Professional Web Applications Themes

does iBook need UPS? - Mac Applications & Software

I've decided to get a UPS system for my eMac and other desktop equipment. Should I also plug my iBook into it? The iBook has its own battery and I've seen it kick in immediately when the power has gone out. Would there be less wear and tear on the iBook battery if I let the UPS do the job when the iBook is on my desk beside the eMac? -- ca...

  1. #1

    Default does iBook need UPS?

    I've decided to get a UPS system for my eMac and other desktop
    equipment. Should I also plug my iBook into it? The iBook has its own
    battery and I've seen it kick in immediately when the power has gone
    out. Would there be less wear and tear on the iBook battery if I let the
    UPS do the job when the iBook is on my desk beside the eMac?

    --
    ca
    dotlyc Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <%G16b.22589$bellglobal.com>,
    dotlyc <ca> wrote:
     

    Ya see! There is NO INTELLIGENT LIFE in the universe, let alone these
    NGs!

    Could anyone be so STUPID! <-rhetorical

    --
    Enough <com>
    Enough Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <%G16b.22589$bellglobal.com>,
    dotlyc <ca> wrote:
     

    I've also seen the battery kick in on electric power glitches with no
    apparent loss of data or other problems; and from my limited knowledge
    of batteries I doubt that "wear and tear" is a problem -- occasional use
    might even be good for the battery.

    But I'd like to ask the same UPS question from a different viewpoint:
    Does the iBook's standard supply provide at least some filtering against
    potential *physical damage to the iBook* due to high-energy transients
    on the 110 V line? (That's the second and maybe even more important
    reason for using UPS's.)

    I suspect it does: the 110 VAC to 12 (?) VDC conversion must provide
    some filtering and protection. But does anyone really know?
    AES/newspost Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <stanford.edu>,
    AES/newspost <edu> wrote:
     
    >
    > I've also seen the battery kick in on electric power glitches with no
    > apparent loss of data or other problems; and from my limited knowledge
    > of batteries I doubt that "wear and tear" is a problem -- occasional use
    > might even be good for the battery.
    >
    > But I'd like to ask the same UPS question from a different viewpoint:
    > Does the iBook's standard supply provide at least some filtering against
    > potential *physical damage to the iBook* due to high-energy transients
    > on the 110 V line? (That's the second and maybe even more important
    > reason for using UPS's.)
    >
    > I suspect it does: the 110 VAC to 12 (?) VDC conversion must provide
    > some filtering and protection. But does anyone really know?[/ref]

    UPS, line filtering, and surge protection are different things. The
    laptop should have external surge protection if you live in an area with
    lightning or power problems. Its internal protection is only good for
    common little surges like turning on a vacuum cleaner. Lightning will
    vaporize the first surge protector it encounters so you don't want that
    to be the one in your fancy power supply.
    Kevin Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <supernews.com>,
    Kevin McMurtrie <com> wrote:
     

    I spoke with a tech support guy at one store and he said that I
    wouldn't need to plug it into one of the power plugs, but recommended
    that I plug it into one of the other slots to provide it with line
    filtering and surge protection.

    --
    ca
    dotlyc Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    dotlyc <ca> wrote:
     

    The only caveat I can think of is this that the typical consumer UPS
    generates a stepped square wave instead of a true sine wave when running
    on battery power. That square wave output contains a significant amount
    of higher frequency line noise that might trip an internal circuit
    breaker in your iBook's power adapter. The only way to tell is to try
    it. (If the adapter's circuit breaker trips, just unplug it from the AC
    for a few seconds.)
    Neill Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <1g0t8bf.i70gup1ej2udmN%net>,
    net (Neill Massello) wrote:
     
    >
    > The only caveat I can think of is this that the typical consumer UPS
    > generates a stepped square wave instead of a true sine wave when running
    > on battery power. That square wave output contains a significant amount
    > of higher frequency line noise that might trip an internal circuit
    > breaker in your iBook's power adapter. The only way to tell is to try
    > it. (If the adapter's circuit breaker trips, just unplug it from the AC
    > for a few seconds.)[/ref]

    I mentioned in another post that a tech support guy recommended
    that I plug the iBook into one of the plugs that provides line filtering
    and surge protection, but I don't need to plug it into the ones that
    provide emergency power. Do you agree that would be the best thing to
    do?

    --
    ca
    dotlyc Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    dotlyc <ca> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > The only caveat I can think of is this that the typical consumer UPS
    > > generates a stepped square wave instead of a true sine wave when running
    > > on battery power. That square wave output contains a significant amount
    > > of higher frequency line noise that might trip an internal circuit
    > > breaker in your iBook's power adapter. The only way to tell is to try
    > > it. (If the adapter's circuit breaker trips, just unplug it from the AC
    > > for a few seconds.)[/ref]
    >
    > I mentioned in another post that a tech support guy recommended
    > that I plug the iBook into one of the plugs that provides line filtering
    > and surge protection, but I don't need to plug it into the ones that
    > provide emergency power. Do you agree that would be the best thing to
    > do?[/ref]

    Yes. It's what I do in most locations where I use my PowerBook.
    Neill Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <G466b.3658$bellglobal.com>,
    dotlyc <ca> wrote:
     
    >
    > I spoke with a tech support guy at one store and he said that I
    > wouldn't need to plug it into one of the power plugs, but recommended
    > that I plug it into one of the other slots to provide it with line
    > filtering and surge protection.[/ref]

    Filtering isn't needed but it's OK if it's already there.
    Kevin Guest

  10. Moderated Post

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    Removed by Administrator
    David Guest
    Moderated Post

  11. #11

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    net (Neill Massello) writes: 

    This problem was a lot worse in the past.

    Today's consumer UPS's still don't generate a sine wave, but their
    stepped approximation of one is pretty good. Definitely a lot
    cleaner than the square-wave output of models in prior years.

    I have been told, however, that even the best modern UPS's signal
    will degrade and start approximating a square wave if you load it
    down. You may want to make sure not to load it beyond 50-75% of its
    capacity if you think this will cause problems.
     

    Have you ever heard of this actually happening?

    The only downside to square-wave output I've ever heard of is that it
    can induce noise into audio components. (This was advice from a
    mailing list that was talking about protecting the power in recording
    studios.)

    -- David
    David Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In comp.sys.mac.system dotlyc <ca> wrote: 

    Are you confusing a UPS with a surge supressor? The two are very
    different. A UPS will keep your computers running for a brief period of
    time during a power failure. Unless you run mission critical applications,
    I suspect a UPS is not important for your needs. You probably need a surge
    supressor.

    stan@temple.edu Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <bjbhlh$cpq$temple.edu>, edu wrote:
     
    >
    > Are you confusing a UPS with a surge supressor? The two are very
    > different. A UPS will keep your computers running for a brief period of
    > time during a power failure. Unless you run mission critical applications,
    > I suspect a UPS is not important for your needs. You probably need a surge
    > supressor.[/ref]

    No, I know UPS and surge suppressors are different things. I have
    all my equipment on surge suppressors now. I've read that UPS systems
    can protect computers against damage that might occur during a sudden
    loss of power.
    Having recently experienced a major blackout, I'm concerned that
    these might occur more frequently in the future. I also live in an area
    that gets frequent summer thunderstorms and we often lose power
    suddenly, though not usually for long periods of time. I try to shut
    down during storms but often have to risk continuing to use the
    computers.

    --
    ca
    dotlyc Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <invalid>, com (David C.)
    wrote:
     
    >
    > This problem was a lot worse in the past.
    >
    > Today's consumer UPS's still don't generate a sine wave, but their
    > stepped approximation of one is pretty good. Definitely a lot
    > cleaner than the square-wave output of models in prior years.
    >
    > I have been told, however, that even the best modern UPS's signal
    > will degrade and start approximating a square wave if you load it
    > down. You may want to make sure not to load it beyond 50-75% of its
    > capacity if you think this will cause problems.

    >
    > Have you ever heard of this actually happening?
    >
    > The only downside to square-wave output I've ever heard of is that it
    > can induce noise into audio components. (This was advice from a
    > mailing list that was talking about protecting the power in recording
    > studios.)
    >
    > -- David[/ref]

    The stepped waves are perfectly fine with switching power supplies. The
    only thing they won't drive well are circuits using a series capacitor,
    like cheap rechargable flashlights, GFCI circuits, and some motors.

    The square wave outputs are more of a problem. A 120VAC square wave
    rectifies to 120VDC while a 120VAC sine wave rectifies to about 169VDC.
    Circuits can have undervoltage problems if they're relying on peak
    voltage. Square waves will not run AC-only motors very well at all
    because a square wave doesn't properly shift phases to create a spinning
    magnetic field. There's also not much of a rest between phases so SCR
    driven equipment will often malfunction.
    Kevin Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <supernews.com>, Kevin McMurtrie <com> writes: 
    >>
    >> I've also seen the battery kick in on electric power glitches with no
    >> apparent loss of data or other problems; and from my limited knowledge
    >> of batteries I doubt that "wear and tear" is a problem -- occasional use
    >> might even be good for the battery.
    >>
    >> But I'd like to ask the same UPS question from a different viewpoint:
    >> Does the iBook's standard supply provide at least some filtering against
    >> potential *physical damage to the iBook* due to high-energy transients
    >> on the 110 V line? (That's the second and maybe even more important
    >> reason for using UPS's.)
    >>
    >> I suspect it does: the 110 VAC to 12 (?) VDC conversion must provide
    >> some filtering and protection. But does anyone really know?[/ref]
    >
    > UPS, line filtering, and surge protection are different things. The
    > laptop should have external surge protection if you live in an area with
    > lightning or power problems. Its internal protection is only good for
    > common little surges like turning on a vacuum cleaner. Lightning will
    > vaporize the first surge protector it encounters so you don't want that
    > to be the one in your fancy power supply.[/ref]

    I see that a spare iBook power adaptor is 79 USD at http://store.apple.com.
    It's not just a matter of price, but the availability of a new one if
    disaster strikes at a weekend or on a public holiday.

    There's also the issue of the internal modem, for those who use it.
    Paul Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In comp.sys.mac.system dotlyc <ca> wrote: 

    True, but damage of a Mac due to a loss of power is extremely unlikely.
    In the building where I live, we have a power failure at least once
    a month. My Mac runs 24x7 and I have been living in the same apartment
    for more than 6 years and I have never had a problem.

    The problem with a power loss tends to damage data on high speed SCSI
    RAID drives, but few Mac owners have that type of technology.
     

    During a Thunderstorm, it is wise to shutdown and unplug your Mac.
    This is not out of concern for a power loss, but for a power spike. I
    assure you that no surge supressor a consumer could afford will shield
    your Mac from a lightning strike. Lightning will win out every time.

    stan@temple.edu Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    Plug-in surge protectors and UPSes don't even claim to
    "shield your Mac from a lightning strike." Effective surge
    protectors are available for protection from the direct
    lightning strike. But no surge protector will stop, block,
    absorb, or filter that transient.

    Surge protectors are not surge protection. A surge
    protector is effective when it connects typically less than 10
    feet to a central earth ground. What does lightning seek?
    Earth. An effective surge protector simply connects lightning
    to earth. Ineffective surge protectors are the plug-in type
    that forget to mention any of this. Plug-in protectors give
    surge protection a bad name because they are not effective and
    quietly don't even claim to provide that protection.

    Macs already have effective internal protection. Anything
    that a plug-in protector would do is already inside the Mac.
    BUT that internal protection assumes a surge will be earthed
    before it can enter the building. If not earthed, then a
    surge may overwhelm internal Mac protection.

    Effective protection is called 'whole house'. So important
    and effective that the telco already installs one on a phone
    line - for free. But one wire that most often delivers
    destructive surges is that wire that rarely has an effective
    'whole house' protector - AC electric. AC electric surges are
    the most common source of modem damage.

    Minimally effective 'whole house' protectors are even sold
    in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC or EG240RC or Siemens
    QSA2020. That is protection for the Mac and everything else
    in the building for less than $1 per protected appliance.

    Protector that is effective because it makes the so critical
    less than 10 foot connection to a central earth ground.
    Lightning is not seeking appliances. Lightning seeks earth
    ground. Mac is only damaged because it was in that lightning
    path to earth ground. 'Whole house' protector provides an
    earth ground path that does not include the Mac.

    For all surge protectors: a surge protector is only as
    effective as its earth ground. If that power strip or UPS
    does not mention earthing, then it does not claim effective
    protection.


    edu wrote: 
    >
    > During a Thunderstorm, it is wise to shutdown and unplug your Mac.
    > This is not out of concern for a power loss, but for a power spike.
    > I assure you that no surge supressor a consumer could afford will
    > Lightning will win out every time.[/ref]
    w_tom Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <com>, w_tom <com>
    wrote:
     

    Nothing will stop a direct local strike. All you can do is hope that
    it's far enough down the power lines. Protectors in the junction box
    are more powerful and will stop lightning that's a little closer.
     

    Not true. A plug-in surge protector limits the relative voltages
    between the power lines. That's all that matters up to about 2KV.

     

    Ture Earth, again, doesn't matter. It's all relative. It should be
    noted that the Mac's MOV is behind a fuse that's not user replacable. A
    strong surge will require that the power supply be cut open for repairs
    or replaced.

     
    > >
    > > During a Thunderstorm, it is wise to shutdown and unplug your Mac.
    > > This is not out of concern for a power loss, but for a power spike.
    > > I assure you that no surge supressor a consumer could afford will
    > > Lightning will win out every time.[/ref][/ref]
    Kevin Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    In article <bjfh87$g80$temple.edu>, edu wrote:
     
    >
    > True, but damage of a Mac due to a loss of power is extremely unlikely.
    > In the building where I live, we have a power failure at least once
    > a month. My Mac runs 24x7 and I have been living in the same apartment
    > for more than 6 years and I have never had a problem.[/ref]

    I've also had a similar experience. We do get power outages around
    here (thankfully not frequently) and my Macs have survived everything so
    far without any noticeable problems. I guess I just wanted another level
    of protection, particularly since I'm concerned that the power supply
    may not be as reliable in the future has it has been in the past.
     
    I almost always shut down during a thunderstorm because it's rarely
    worth the risk to the equipment. But there have been a few times when
    I've been on a really tight deadline where I've risked continuing to
    work.
    Back in the 1970s, my Apple II survived an outage caused by a
    direct lightning hit to a transformer near my house.

    --
    ca
    dotlyc Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: does iBook need UPS?

    Kevin again is talking about surge protectors stopping a
    direct strike. That is not what protectors do. They conduct
    direct strikes to earth ground using principles proven
    repeatedly virtually in every town. For example, a
    $multi-million computer is connected to overhead wires
    everywhere in town. Is phone service shutdown everytime a
    thunderstorm approaches? Do operators remove headsets? Do
    911 operators stop taking calls so they are not shocked?

    Reality is that direct lightning strikes are routinely
    earthed without damage to any equipment using the simple and
    inexpensive 'whole house' earthing technique. It is why those
    above services don't shutdown. However many have suffered
    damage using plug-in protectors, then wildly speculate that
    nothing can protect from surges. Such naysayers don't even
    know the numbers. But they know because they feel.
    Ineffective surge protector manufacturer love these kinds of
    people.

    My computers are powered and running during every
    thunderstorm. Even if powered off, computer is still at risk
    - especially if using an adjacent surge protector. Experience
    with surge protection means I don't worry about such damage.
    Earth ground is the secret. Surge protector only required
    where a wire cannot be connected *directly* to earth ground.

    In the meantime Kevin is still talking about "stop a direct
    local strike". He misses the point. He still thinks "the
    Mac's MOV is behind a fuse" is suppose to stop a surge.
    Nothing effective tries to stop a direct strike. Concept that
    a surge will be stopped is promoted by ineffective plug-in
    protectors that also don't even claim to provide this
    protection.

    Surge damage was so easily avoided, even before WWII, as to
    be considered human failure. Again that surge protector is
    only as effective as its earth ground. Effective protectors
    have a dedicated wire connecting to earth ground. Ineffective
    plug-in protector even avoid mentioning the topic so that many
    will speculate that it stops a surge.

    dotlyc's original question is about plug-in protector to
    protect hardware. They don't even claim to protect from
    surges - just like power strip surge protectors. And if
    sudden power off causes damage, then so does turning it off by
    power switch. After all, computer knows no difference between
    utility power loss and power off by switch. Power off does
    not harm hardware. But an unexpected power loss can cause
    data loss. That is what the plug-in UPS is for - data
    protection; not hardware protection.

    If one has a problem with that statement, then one better be
    prepared with technical reasons why AND numerical specs from
    the manufacturer. Power loss and even extreme brownouts never
    damaged properly design hardware - even in the power supplies
    30 years ago before Apple existed. Technology is that well
    proven and explained by one who designed - comes from where
    the work gets done.

    Kevin McMurtrie wrote: 
    >
    > Nothing will stop a direct local strike. All you can do is hope that
    > it's far enough down the power lines. Protectors in the junction box
    > are more powerful and will stop lightning that's a little closer.

    >
    > Not true. A plug-in surge protector limits the relative voltages
    > between the power lines. That's all that matters up to about 2KV.

    >
    > Ture Earth, again, doesn't matter. It's all relative. It should be
    > noted that the Mac's MOV is behind a fuse that's not user replacable.
    > A strong surge will require that the power supply be cut open for
    > repairs or replaced.[/ref]
    w_tom Guest

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. iBook
    By Craig Hartel in forum Macromedia Fireworks
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: September 22nd, 07:20 PM
  2. iBook won't charge
    By H.B. Elkins in forum Mac Portable
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: September 4th, 01:46 PM
  3. Value of my ibook
    By forge in forum Mac Networking
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: August 6th, 01:52 AM
  4. using iBook as an ext HD
    By Michael Steiper in forum Mac Applications & Software
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: July 9th, 02:06 AM
  5. iBook USB 1.0 or 2.0?
    By AJ in forum Mac Portable
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: July 1st, 12:55 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139