross-reference"?

Claiming that ID CS has "long-document support" is quite an exaggeration. I wouldn't consider Microsoft Word a "long-document" app (and indeed, using it as one is asking for trouble), but at least it offers real long-document features. Word.

I've tried creating an ID CS book file to paginate chapter files. I've carefully set all of my section markers. I can't get it to work. And can I search this "book" for text? Nope.

Lists? Nope. (Do you know how dopey I feel, pasting in every bullet, typing every number? What is this, DOS?) Footnotes, bibliographic references, cross-references? Sorry, $200 extra. Figure/table numbers? Nope.

It's just a disappointment. If ID CS is for magazines and restaurant menus, they should say that.

[Craig Smith]

[email]Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com[/email] wrote:

>I've tried creating an ID CS book file to paginate chapter files. I've carefully set all of my section markers. I can't get it to work. And can I search this "book" for text? Nope.

What is it about the book file or the section markers that you can't
get to "work"?

And I have no problem searching the book for text. All of your book's
documents must be open at the same time, and you must select "all
documents" in the Search box.

ID isn't perfect. I still mourn the loss of PM's text library feature
(as opposed to ID's object library), and the footnote add-on for ID
isn't of use when the document you're formatting already *has* its
footnotes--it's only for adding new ones--but so very much of what ID
does, it does beautifully.

..:. Craig

[Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com]

Andy,

Your FrameMaker background is showing. The three main apps for desktop publishing have been PageMaker, QuarkXPress and InDesign. They serve a very large market. And that large market, by and large (sorry for the pun), doesn't need cross-referencing. Hence, NONE of those three apps has the cross-referencing feature.

FrameMaker has a very important and much narrower market--those who work on longer, more complex documents. For you folks, cross-referencing is essential. Hence, FrameMaker HAS cross-referencing.

As I've written elsewhere, eventually it will probably come to InDesign. The more people scream for it, write Adobe about it, get people excited about it, the faster this will happen. I just came from the InDesign Conference in Boston where one of the InDesign product managers says that he reads every request for new features posted. But there are literally thousands of requested features. Interestingly, in one session, attendees were throwing out new features they wanted. NO ONE mentioned cross-referencing or other long document features.

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

. . . Interestingly, in one session, attendees were throwing out new features
they wanted. NO ONE mentioned cross-referencing or other long document
features.




They obviously knew a bit more about ID's focus than I did. Well, that's good.

Anyway, sorry about the rant. I was pretty tired last night, and had been struggling for a few hours with ID's limitations.

But the program really is growing on me. The interface is great, and I love being freed from FrameMaker's anachronistic UNIX-type shortcuts, refusal to zoom w/mouse wheel, and so on. Despite the things I've mentioned, I'm enjoying ID CS, and will just work around what isn't available.

And yes, I realize that "everyone wants custom software," and that one app will never please everybody.

Cheers, A.

[Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com]

Thanks, Andy. You have a good attitude, and I appreciate your questions.

While I don't have as much of a need for these features as you have, I sincerely hope they gradually get added to the app.

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

(I suppose at this point I could make a joke about "bullets," but people would take that kind of stuff too seriously here in the 21st century.)

[Philo_Calhoun@adobeforums.com]

Andy, I like InDesign too. It is much nicer than Quark for graphic intensive documents. However, for long documents, InDesign is pretty primitive in features. There are about a dozen features common in long technical documents that are currently lacking in InDesign (but present in unstructured Framemaker). And that is not even counting the additional benefits of structured FM.

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

I suspect that by "long documents," Adobe was referring to things like long tri-fold brochures. :?)