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Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do? - Photography

lionel, Word of advice .. do not let Miro rile you up into saying something you may later regret. The guy is here to do nothing but cause trouble. Most people within the newsgroup treat everything he says with the respect it deserves ... NONE "Lionel" <nopalt.net> wrote in message news:bd6pkh$9df$gpita.alt.net... > On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:19:52 +1000, in > <3ef6e25d$0$26638$afc38c87news.optusnet.com.au> , " Miro" > <miro01hotmail.com> said: > > >I think in future you must be clear who is responsible for the item. If you > >do not pay insurance and you do not pay for the best packing ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    lionel,

    Word of advice .. do not let Miro rile you up into saying something you may
    later regret. The guy is here to do nothing but cause trouble.

    Most people within the newsgroup treat everything he says with the respect
    it deserves ... NONE




    "Lionel" <nopalt.net> wrote in message news:bd6pkh$9df$gpita.alt.net...
    > On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:19:52 +1000, in
    > <3ef6e25d$0$26638$afc38c87news.optusnet.com.au> , " Miro"
    > <miro01hotmail.com> said:
    >
    > >I think in future you must be clear who is responsible for the item. If
    you
    > >do not pay insurance and you do not pay for the best packing and the best
    > >courier you really cant blame the seller.

    VH-MR2 Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    In article <bd69c8$5s5$1tomahawk.unsw.edu.au>,
    "Valar" <removespam.com> wrote:
    > if you wanted the matters to be settled efficiently then I think you have
    > committed a big mistake by bringing it on to a public forum, by doing so the
    > seller is less likely to co-operate, what with all the potential damages to
    > one's reputation, I dont think he will rest without putting up a fight.
    >
    > so I applaud your bravery for standing up for yourself, however by the same
    > token, I lament the tough road ahead at reclaiming the thou back.
    >
    >

    I don't think Lionel had any idea that the seller would read this ng
    when he posted. His original post was asking advice as to what he
    should do, and not to publicly humiliate the seller He didn't identify
    the seller at all in the origianl post. So, it was the seller that
    "went public", not the buyer; and that's when the post got interesting.

    BTW, it is morning now, and the seller hasn't posted the photos back to
    the auction site yet, as he said he would.

    N
    Narelle Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    Lionel wrote:
    > I've just bought a fancy lens via Ebay that was described as being in
    > fairly good condition ("some signs of use"), but turned out to have
    > major body damage on the side of the lens that wasn't shown in the ad
    > photos, as well as an internal rattle, & various scrapes in the metal at
    > the front of the lens.
    Unfortunately, it's a bit of Caveat Emptor.

    In this case, the photo's of the item looked great, the feedback of the
    seller were satisfactory, and I'd have suspected little was wrong with the
    item.
    If you're in Melbourne, and the seller is in Melbourne, I'd have asked to
    view the lense prior to purchase, or at least to pick it up from him & pay
    then. Harder if you're not in Melbourne, but you say "this guy is local to
    me".

    The only 2nd hand lenses I've looked at I've asked for additional photo's,
    and sample images taken with the lense. A trick here is to get them to write
    the ebay item number on a piece of paper, and then photograph the lense
    beside that number - so you know that's the one they're talking about, and
    not a 'borrowed' photo from the canon/nikon/pentax/whatever website.

    In terms of fraud, you've got little to stand on in terms of Vic Police.
    Your better option is to follow ebay guidelines...
    - leave negative feedback
    - follow their fraud protection service
    - pickup their $300 (or whatever it is) fraud refund thingy

    But in the end, it's 2nd hand, and they're never as good as new - regardless
    of what the seller says. s, but that's the way it goes.

    Andrew.


    ahennell Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    Lionel wrote:
    > >So how about you put aside the cosmetics, work something out and take some
    > >-hot photos.
    >
    > I'm just waiting for the guy to meet me halfway. So far, he's claiming
    > that his description was accurate, that it never had a rattle, & that he
    > has no obligation to me.
    The ding in it is, to me, a prior event. The rattle is a very possible result
    of the postage process. It could easily pick up a rattle without the packaging
    showing any signs of damage. Ever seen how parcels are thrown around?
    > Call me stubborn, but I don't like it when
    > people try to scam me, & very few of them get away with it.
    ok Stubborn, but imho it's not a big scam, although you didn't take a great
    number of steps to prevent this, as I've outlined in another post.
    > The bit that I'm really kicking myself about is that he only lives about
    > a 20 minute drive from me, so after winning the auction, I asked to come
    > take a look at the lens (before paying), & I stupidly let him talk me
    > out of doing so. He obviously knew I'd back out of the sale if I got a
    > look at the lens before paying.
    q.e.d.

    Cheers,
    Andrew.


    ahennell Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    VH-MR2 wrote:
    > lionel,
    >
    > Word of advice .. do not let Miro rile you up into saying something you may
    > later regret. The guy is here to do nothing but cause trouble.
    >
    > Most people within the newsgroup treat everything he says with the respect
    > it deserves ... NONE
    I've been caught out sticking up for Miro before, thinking he'd become a better
    person, only to find him returning to his ways of old. But...

    Between the garble & irrationally constructed words, Miro often has good
    advice. He often offers crap too. In this, he's no different to any other
    usenet poster, perhaps with the exception of myself ;)

    I read most posts here, I research elsewhere, I add it all up and end up with a
    composite of knowledge, endorsed or backed by my own experience. I find it's
    served me well.

    I won't get all Dalai Lama on you, but I will offer this advice: To ignore
    anyone is to expand your own ignorance.

    Cheers,
    Andrew :o)


    ahennell Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?


    "ahennell" <andrewhennell.com.au.com> wrote in message
    news:3EF7701B.BA6BB566hennell.com.au.com...
    > VH-MR2 wrote:
    >
    >
    > I won't get all Dalai Lama on you, but I will offer this advice: To
    ignore
    > anyone is to expand your own ignorance.
    Good advice, however Miro appears to be the only one trying to rile the
    situation up into a flame war .. others are merely engaging in a discussion.
    As you say, supporting Miro's stance on anything usually ends with you
    wearing egg on your face .. this is no different.

    I'd like to see this conversation continue in a mature manner .. we can all
    learn from what happened here and I am extremely interested in the outcome
    something i'm sure others will admit to as well. What I don't want to see
    is a huge internet argument about it though.

    I'd hope the outcome resulted in a return of the lense and a refund of the
    money (less postage) but we shall see.

    I will state quite clearly that I don't have the expertise to know if the
    damage is bad or not to the lense, but the fact that the side of the lense
    with the damage was not indicated on the auction site is IMO a big mistake
    on the part of the seller. Better to over inform people and risk losing a
    sale than gaining a sale and having an incident like this occur.



    B.


    VH-MR2 Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?


    "Rob" <audiobANTISPAMozemail.com.au> wrote in message
    news:3EF798F8.88E8CF68ozemail.com.au...
    > VH-MR2 wrote:
    > >
    >
    > > Good advice, however Miro appears to be the only one trying to rile the
    > > situation up into a flame war .. others are merely engaging in a
    discussion.
    > > As you say, supporting Miro's stance on anything usually ends with you
    > > wearing egg on your face .. this is no different.
    >
    > I believe that only happens when a retort is fired off without due
    > consideration, thereafter the thread usually quickly deterioirates.
    >
    > Rob
    You should be careful dealing with the thought Nazi's, they have long
    memories and they must not be contradicted.


    Miro Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?


    "ahennell" <andrewhennell.com.au.com> wrote in message
    news:3EF7701B.BA6BB566hennell.com.au.com...
    > VH-MR2 wrote:
    >
    > > lionel,
    > >
    > > Word of advice .. do not let Miro rile you up into saying something you
    may
    > > later regret. The guy is here to do nothing but cause trouble.
    > >
    > > Most people within the newsgroup treat everything he says with the
    respect
    > > it deserves ... NONE
    >
    > I've been caught out sticking up for Miro before, thinking he'd become a
    better
    > person, only to find him returning to his ways of old. But...
    You should only say what you feel reflects your interpretation or
    understanding of a subject. Whether it be based on fact or opinion matters
    little or not at all. The freedoms of thought are intended to be universally
    individual not pooled into factions and cohorts.

    If Usenet is meant to reflect similarity and total uniformity then it may
    come as a shock to most others that it is as diverse as society and those
    choosing to struggle with mere thought alone must have a similar deficit in
    other areas of their lives.

    If I see that someone agrees with me I feel that is ok, if someone disagrees
    I could care less.


    Miro Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    Where ever did you form that opinion Rob?
    Perhaps you are an E-bay dealer yourself- hmm? The warnings issued by E-bay
    themselves should serve as notice you simply can't trust the place. Consumer
    laws (Trade Practices Act) are quite clear about what you can expect in the
    way of recourse from an auction -- NOTHING!

    What right minded individual would pay out $1000 to a stranger identified
    only by a series of secret codes not even E-bay can trace? Worse than
    this... 90% of the sellers on e-bay are making a business out of it but
    unlike a "real" business, the buyer has absolutely no come back on the
    phantom seller either legally or via e-bay. When the Tax office eventually
    wake up to the scams going on there, all hell will break loose.

    Those idiots who think posting the price in US dollars is some how going to
    cirvent Australian GST are in for the biggest shock of their lives.

    JT


    "Rob" <audiobANTISPAMozemail.com.au> wrote in message
    news:3EF69A36.FEA3A84Aozemail.com.au...
    > Lionel wrote:
    >
    >
    > Give it time to work out before you cut off your nose to spite your
    > face. Most sellers can be trusted.
    >
    > Rob

    Auspics Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    ahennell wrote:
    > And FWIW, I buy & sell on ebay (and other sites), and I transact usually in US
    > dollars, and it's all above-board, legit & taxed. And I'm not a minority.
    > (note also that if your selling is just part of your hobby, and not a primary
    > income, the tax office don't care - it's explained quite clearly in the various
    > acts of parliament).
    Thanks Andrew.

    In addition to what you said (which was well said) transacting in US$
    simply means that the seller will have a far larger pool of potential
    bidders.

    Yes I buy and sell on eBay, I have people send me over US$5000 blind and
    I've sent over $3500 to sellers. Never been burnt. In fact I bought
    something the other day from the US worth US$250 and the guy shipped it
    pre-payment based solely on my eBay ID and my word.

    If you can't sort out the sellers with integrity don't bid.

    Rob
    Rob Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    VH-MR2 wrote:
    >
    > Good advice, however Miro appears to be the only one trying to rile the
    > situation up into a flame war .. others are merely engaging in a discussion.
    > As you say, supporting Miro's stance on anything usually ends with you
    > wearing egg on your face .. this is no different.
    I believe that only happens when a retort is fired off without due
    consideration, thereafter the thread usually quickly deterioirates.

    Rob
    Rob Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    Well now...
    It's an interest worth noting that the people posting replies in the flavor
    "It's the buyers fault" all seem to be E-bay dealers... Even if the $20,000
    they made out of it last year is just their "Hobby", they are still full-on
    dealers.

    It's a sad day when someone who relies on people giving them money for their
    livelihood (hobby if you wish), thinks the customer is the one who is wrong.
    It seems pretty clear from the photos I saw that the lens has bitten the
    bitumen (or concrete) and it is just as obvious that such damage could not
    occur in the packaging the lens arrived in unless it (the package) was also
    damaged.

    Given all that... The seller has pulled a scam on the buyer... He's taken
    advantage of the fact that a buyer seeing only the good side of the lens
    could be duped into thinking it was in the condition it was presented... It
    wasn't and that act of deception is called FRAUD in every other industry.

    The poster (ahennell) who admits to being a frequent E-bay seller of goods
    worth thousands of dollars and it just being a "hobby", hit the nail on the
    head when he said there is NO consumer protection at auctions be they real
    or on-line. What he curiously omitted to mention is that at a real auction
    bidders have the opportunity to "see and feel" before bidding.

    On E-bay all there is to rely on is the description of the goods by a
    phantom hiding behind an often odd sounding nick-name. Sellers on E-bay have
    a duty of care to describe every defect in whatever they sell. Anything less
    is fraudulent.

    JT
    > "" <andrewhennell.com.au.com> wrote in message
    > news:3EF7701B.BA6BB566hennell.com.au.com...
    > > VH-MR2 wrote:
    > >
    > > lionel, Word of advice .. do not let Miro rile you up into saying
    something you may
    > > later regret. The guy is here to do nothing but cause trouble.
    > >
    > > > Most people within the newsgroup treat everything he says with the
    respect
    > > > it deserves ... NONE
    > >
    > > I've been caught out sticking up for Miro before, thinking he'd become a
    > better person, only to find him returning to his ways of old. But...


    Auspics Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    I've been waiting for "caveat emptor" to come up in this discussion...

    "Caveat Emptor: commercial principle that without a warranty
    the buyer takes upon himself the risk of quality".

    He didnt really misadvertise it, but by the same token, I'd be pretty
    annoyed if it turned up like that. But I'd have asked directly about
    whether there was anything else wrong with it at all.



    Auspics wrote:
    > Well now...
    > It's an interest worth noting that the people posting replies in the flavor
    > "It's the buyers fault" all seem to be E-bay dealers... Even if the $20,000
    > they made out of it last year is just their "Hobby", they are still full-on
    > dealers.
    >
    > It's a sad day when someone who relies on people giving them money for their
    > livelihood (hobby if you wish), thinks the customer is the one who is wrong.
    > It seems pretty clear from the photos I saw that the lens has bitten the
    > bitumen (or concrete) and it is just as obvious that such damage could not
    > occur in the packaging the lens arrived in unless it (the package) was also
    > damaged.
    >
    > Given all that... The seller has pulled a scam on the buyer... He's taken
    > advantage of the fact that a buyer seeing only the good side of the lens
    > could be duped into thinking it was in the condition it was presented... It
    > wasn't and that act of deception is called FRAUD in every other industry.
    >
    > The poster (ahennell) who admits to being a frequent E-bay seller of goods
    > worth thousands of dollars and it just being a "hobby", hit the nail on the
    > head when he said there is NO consumer protection at auctions be they real
    > or on-line. What he curiously omitted to mention is that at a real auction
    > bidders have the opportunity to "see and feel" before bidding.
    >
    > On E-bay all there is to rely on is the description of the goods by a
    > phantom hiding behind an often odd sounding nick-name. Sellers on E-bay have
    > a duty of care to describe every defect in whatever they sell. Anything less
    > is fraudulent.
    >
    > JT
    >
    >
    >>"" <andrewhennell.com.au.com> wrote in message
    >>news:3EF7701B.BA6BB566hennell.com.au.com...
    >>
    >>>VH-MR2 wrote:
    >>>
    >>>lionel, Word of advice .. do not let Miro rile you up into saying
    >>
    > something you may
    >
    >>>later regret. The guy is here to do nothing but cause trouble.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Most people within the newsgroup treat everything he says with the
    >>>
    > respect
    >
    >>>>it deserves ... NONE
    >>>
    >>>I've been caught out sticking up for Miro before, thinking he'd become a
    >>
    >>better person, only to find him returning to his ways of old. But...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Scott Coutts Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    Auspics wrote:
    > Well now...
    > It's an interest worth noting that the people posting replies in the flavor
    > "It's the buyers fault" all seem to be E-bay dealers... Even if the $20,000
    > they made out of it last year is just their "Hobby", they are still full-on
    > dealers.
    oh god, I'd _love_ to have _made_ $20,000 from ebay! LOL. Where'd this figure
    come from? and who is "they"? Hearing voices again?
    > It's a sad day when someone who relies on people giving them money for their
    > livelihood (hobby if you wish), thinks the customer is the one who is wrong.
    [sigh] you don't get it do you? Someone who relies on it as their livelihood,
    will not rip off their buyers. It's as simple as that.
    (and before you decide I'm a bigwig dealer, I'm not - I've sold on ebay to
    dispose of old gear (replacing the trading post for that purpose), and in almost
    all cases received less than the item's book value.
    > It seems pretty clear from the photos I saw that the lens has bitten the
    > bitumen (or concrete) and it is just as obvious that such damage could not
    > occur in the packaging the lens arrived in unless it (the package) was also
    > damaged.
    For the dent? no. For the rattle? yes, easily in transit.
    > Given all that... The seller has pulled a scam on the buyer... He's taken
    > advantage of the fact that a buyer seeing only the good side of the lens
    > could be duped into thinking it was in the condition it was presented... It
    > wasn't and that act of deception is called FRAUD in every other industry.
    In his description of the goods, maybe. But all auctions, online or not, are
    buyer beware. Always have been, always will be, and if you don't like it, don't
    bid!
    > The poster (ahennell) who admits to being a frequent E-bay seller of goods
    > worth thousands of dollars and it just being a "hobby", hit the nail on the
    > head when he said there is NO consumer protection at auctions be they real
    > or on-line. What he curiously omitted to mention is that at a real auction
    > bidders have the opportunity to "see and feel" before bidding.
    Hallucinating again?
    Where did I say "thousands of dollars worth of goods"? I've _bought_ maybe $20k
    worth, but sales in total might add up to, oh, $4k max?
    What you curiously omitted is any fact in your quotation of me. Iindeed, you
    seem to have just made up figures.
    Regardless, ebay buyers can (and most DO) take precautions to reduce the risk of
    being dudded - it's not rocket science.
    > On E-bay all there is to rely on is the description of the goods by a
    > phantom hiding behind an often odd sounding nick-name. Sellers on E-bay have
    > a duty of care to describe every defect in whatever they sell. Anything less
    > is fraudulent.
    And buyers can take every step they can to ensure the goods _are_ what is
    described, and guess what (here's the interesting part you just don't get)... if
    you don't want to buy from ebay, don't. I've yet to see someone with a gun to
    their head saying "bid now or die".

    You get bargains on ebay. 2nd hand bargains. used, 2nd hand bargains. from
    strangers. And you want something like a brand new warranty? [chuckle] But
    even with this considered, most ebayers, all I've dealt with, are honourable
    people and there has been no malice or fraud of any sort.

    Continue the debate all you like, but don't misquote me or just invent things -
    it discredits what little credibility you have.

    Cheers,
    Andrew :o)


    ahennell Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    Scott Coutts wrote:
    > I've been waiting for "caveat emptor" to come up in this discussion...
    I did yesterday, when I began with "Unfortunately, it's a bit of Caveat Emptor"
    > "Caveat Emptor: commercial principle that without a warranty
    > the buyer takes upon himself the risk of quality".
    yup
    > He didnt really misadvertise it, but by the same token, I'd be pretty
    > annoyed if it turned up like that. But I'd have asked directly about
    > whether there was anything else wrong with it at all.
    exactly :o)


    ahennell Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    > Given all that... The seller has pulled a scam on the buyer...
    You just cant go around being an hole saying stuff like that. Being a
    their party and all its pretty clear the buyer is miffed for paying too much
    and the seller is doing the 3 card trick.

    What does that have to do with me ?


    Miro Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    hehe sorry, didnt see that one (:

    ahennell wrote:
    > Scott Coutts wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I've been waiting for "caveat emptor" to come up in this discussion...
    >
    >
    > I did yesterday, when I began with "Unfortunately, it's a bit of Caveat Emptor"
    >
    >
    >>"Caveat Emptor: commercial principle that without a warranty
    >> the buyer takes upon himself the risk of quality".
    >
    >
    > yup
    >
    >
    >>He didnt really misadvertise it, but by the same token, I'd be pretty
    >>annoyed if it turned up like that. But I'd have asked directly about
    >>whether there was anything else wrong with it at all.
    >
    >
    > exactly :o)
    >
    >
    Scott Coutts Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    I think the biggest problem now is that the buyer has referred to the
    seller as the "Dodgy Ebay seller", this derogetry and slanderous
    remark has created legal problems for the buyer. A vague ebay add is
    one thing, but the subject the buyer used for his post could put him
    in hot water, probaly more the seller.

    Even though the buyer did not mention the sellers name in the original
    post, he has now admitted who he was reffering to.

    It would have done alot for the case of the buyer if he had have just
    tried to work this out with the seller and not bring it up in a public
    forum.

    "Mr Biggus," <fu_kewhotmail.com_removenomail.> wrote in message news:<16affvscbo03q9oqvsh70u01cnjjvv11ml4ax.com>. ..
    > report it to ebay.
    >
    > You know where he lives, drop round with several mates and visit him
    John Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    Rob <audiobANTISPAMozemail.com.au> wrote in
    news:3EF79056.72D95827ozemail.com.au:

    <snip>
    >
    > If you can't sort out the sellers with integrity don't bid.
    Good point.

    Must be why I don't.

    Trevor S
    Trevor S Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Dodgy Ebay seller - what to do?

    I disagree .. the seller chose to identify himself.


    "John" <johnwilsonphat.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:c46f4728.0306232157.65f68c51posting.google.c om...
    > I think the biggest problem now is that the buyer has referred to the
    > seller as the "Dodgy Ebay seller", this derogetry and slanderous
    > remark has created legal problems for the buyer. A vague ebay add is
    > one thing, but the subject the buyer used for his post could put him
    > in hot water, probaly more the seller.
    >
    > Even though the buyer did not mention the sellers name in the original
    > post, he has now admitted who he was reffering to.
    >
    > It would have done alot for the case of the buyer if he had have just
    > tried to work this out with the seller and not bring it up in a public
    > forum.
    >

    VH-MR2 Guest

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