Crystal Reports .NET Is Utterly Shite

[Mark Roberts]

I have enjoyed using .NET, and C# very much and XCOPY deployment is a
dream.

Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond anything that
DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky, badly
designed (push or pull model anyone???).

But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've had
the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be lucky if
it actually works ok.

I've just had IIS crashing on me after trying to display current
parameter values in debug mode, and that's after a day of trying to
get round it's rubbish and convoluted object model.

It's a shame that Microsoft let this cancerous little embolism
anywhere near Visual Studio.

What utter shite.

[Stephajn Craig]

Jeff. Do you know of any good documentation for someone who has never
before laid hands on Crystal Reports?

--
Stephajn Craig
"jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:#HaVtp$ODHA.1336@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> i've found it to be buggy to design reports, but once developed, i've

found

> it to be rock solid. ie, once working, always working.
>
> jeff
>
> "Mark Roberts" <markalroberts@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3ca15ed0.0306260745.15e7e7f0@posting.google.c om...

> > I have enjoyed using .NET, and C# very much and XCOPY deployment is a
> > dream.
> >
> > Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond anything that
> > DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky, badly
> > designed (push or pull model anyone???).
> >
> > But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've had
> > the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be lucky if
> > it actually works ok.
> >
> > I've just had IIS crashing on me after trying to display current
> > parameter values in debug mode, and that's after a day of trying to
> > get round it's rubbish and convoluted object model.
> >
> > It's a shame that Microsoft let this cancerous little embolism
> > anywhere near Visual Studio.
> >
> > What utter shite.

>
>

[jeff]

it's difficult to find. you can get a lot of information from the crystal
reports web site by searching. the info is hard to find, but usually it's
there somewhere. i've searched for things, not found it then went back
later with new search ideas and found it. sometimes i couldn't find it by
searching their site directly, but did find a link to what i needed from
searching in yeahoo (a link to crystal reports). it's odd. if you are
familiar with reports in access, i find them to be very similar, identical
in many cases.

jeff

"Stephajn Craig" <s.craig@NOSPAMfunsunvacations.com> wrote in message
news:%23hsAWCAPDHA.304@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> Jeff. Do you know of any good documentation for someone who has never
> before laid hands on Crystal Reports?
>
> --
> Stephajn Craig
> "jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:#HaVtp$ODHA.1336@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> > i've found it to be buggy to design reports, but once developed, i've

> found

> > it to be rock solid. ie, once working, always working.
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > "Mark Roberts" <markalroberts@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ca15ed0.0306260745.15e7e7f0@posting.google.c om...

> > > I have enjoyed using .NET, and C# very much and XCOPY deployment is a
> > > dream.
> > >
> > > Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond anything that
> > > DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky, badly
> > > designed (push or pull model anyone???).
> > >
> > > But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've had
> > > the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be lucky if
> > > it actually works ok.
> > >
> > > I've just had IIS crashing on me after trying to display current
> > > parameter values in debug mode, and that's after a day of trying to
> > > get round it's rubbish and convoluted object model.
> > >
> > > It's a shame that Microsoft let this cancerous little embolism
> > > anywhere near Visual Studio.
> > >
> > > What utter shite.

> >
> >

>
>

[Stephajn Craig]

So what kind of search keywords would you suggest for a total newbie to use?

--
Stephajn Craig
"jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uAX46XAPDHA.2480@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> it's difficult to find. you can get a lot of information from the crystal
> reports web site by searching. the info is hard to find, but usually it's
> there somewhere. i've searched for things, not found it then went back
> later with new search ideas and found it. sometimes i couldn't find it by
> searching their site directly, but did find a link to what i needed from
> searching in yeahoo (a link to crystal reports). it's odd. if you are
> familiar with reports in access, i find them to be very similar, identical
> in many cases.
>
> jeff
>
> "Stephajn Craig" <s.craig@NOSPAMfunsunvacations.com> wrote in message
> news:%23hsAWCAPDHA.304@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> > Jeff. Do you know of any good documentation for someone who has never
> > before laid hands on Crystal Reports?
> >
> > --
> > Stephajn Craig
> > "jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:#HaVtp$ODHA.1336@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> > > i've found it to be buggy to design reports, but once developed, i've

> > found

> > > it to be rock solid. ie, once working, always working.
> > >
> > > jeff
> > >
> > > "Mark Roberts" <markalroberts@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3ca15ed0.0306260745.15e7e7f0@posting.google.c om...
> > > > I have enjoyed using .NET, and C# very much and XCOPY deployment is

a

> > > > dream.
> > > >
> > > > Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond anything

that

> > > > DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky, badly
> > > > designed (push or pull model anyone???).
> > > >
> > > > But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've had
> > > > the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be lucky if
> > > > it actually works ok.
> > > >
> > > > I've just had IIS crashing on me after trying to display current
> > > > parameter values in debug mode, and that's after a day of trying to
> > > > get round it's rubbish and convoluted object model.
> > > >
> > > > It's a shame that Microsoft let this cancerous little embolism
> > > > anywhere near Visual Studio.
> > > >
> > > > What utter shite.
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>

[Michael D. Kersey]

Mark Roberts wrote:

> Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond anything that
> DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky, badly
> designed (push or pull model anyone???).
>
> But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've had
> the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be lucky if
> it actually works ok.

Why would one use it? All you need to output reports is HTML and text
for the most part.

[jeff]

you can probably just browse for info you're looking for. they have a lot
of samples, which would be good to start. i think .net installs samples
also, but i've never looked at them. it really isn't all that difficult,
it's just picky about how it wants certain things done.

jeff

"Stephajn Craig" <s.craig@NOSPAMfunsunvacations.com> wrote in message
news:uZGsZjAPDHA.3020@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

> So what kind of search keywords would you suggest for a total newbie to

use?

>
> --
> Stephajn Craig
> "jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:uAX46XAPDHA.2480@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> > it's difficult to find. you can get a lot of information from the

crystal

> > reports web site by searching. the info is hard to find, but usually

it's

> > there somewhere. i've searched for things, not found it then went back
> > later with new search ideas and found it. sometimes i couldn't find it

by

> > searching their site directly, but did find a link to what i needed from
> > searching in yeahoo (a link to crystal reports). it's odd. if you are
> > familiar with reports in access, i find them to be very similar,

identical

> > in many cases.
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > "Stephajn Craig" <s.craig@NOSPAMfunsunvacations.com> wrote in message
> > news:%23hsAWCAPDHA.304@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> > > Jeff. Do you know of any good documentation for someone who has never
> > > before laid hands on Crystal Reports?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Stephajn Craig
> > > "jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:#HaVtp$ODHA.1336@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > i've found it to be buggy to design reports, but once developed,

i've

> > > found
> > > > it to be rock solid. ie, once working, always working.
> > > >
> > > > jeff
> > > >
> > > > "Mark Roberts" <markalroberts@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3ca15ed0.0306260745.15e7e7f0@posting.google.c om...
> > > > > I have enjoyed using .NET, and C# very much and XCOPY deployment

is

> a

> > > > > dream.
> > > > >
> > > > > Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond anything

> that

> > > > > DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky, badly
> > > > > designed (push or pull model anyone???).
> > > > >
> > > > > But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've

had

> > > > > the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be lucky

if

> > > > > it actually works ok.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've just had IIS crashing on me after trying to display current
> > > > > parameter values in debug mode, and that's after a day of trying

to

> > > > > get round it's rubbish and convoluted object model.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's a shame that Microsoft let this cancerous little embolism
> > > > > anywhere near Visual Studio.
> > > > >
> > > > > What utter shite.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>

[jeff]

it's a heck of a lot easier... it can export to pdf.... you can use the same
report file for a windows app and an asp.net app.... it supports
charts/graphs... plenty of reasons.

jeff

"Michael D. Kersey" <mdkersey@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
news:3EFB317E.2C863A8@hal-pc.org...

> Mark Roberts wrote:

> > Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond anything that
> > DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky, badly
> > designed (push or pull model anyone???).
> >
> > But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've had
> > the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be lucky if
> > it actually works ok.

>
> Why would one use it? All you need to output reports is HTML and text
> for the most part.

[Kevin Spencer]

It's crufty to the max.

HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
Internet Developer
[url]http://www.takempis.com[/url]
Big things are made up of
lots of Little things.

"jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uNJxUGBPDHA.1720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> it's a heck of a lot easier... it can export to pdf.... you can use the

same

> report file for a windows app and an asp.net app.... it supports
> charts/graphs... plenty of reasons.
>
> jeff
>
> "Michael D. Kersey" <mdkersey@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
> news:3EFB317E.2C863A8@hal-pc.org...

> > Mark Roberts wrote:

> > > Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond anything that
> > > DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky, badly
> > > designed (push or pull model anyone???).
> > >
> > > But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've had
> > > the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be lucky if
> > > it actually works ok.

> >
> > Why would one use it? All you need to output reports is HTML and text
> > for the most part.

>
>

[jeff]

not a problem. deploying is easy. there are simple, clear instructions
from crystal reports called "Crystal Reports for Visual Studio .NET
Application Deployment". It has both web and windows form application
deployment. other than that, it's like creating a report in access, and
actually the .net 1.1 version doesn't seem to be nearly as buggy. i haven't
had a crash yet (biggest problem in 1.0 version for me).

the problem i had was stupid things like you weren't able to drag/drop
certain things because it would blow .net up. however, if you double click
it, then it would work. after learning these things (a quick learner will
figure out quickly that dragging crashes it so you don't do it), it is a
breeze.

jeff

"Kevin Spencer" <kevin@SPAMMERSSUCKtakempis.com> wrote in message
news:eyZmDmBPDHA.2224@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

> If you can put together and deploy an ASP.Net Crystal Report in 5 minutes,
> my hat is off to you!
>
> HTH,
>
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft FrontPage MVP
> Internet Developer
> [url]http://www.takempis.com[/url]
> Big things are made up of
> lots of Little things.
>
> "jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:OErobcBPDHA.3152@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

> > well, if you find a way to put a chart in an html file in 5 minutes with

> the

> > basic tools supplied with .net, you might get me to listen to you.
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > "Kevin Spencer" <kevin@SPAMMERSSUCKtakempis.com> wrote in message
> > news:%23$LMJKBPDHA.2316@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> > > It's crufty to the max.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > >
> > > Kevin Spencer
> > > Microsoft FrontPage MVP
> > > Internet Developer
> > > [url]http://www.takempis.com[/url]
> > > Big things are made up of
> > > lots of Little things.
> > >
> > > "jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:uNJxUGBPDHA.1720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > it's a heck of a lot easier... it can export to pdf.... you can use

> the

> > > same
> > > > report file for a windows app and an asp.net app.... it supports
> > > > charts/graphs... plenty of reasons.
> > > >
> > > > jeff
> > > >
> > > > "Michael D. Kersey" <mdkersey@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
> > > > news:3EFB317E.2C863A8@hal-pc.org...
> > > > > Mark Roberts wrote:
> > > > > > Until I started to use Crystal Reports. It's crap beyond

anything

> > that

> > > > > > DLL hell ever managed to product. It's buggy, slow, clunky,

badly

> > > > > > designed (push or pull model anyone???).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But that's not the worst. It a bastard to deploy (esp. if you've

> had

> > > > > > the pleasure of going from 2002 to 2003). And then you'd be

lucky

> if

> > > > > > it actually works ok.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why would one use it? All you need to output reports is HTML and

> text

> > > > > for the most part.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>

[jeff]

i'm just a user of cr.

how do you think it's difficult to install. just read "Crystal Reports for
Visual Studio .NET Application Deployment". it puts in very plain english
the exact steps to deploy. it's about 6 steps. if you follow them (takes
you no more than 5 minutes to get it setup in .net), it works perfectly
every time. i don't know why nobody seems to read white papers on how to do
things.

jeff

"Michael D. Kersey" <mdkersey@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
news:3EFBBB5C.4E73BADE@hal-pc.org...

> jeff wrote:

> >
> > it's a heck of a lot easier... it can export to pdf.... you can use the

same

> > report file for a windows app and an asp.net app.... it supports
> > charts/graphs... plenty of reasons.

>
> You must be a Crystal Reports employee!-)) They're the only ones pushing
> the product.
>
> Crystal Reports is quite obviously an old Windows/Novell client/server
> package retrofitted to the WWW market. Crystal Reports is a pain to
> install and a pain to use. It is unnecessary: one needs only output HTML
> from ASP to produce reports.
>
> FWIW PDF is Adobe's proprietary format and is not a WWW standard at all
> (I *do* like PDFs for paper documents, but not for the WWW).
>
> The company needs to find a useful product to market and quit feeding
> off the oft-mistaken view of unknowing IT managers and other PHBs that
> somehow "reports" on the WWW should be anything other than HTML. Taking
> advantage of the stupidity of customers is NOT a marketing strategy.
>
> Good Luck,
> Michael D. Kersey

[jeff]

plenty of people like pdf, and many documents online are in that format.
you must see that as an advantage, maybe not to you, but to most users,
especially since you claim html is all that you need. html printing is
garbage. you can open a pdf file and print perfect files.

so, how do you do graphs/charts with html?

jeff

"Michael D. Kersey" <mdkersey@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
news:3EFBBB5C.4E73BADE@hal-pc.org...

> jeff wrote:

> >
> > it's a heck of a lot easier... it can export to pdf.... you can use the

same

> > report file for a windows app and an asp.net app.... it supports
> > charts/graphs... plenty of reasons.

>
> You must be a Crystal Reports employee!-)) They're the only ones pushing
> the product.
>
> Crystal Reports is quite obviously an old Windows/Novell client/server
> package retrofitted to the WWW market. Crystal Reports is a pain to
> install and a pain to use. It is unnecessary: one needs only output HTML
> from ASP to produce reports.
>
> FWIW PDF is Adobe's proprietary format and is not a WWW standard at all
> (I *do* like PDFs for paper documents, but not for the WWW).
>
> The company needs to find a useful product to market and quit feeding
> off the oft-mistaken view of unknowing IT managers and other PHBs that
> somehow "reports" on the WWW should be anything other than HTML. Taking
> advantage of the stupidity of customers is NOT a marketing strategy.
>
> Good Luck,
> Michael D. Kersey

[tom]

"jeff" <vader1000x@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ebX3$DMPDHA.3020@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>...

> so, how do you do graphs/charts with html?
> jeff
> jeff wrote:

> > so, how do you do graphs/charts with html?

[url]http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2170[/url] has suggestions for charting
and graphing on the WWW using Microsoft-compatible components and
tools.

[tom]

"Rick" <rick@NOSPAM.computetosuit.com> wrote in message
news:<egOonPMPDHA.2636@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>...

> "Michael D. Kersey" <mdkersey@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
> news:3EFB317E.2C863A8@hal-pc.org...

> > Why would one use it? All you need to output reports is HTML and text
> > for the most part.

> Youre not serious are you? Have you noticed that HTML produces different
> results at different resolutions, and even more different results with
> different browsers? This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as using
> HTML for reports goes.

Top-posting is bad etiquette. I have corrected your mistakes. I see
you are new to WWW by how you post and your old Windows ideas. Maybe
you go back to Visual Basic and leave WWW alone, OK?

PDF is proprietary format of Adobe corporation. HTML is W3C standard
[url]http://www.w3c.org/[/url] and is the language of the WWW. HTML is great for
reports: millions use it each day.

You have weird definition of "reports", since you do not use HTML for
reports, no? Tell us definition of a "report" without using the words
"HTML" or "PDF" or "Crystal Reports" so we can understand.

> With CR (which im not a big fan of either, but what
> else is out there?), at least you get consistent results, and you can export
> to PDF, which will definitely print correctly.

You cannot print from the browser?
Is not Crystal Reports license for that $200 per client?

Pay more for more trouble, slower response, extra API, new tool to
learn, and to make users angry with slow PDFs and Crystal Reports? Use
HTML and be OK.