Ctrl+Backspace?

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

I miss being able to press Ctrl+Backspace to delete one word to the left. Is it possible to set this in ID CS?

[Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com]

I don't think so. It's two keystrokes. Ctrl+Shift+left arrow selects the word to the left, then Delete.

[JohnO@adobeforums.com]

This (and its companion Ctrl-Delete) is one of the main reasons I use Word
to write original stuff. These extremely handy delete shortcuts work in
virtually every application I use, except for Adobe products. ;-)

-John O

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

Stever Werner> Ctrl+Shift+left arrow selects the word to the left, then
Delete. Gosh, I'm getting carpal tunnel just thinking about that.





Indeed, every other Windows text-handling app I've ever used observed Ctrl+Backspace. It's not as though ID reserved it for something else; it has no effect. I know Adobe is into being un-Microsoft-ish---but honestly, sometimes it seems as though they do it in sheer spite. :?P

Why can't we at least set this as a custom shortcut? This is basic stuff.

[Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com]

In its attempt to maintain compatibility with its Macintosh base, Adobe omits many ease of use features that Windows users have come to expect as routine. And it's a shame, because most of them would be trivially simple to implement.

It's doubly mistifying why Adobe is so committed to this when it clearly pays no attention to cross-product compatibility on the same platform.

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

In its attempt to maintain compatibility with its Macintosh base, Adobe
omits many ease of use features that Windows users have come to expect
as routine . . .




Is that what's going on? So there's no standard way to delete a word to the left on a Mac? That's a surprise. (Dang, and we Windows users don't get those cute little icons that incessantly hop up and down at the bottom of the screen, either... ;?)

I understand you can use scripts with ID CS. Does that include doing such things as programming such key-combinations? If you don't know, can you point me in the right direction to find out? Thanks!

[Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com]

I don't know whether there's a standard way to delete a word to the left on a Mac. 20 years ago, when Steve Jobs called me a lemming for preferring my $3,000 IBM AT with color monitor, 30MB drive, 640K of RAM, and thousands of software titles to his $5,000 Mac with a dinky little B&W monitor, single floppy drive, 128K of RAM, and no software, I made a pledge never to buy an Apple product.

You could write a script to delete the word to the left, then assign it to Ctrl-Backspace in the Keyboard Shortcuts dialog. (I note that Ctrl-Backspace is currently assigned to "Clear." Why "Clear" needs no less than four shortcut key combinations I do not profess to know.)

Before you get too excited about writing scripts, however, you should be aware that the InDesign scripting object model is a confused mess, designed by people who clearly had no idea what they were doing; and that the documentation for it - all 1,846 pages of it - may be the worst technical documentation I've seen in 37 years of working with technical matters.

If you're feeling brave, I think the scripting guide is somewhere on the InDesign distribution disks. There are also a set of so-called "Tutorials" that the author of the scripting guide posted a couple of months ago; they're really extended examples, not tutorials, but they're useful if you need to do what it is they are doing. Search the InDesign Scripting forum for "Tutorial" to find them. For more help, post questions in that forum.

Good luck!

[Marilyn_Langfeld@adobeforums.com]

Option delete (yes, there's a delete key) deletes a word to the left on the Mac, in Word, but does not work in InDesign. So, I doubt your theory, since option delete does work in Word.

[Andy_Fielding@adobeforums.com]

Stu B.> 20 years ago, when Steve Jobs called me a lemming for preferring
my $3,000 IBM AT with color monitor, 30MB drive, 640K of RAM, and thousands
of software titles to his $5,000 Mac with a dinky little B&W monitor,
single floppy drive, 128K of RAM, and no software, I made a pledge never
to buy an Apple product.




You needed an insult to come to that conclusion? :?)

Stu B.>Before you get too excited about writing scripts, however, you
should be aware that the InDesign scripting object model is a confused
mess . . .




Huh? I thought you could just use standard scripting languages like VBA and Java. Are you referring to some additional, Adobe-proprietary language?

Stu B.> . . . and that the documentation for it - all 1,846 pages of it
- may be the worst technical documentation I've seen in 37 years . . .




Ironic, considering that (a) Adobe produces FrameMaker, used by technical writers around the world; and (b) this bad documentation you're describing may prevent me from implementing a workaround that would enable me to produce documentation more effectively. Where does it all end . . . ?

Anyway, the way you make it sound, I'd probably be crazy to go to all that trouble just to program one key-combination. Guess I'll skip it. It'll give me something to grouse about, in case everything else around here gets too pleasant.

Marilyn L.> Option delete (yes, there's a delete key) deletes a word to
the left on the Mac, in Word, but does not work in InDesign. So, I doubt
your theory, since option delete does work in Word.




And of course neither Ctrl+Delete nor Alt+Delete have any effect here in ID for Windows. (Well, I can't be sure---they could be activating an automatic garage door somewhere.)

[JohnO@adobeforums.com]

> Option delete (yes, there's a delete key)

The Mac delete key is the same as the PC backspace. Last I looked, there was
no equivalent on the Mac for the PC's delete key...a key that deletes the
next character forward.

John O

[Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com]

Option delete (yes, there's a delete key) deletes a word to the left on
the Mac, in Word, but does not work in InDesign. So, I doubt your theory,
since option delete does work in Word.




I'll stand corrected, then.

[Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com]

thought you could just use standard scripting languages like VBA and Java.
Are you referring to some additional, Adobe-proprietary language?




You can indeed use VBA and Javascript. The issue is not the language, it is the object model that you manipulate using that language.

Ironic, considering that (a) Adobe produces FrameMaker, used by technical
writers around the world; and (b) this bad documentation you're describing
may prevent me from implementing a workaround that would enable me to
produce documentation more effectively. Where does it all end . .




There are a couple reasons for the documentation problems. First, Adobe assigned the writing of it to one person, and apparently it wasn't even his full-time job. To do an adequate job would have required a team.

The result is a hurried, slap-dash mess with huge gaps in basic information.

There are hundreds of objects; nowhere is there a description of the object hierarachy (which would have been a massive undertaking since the object hierarchy is so unnecessarily convoluted).

There is no description of the objects; for some of them (perhaps even most of them) it's self-evident, but for others it's not.

There is no description for many of the properties. Here's an example. Many objects have a property called "Texts." Here's what the manual tells you (over and over):

Property: Texts
Type: Texts
Description: Texts

Real helpful, eh?

That said, there are some basic things that wouldn't have taken that much time to do right. The property listings for most objects goes on for pages and pages; yet there are no running heads so that you can see what object you're looking at. There's no Table of Contents (even the wretched manuals I used in the Navy 30 years ago had that!). An index? Forget it!

I could go on ...

Anyway, the way you make it sound, I'd probably be crazy to go to all
that trouble just to program one key-combination. Guess I'll skip it.




Actually, if you pose a question over in the Scripting forum, you might get an answer about how to do it.

[M_Blackburn@adobeforums.com]

It seems to me that this request is a little over the top. Yes, you can find some little feature that is comfortable to you in even the most otherwise brain dead application. This isn't something Windows users are used to; it's something some Word users are used to. And I much prefer working in InDesign thank you.

[JohnO@adobeforums.com]

Mike, if you do a lot of writing ID's text editing tools are a serious
handicap. Doesn't have anything to do with Word directly, but clearly MS has
made the job more efficient. Even worse, the keyboard text selection tool in
ID2 is broken, shift-right arrow and such. (Try selecting the last word in a
sentence with Ctrl-Sh-RArrow and see what happens.) This is fixed in CS. As
I'm typing this in OE I notice that it has better text tools than ID...

ID's focus clearly isn't "writing," so I understand why these tools aren't
there. But this has been a major issue for me, trying to remember to switch
methods when I'm using Adobe products. Kinda like playing a guitar with an
alternate tuning. I'm lazy...I don't want to make my brain work any harder.

-John O

[Marilyn_Langfeld@adobeforums.com]

John O, I use a TiBook (with Virtual PC when I absolutely need it), so I can't comment on the normal Mac keyboard layout. But I found a key called fn at the lower left of my keyboard, which, when held while hitting the delete key, does delete forward.

[Marilyn_Langfeld@adobeforums.com]

There seem to be lots of posts lately bemoaning the fact that InDesign doesn't do one thing or another that's found in word processors, or long doc processors. Seems to me this can be looked at as a marker that InDesign is becoming more widely used.

I am a graphic designer, the original market (I think) for InDesign. I love it. I still remember the days before 'desktop design' so I can't complain at having to do workarounds for bulleted lists, or footnotes. I still remember the book I did pasteup for (with rubber cement, not wax) where I had to add a point or two of space between 12 or so list items (by cutting the galley into 12 little strips and moving them while praying that each one would stay in one piece) to get the vertical spacing to be absolutely right. We always had to add footnotes at the bottom of the page manually -- really manually.

So, I don't have too much sympathy for the lack of writing tools. Although I also wouldn't complain if lists and footnotes were easier to do.

John O -- have you tried ID's story editor? I haven't yet so I can't tell you what it can or can't do, but I'd check it out to see if it helps you. Another idea is to check out InCopy, which may fit your needs better, or as an addition to InDesign.

[JohnO@adobeforums.com]

> John O -- have you tried ID's story editor?

It's a lot better then writing in layout view. I used story editor all the
time in PM...but the text edit tools in ID CS are still the same as they
were in PM 4.2. InCopy is overkill, but I'd be amazed if it did
Ctrl-Backspace.

I figure the next version of ID (ID2005) will have a few tidbits for us
textbook people, since you artists have been getting all the good stuff so
far. :-) :-)

-John O

[M_Blackburn@adobeforums.com]

John O,

Methinks you've called me Mike before: it's Marc ; Mike's my younger brother <g>

Nontheless, I think my comment is still valid. ID is one of the most customizable applications out there, but in any application some choices are going to preclude others. You would like a keystroke combo that you're familiar with in Word, and even went as far to suggest that it was a Windows standard to support the notion that it should be in InDesign. But even if it were, that just doesn't cut it. One thing that bugs me about Word is that you can't use Ctrl-tab to flip between open documents and that IS a Windows standard. In fact, almost every program I know of conforms to that Microsoft standard except Microsoft Word. Why don't you get on the horn to them and ask them to straighten up? Because they won't, or they can't, or both.

If you're doing a lot of writing, why don't you do what other people do: use Word to write, and import into ID to do the typography. There are reasons for having different kinds of applications.

P.S. Marilyn's suggestion of using the story editor is a very unlikely alternative. I'm guessing it would be worse than typing in page layout.

[JohnO@adobeforums.com]

Sorry Marc, I must of thought you were your brother, I guess. :-)

In ID do a file open, and try Ctrl-Backspace on a multi-word file name. I'm
pretty sure that's Windows at work there.

I use Word for original writing, but this month I'm revising a book that's
already in ID. Sending it out to Word and back is unworkable at this point
in the project. For me, in many cases story editor is better than layout
view because I don't have to worry about text frames and pages. All depends
on the task.

Ctrl-tab? Maybe you mean Alt-tab... It does work in Office, if you've not
disabled the multiple-instance thingy, where each doc has its own button on
the Start menu. (choose your poison) I've forgotten where to set that,
otherwise it works the same in ID as in Word as in all other apps that don't
do multiple instances...Ctrl-F6.

John O

[M_Blackburn@adobeforums.com]

I see what you mean about Ctrl-Backspace in the file-name box. I'm not sure what to think about that. The same works in Word pad, but one would expect that, eh. It's a chopped down version of Word. But it doesn't work in NotePad and it doesn't work when editing file names in Explorer.

Absolutely, I doubt exporting and re-importing is ever a good idea. However, even though I was a staunch supporter of getting the story editor into ID, I don't think I'd want to use it to set much type.

I do mean ctrl-tab. That switches between open documents in the same application. Alt-tab switches between open applications. That is standard in all applications including Office — except for Word.

(oops, I forgot that I customized ctrl-tab to work in ID)