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dogma ...without the personal attacks - PERL Miscellaneous

I'm going to say it again...there is a whole lot of dogma and mythology in this group. Leave out the personal attacks this time and try to have a serious discussion about it...otherwise you are just degrading Perl.........

  1. #1

    Default dogma ...without the personal attacks

    I'm going to say it again...there is a whole lot of dogma and
    mythology in this group.

    Leave out the personal attacks this time and try to have a serious
    discussion about it...otherwise you are just degrading Perl......
    hudson Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    >m-w.com defines dogma as "something held as an established opinion".
    >So in that sense, yes, there's a lot of dogma.
    Hi...I always thought of dogma as pretty much a party line...it
    doesn't have good connotations....kind of fascist
    >That, however, doesn't make it wrong. The dogma in question is the
    >result of many years of experience.
    Fascist reasoning is to be questioned...that's for sure! Never trust
    the party line...
    hudson Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    In article <ipg6kv02nk9gk8egmmq39lfmnaf5le5a7i4ax.com>, hudson wrote:
    >>m-w.com defines dogma as "something held as an established opinion".
    >>So in that sense, yes, there's a lot of dogma.
    >
    > Hi...I always thought of dogma as pretty much a party line...it
    > doesn't have good connotations....kind of fascist
    Granted, that is another accepted definition of dogma.
    >>That, however, doesn't make it wrong. The dogma in question is the
    >>result of many years of experience.
    >
    > Fascist reasoning is to be questioned...that's for sure! Never trust
    > the party line...
    You seem to be missing my point. Just because something is "the party
    line" doesn't make it wrong. It doesn't make it right either, but just
    because a majority believes something doesn't make them automatically
    wrong.

    For example, the idea that murder is a Bad Thing (tm) is pretty
    generally accepted. Does that mean it's a good thing? No. Granted,
    it's an extreme example, but it's still the same idea.

    dha

    --
    David H. Adler - <dhapanix.com> - [url]http://www.panix.com/~dha/[/url]
    "Anybody's apt to trip."
    "Not over a sofa!" - The Lady Eve
    David H. Adler Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    >>>>> "SB" == Si Ballenger <shb> writes:

    SB> There is a small clique of comp.lang.perl.misc "clerics" that
    SB> like to beat up on nubies and other infidels that don't bow
    SB> before them. When they resort to personal attacks, you know
    SB> you've got them out of their safe little caves and have them on
    SB> the run. Sooner or later they will give you their big "PLONK!",
    SB> which is the equivalent of them rolling over like a dog,
    SB> urinating on themselves, and then hiding under mommies skirt.
    SB> Actually good entertainment. ;-)

    and there is the other clique which doesn't care about professional
    quality code or being correct or efficiency or good perl in general. you
    can choose which side to be on. note that this second clique doesn't
    teach perl professionally, doesn't attend or lecture at conferences,
    doesn't write articles or tutorials for various publications, doesn't
    write/edit/review books, etc. with your choice of the other clique i
    would expect you to also get your medical advice from the radio call in
    show or your financial advice from spam. both are very user friendly and
    won't ever give you practical feedback or criticism.

    programming is a career and a living for most (if not all) of the
    regulars here. like most professions, experience matters. you want the
    lawyer who has done your type of law and successfully, not some kid who
    just watched law and order season 3 on dvd. the problem with programming
    (and this group) is that that kid can also post answers here and there
    is no public way of judging the quality of those answers except via
    feedback from others. yet you would claim to use that dvd watching kid
    just because he is nicer to you or lets you tell him how to plead your
    case. that is a fool hiring a fool. go for it. just don't let me near
    your resume.

    programming is so easy to get into and make a hobby. it not even hard to
    find a job (at least when the market is hot) without massive experience
    or degrees. there is a constant discussion over 'certification' in
    programming (and perl in particular). would you rather use a CPA or your
    cousin who knows how to run quicken to do your taxes?

    so stop with your silly lambasting of the regulars here. the regulars
    all know and respect each other and notice that we don't flame anyone
    for a mistake or feedback or whatever. we all take proper critical
    feedback as what it is and not personal attacks. only the weak spirited
    and unprofessional take such replies personally. i have no problem with
    anyone commenting on the technical aspects of my posts and code. i may
    disagree with them and even say so but that is not personal. as they
    said in the godfather, it is just business. coding is all about peer
    review. code is for people, not computers. but that is too high a
    concept for most newbies and amateur coders. i have been coding for 29
    years now (24 of those as a paid professional) and i have seen and
    written more code than most of you. i am hired for that experience. i
    offer it here for free. you can take it or leave it but insulting me for
    my technical comments marks you as a fool. and that is a personal
    comment on you.

    and dave adler's comments on dogma were right on target. the majority
    choice is not right or wrong just based on that majority. dogma is bad
    when it is not created from free choice. here the use of modules and
    cpan is not issued from above and forced upon the perl community. it was
    developed over 50 years ago and refined in the greater computer
    community. the perl community just has adopted it and refined it even
    further with modules and cpan. and there is nothing to stop you from not
    using a module. just the voice of experience and reason will say it is a
    bad thing and that isn't nice to hear when you think you know it all
    (and really don't).

    uri

    --
    Uri Guttman ------ [email]uristemsystems.com[/email] -------- [url]http://www.stemsystems.com[/url]
    --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
    Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- [url]http://jobs.perl.org[/url]
    Uri Guttman Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    >>>>> "h" == hudson <nonenobody.com> writes:

    h> if you think about it uri, you started this whole mess by calling me a
    h> script kiddie and unexperienced when I posted some code and questioned
    h> what you said.

    so i said that and i still say it. you are a kid. you write
    scripts. your code quality (IMNSHO) is of the level of script kiddies
    and matt's and other free scripts. you show no professional coding
    skills, have no credentials, don't understand bigger issues, so you
    look, sound and seem like a script kiddie.

    how long have you been coding? how long have you been working in the
    computer field? what is the most complex program you have written? have
    you ever worked with groups of coders? have you ever written tools or
    libraries of code for others?

    those are all professional qualifications. you have demonstrated NONE of
    them. you have acted childish, petulent, arrogant, among other ways that
    do not make you look good.

    and again, in my PROFESSIONAL OPINION (i get paid for this all the
    time), your code is poor. take that as a free code review. it is
    NOT an attack on you personally (though you certainly warrant personal
    attacks given your behavior here). code review is one of the things this
    group does. look at the history of moronzilla (purl gurl among other
    nicks). she has always been an isolated loner who preys on newbies and
    like a broken clock is right on random occassions. but she always takes
    code review as personal and nasty attacks. she has major psychological
    problems. even you could detect that from reading her posts. use google
    and see. do you want to go down in history as being like her? then stop
    this attitude of 'i know best' when you don't. you have no credentials
    here so don't act like you do. this is a wakeup call and if you heed it,
    one day you make actually thank me for it. but i doubt you will. teens
    like you live life like everything is theirs and all attacks are
    personal.

    you have a chance here to actually grow up by looking inside you and
    accepting the fact that you are not a great coder now. you may grow into
    one at some time in the future. but your skills are very limited and
    narrow. just because you can partially solve a problem like cgi or soap
    doens't mean a damned thing. try something harder. try doing it
    completely with a clean API and flexible design and full
    docuementation. that is what a professional coder strives to do. just
    whipping out a short script is what amateurs and kiddies do. amateurs
    are fine and i have no problem with learning code that way. but don't
    say your code is as good or better than some module written by a pro who
    has more coding skill in one finger than you will ever have. i know
    lincoln stein and he would laugh at your code (if he was the type that
    did such things). he is too nice a guy to say things like that though.

    so stop your act. stop posting so much useless stuff. post code, ask
    perl questions, discuss perl code and ideas, etc. that is what this
    group is for. it is not your personal playpen or amusement park.

    will you take that challenge? i hope you do.

    uri

    --
    Uri Guttman ------ [email]uristemsystems.com[/email] -------- [url]http://www.stemsystems.com[/url]
    --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
    Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- [url]http://jobs.perl.org[/url]
    Uri Guttman Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

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    Hash: SHA1

    In article <tha8kvcf4uj0ecs49p6c2jnj462c56tvl64ax.com>, hudson wrote:
    > if you think about it uri, you started this whole mess by calling me a
    > script kiddie and unexperienced when I posted some code and questioned
    > what you said.
    "Mom, hudson's growing!"

    It would be considerate of you to not morph your address, so that
    those of us with you in our killfiles can continue to enjoy
    relative peace and quiet.

    - --keith

    - --
    [email]kkeller-mmmspamwombat.san-francisco.ca.us[/email]
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

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    Keith Keller Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:12:31 -0700, hudson <nonenobody.com> wrote:
    > if you think about it uri, you started this whole mess by calling me a
    > script kiddie and unexperienced when I posted some code and questioned
    > what you said.
    You said you wanted to be killfiled.

    Could you stop posting from different fake addresses, so that the killfile
    would actually get all of your blatherings.

    Thanks.

    --
    Sam Holden
    Sam Holden Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    >>>>> "hudson" == hudson <nonenobody.com> writes:
    [something]

    Please don't use "nobody.com". That's someone else's domain. For
    that, we can probably get you an AUP violation from your posting host,
    and then you'd be bumped off.

    Either use "example.com", because it's permitted, or use something
    that's not a valid top-level domain. ".invalid" is recommended, so
    something like "nobodythisdomain.invalid" is fair.

    I had to go round this with Kira as well. You can be anonymous, just
    don't do it by taking over someone else's domain (current or future).

    --
    Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
    <merlynstonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
    Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
    See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
    Randal L. Schwartz Guest

  9. #9

    Default Purl Gurl Net Rocks! was (Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks)

    Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
    > I had to go round this with Kira as well. You can be anonymous, just
    > don't do it by taking over someone else's domain (current or future).
    Ahh... the domain I was using years back, was not registered.
    Clearly a domain to which none could lay claim, until purchased
    and registered. I did not "take over" a domain nor cause anyone
    harm, quite obviously. I did no wrong. Can you claim the same?

    Who owns that unique domain now? Who is about to host that
    unique domain at home on a very powerful server?


    Purl Gurl
    Purl Gurl Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    if you think about it uri, you started this whole mess by calling me a
    script kiddie and unexperienced when I posted some code and questioned
    what you said.

    hudson Guest

  11. Moderated Post

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    Removed by Administrator
    hudson Guest
    Moderated Post

  12. #12

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 01:18:31 GMT, [email]merlynstonehenge.com[/email] (Randal L.
    Schwartz) wrote:
    >>>>>> "hudson" == hudson <nonenobody.com> writes:
    >[something]
    >
    >Please don't use "nobody.com". That's someone else's domain. For
    >that, we can probably get you an AUP violation from your posting host,
    >and then you'd be bumped off.
    >
    >Either use "example.com", because it's permitted, or use something
    >that's not a valid top-level domain. ".invalid" is recommended, so
    >something like "nobodythisdomain.invalid" is fair.
    >
    >I had to go round this with Kira as well. You can be anonymous, just
    >don't do it by taking over someone else's domain (current or future).
    sorry...better?
    hudson Guest

  13. Moderated Post

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    Removed by Administrator
    David H. Adler Guest
    Moderated Post

  14. #14

    Default Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks

    On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:46:09 -0500, [email]tadmcaugustmail.com[/email] (Tad
    McClellan) wrote:
    >Uri Guttman <uristemsystems.com> wrote:
    >>>>>>> "h" == hudson <nonenobody.com> writes:
    >
    >> posting your whois info means nothing as the whois info is
    > ^^^^^^^^^^
    >> publicly available anyway.
    >
    >
    >I posted only an address. I did not say who's address it was.
    >
    >If Steve had not confirmed it in a followup, and reiterated
    >it in several subsequent followups, nobody would have known
    >that it was associated with him.
    >
    >I did not give away that it was his address, he did.
    Yes...I noticed the next day that you did not post my name...so I
    appreciate that.

    Actually, it is a dumb mailbox in LA and I am in NY, so I don't even
    know why I got so enraged...probably because I got 30 people flaming
    me here.

    If you want to buy a celluar phone, go to that address and I am sure
    they can help you ;-)

    hudson Guest

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