Professional Web Applications Themes

Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector? - Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration

Hello, I have XP on my Dell D800, and am installing Suse 9. I remember with Red Hat and Partition Magic, I did not put the boot loader in the MBR, as it could harm the Windows boot loader. But the default in Suse is to put the boot loader in the MBR. I want the option of choosing XP or Suse when I start the computer. Should I tell it to put the boot loader in the MBR? Also, where is the MBR? in the first part of the XP partition? Dell puts a 39meg partition for diagnostics at ...

  1. #1

    Default Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    Hello, I have XP on my Dell D800, and am installing Suse 9. I remember
    with Red Hat and Partition Magic, I did not put the boot loader in the
    MBR, as it could harm the Windows boot loader. But the default in Suse
    is to put the boot loader in the MBR.

    I want the option of choosing XP or Suse when I start the computer.

    Should I tell it to put the boot loader in the MBR?


    Also, where is the MBR? in the first part of the XP partition? Dell puts
    a 39meg partition for diagnostics at the beginning of the hard drive. Is
    it before this? I know it has to be on the beginning of the hard drive
    for the BIOS to find it???

    Thanks in advance for any help.
    Jim
    Jim Guest

  2. #2

    Default Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    Hello, I have XP on my Dell D800, and am installing Suse 9. I remember
    with Red Hat and Partition Magic, I did not put the boot loader in the
    MBR, as it could harm the Windows boot loader. But the default in Suse
    is to put the boot loader in the MBR.

    I want the option of choosing XP or Suse when I start the computer.

    Should I tell it to put the boot loader in the MBR?


    Also, where is the MBR? in the first part of the XP partition? Dell
    puts a 39meg partition for diagnostics at the beginning of the hard
    drive. Is it before this? I know it has to be on the beginning of the
    hard drive for the BIOS to find it???

    Thanks in advance for any help.
    Jim
    Jim Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    "Jim Kroger" <com> wrote in message
    news:zianet.com... 

    Jim,

    you can boot linux from NT loader (I usually do), it's easy, no catch, and
    your WinXP boot process is completely untouched...

    Here is the link:
    http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Linux+NT-Loader.html

    In short:
    1/install boot loader (LILO or GRUB) on you root partition,
    2/then run as root:
    # dd if=/dev/hda2 of=/bootsect.lnx bs=512 count=1
    3/copy the bootsect.lnx (you can call the file how you wish) to the floppy
    4/boot to windows, edit the boot.ini by adding the entry C:\bootsect.lnx =
    "Linux or whatever you wish", copy the file you created earlier from floppy
    to your C:\ disk rootdirectory

    (you can name the file how you want, you can place it where you want just
    then you have to correct the boot.ini to match the name/location)

    ...reboot, select the linux from NT loader menu...thats all about it. I just
    did it on SuSE 9.0 30 minutes ago for dual boot with NT4-Workstation... it
    works always and the best (for me anyway). I used LILO this time, but
    remember I used GRUB before as well with the identical result.

    good luck
    dave


    davidl Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:27:32 -0700
    Jim Kroger <com> wrote:
     

    Every partition has a boot record in it's first sector and the Master
    Boot Record is physically the first sector of the hard disk. This
    sector also contains the partition table.


    --
    Kevin Nathan (Montana, USA)
    Open standards. Open source. Open minds.
    The command line is the front line.

    Linux 2.4.10-4GB
    8:05pm up 31 days, 6:59, 5 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
    Kevin Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?


    "Jim Kroger" <edu> wrote in message
    news:google.com... 

    You can put the linux boot loader onto the MBR.
    It cant harm windows. The windows partition is bootable. its self
    contained.
    Windows does install a standard MBR, that boots the partition marked active.
    If you overwrite the standard MBR, you can get it back, by using lilo ,
    or by some 3rd party utility , or by using dos fdisk like this .. "fdisk.exe
    /mbr".



     

    You can.

    You can also put it on the linux partition, and mark the partition active,
    and keep a standard MBR ..


     

    No. its in the first sector of the drive, in the same sector as the
    partition table.

     

    it is before that.
     
    find it???
    That depends on the age of the system and the size of the harddrive.
    the CHS calls have been limited to 512 megabytes, and 8 gigiabytes.

    LBA32 replaces those limits with 127 gigabytes (because on IDE drivers its
    actually 28 bits),
    LBA48 erases that limit

    Leon.


    Leon. Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    Jim Kroger wrote:
     

    What have you used for Linux filesystem ? If you used XFS then the
    bootloader _must_ go in the MBR or you'll overwrite the superblock.
    Keith Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 23:07:55 GMT, "davidl" <com> wrote:
     

    snip
     


    Thanks very much. If I do this, what it it like when I turn on the
    computer? Is the first thing I see the GRUB screen that lets me choose
    linux or windows?

    This seems like a pretty convoluted way to go. It seems like YaST
    should make it easier.

    If I just tell YaST to put the boot loader in the boot sector (not
    MBR), what will happen when I restart? It will just boot to windows
    as usual?

    If I then make the boot partition for Suse active, I presume when I
    start it will go to GRUB first?

    Thanks for the help.
    Jim



    Jim Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    I've got SuSE 9.0 / XP Pro dual boot with no interference at install other
    than to choose the "install boot loader on hard drive" rather than the
    "make boot floppy" option. It uses GRUB, but that doesn't look too much
    different to LiLo (which is what I was using before this install), so I'd
    say go ahead & install in MBR
    Zeb Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 12:13:59 +0000, Keith Matthews
    <co.uk> wrote:
     
    >
    >What have you used for Linux filesystem ? If you used XFS then the
    >bootloader _must_ go in the MBR or you'll overwrite the superblock.[/ref]



    I used reiser.

    Jim



    Jim Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:32:57 +1100, "Leon."
    <noemail.com> wrote:


     

    Thanks very much Leon. When I put it in the MBR and make the boot
    partition active, what happens when I start? It goes to the boot
    loader (GRUB) on the suse boot sector and GRUB gives me the option to
    boot into either OS?

    If I restore the Windows MBR, what happens....the computer boots into
    XP normally but no longer goes to GRUB so I can't boot Suse any more?
    When I restore the MBR with fdisk, is the partition table left alone?

     

    Another poster who responded in this thread described a long procedure
    of modifying the MBR in order to make the dual boot system work when I
    put the boot loader in the Suse boot partition. You simply say "make
    the partition active." I'm having trouble understanding if it's that
    simple or if I need to go through the whole procedure described (and
    I've seen this also described elsewhere). In the Suse manual it
    instructs one to put the loader in the MBR so doesn't explain how to
    set up with the loader in the boot sector.


    Thanks again Leon.

    Jim



    Jim Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 09:30:54 -0700
    Jim Kroger <com> wrote:
     [/ref]
     

    No, you'll see the Windows NT boot loader and be allowed to pick Linux
    or Windows.

     

    Yast has nothing to do with it -- in order to boot a computer into
    *any* Operating System, you need a boot loader. You can use GRUB or
    LILO or NT BootLoader or BootMagic or System Commander or XOSL --
    and the list goes on and on. Every boot loader (except NT BootLoader)
    makes it very easy to add an OS, since that is their purpose in life.
    NT Boot Loader makes it a bit harder because it *knows* no other OS
    exists in the world other than Windows . . . :-)

     

    Yes, unless you modify NT Boot Loader to offer you a choice of OSes
    from which to boot.

     

    Yes. But then you need *another* program to allow you to select the
    active partition *prior* to rebooting. Definitely a hassle! Use either
    the link davidl sent you to make NT Boot Loader do the job, or let
    GRUB handle it, or use a third party boot loader (I used to use XOSL
    on all the computers I multi-booted, and still do at work).

     

    You're welcome, Jim. I hope this helps a little . . . :-)


    --
    Kevin Nathan (Montana, USA)
    Open standards. Open source. Open minds.
    The command line is the front line.

    Linux 2.4.10-4GB
    10:42am up 31 days, 21:36, 5 users, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.04
    Kevin Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    If you go for the write on mbr option, the first thing you see when you turn
    on will be a screen giving you the option of which OS you want to boot with
    Linux as the default which is selected automatically if you don't select
    within about five seconds.
    Zeb Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    Jim Kroger wrote:
     
    >[/ref]
     

    Just as with grub, in boot.ini you can set any of the selections as default.
    With NTLDR starting from MBR, you don't see the grub menu until it is
    selected from boot.ini. The main advantage is that you can repair either
    Windows or linux independently, without breaking the boot setup. While
    I've seen Windows versions which can be repaired without breaking a SuSE
    grub on MBR, it's certainly not the expected behavior. YaST supports just
    the grub on MBR option, it's the most straightforward for YaST to deal
    with.
    I'm not sure what you mean by your last question. With a running grub on
    MBR installation, you should be able to make a bootsect file for NTLDR and
    set it up on boot.ini, then restore the original Windows MBR, if you want
    to use that route to give dual boot control to Windows. If you simply
    restore Windows MBR, without taking the additional steps, you will need
    your SuSE CD to get back into linux.

    --
    Tim Prince
    Tim Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    Keith Matthews wrote:
     [/ref]
     

    I believe you should use an ext2 (preferably /boot) partition if you want to
    install grub outside MBR. When I tried to do it on reiserfs, it didn't
    work. I have a working installation with SuSE installed on reiserfs, and
    grub installed on /boot ext2. I don't know any way to install Windows
    initial boot loader except on MBR. You need some boot loader in MBR,
    whether it's grub, lilo, Windows MBR, BootMagic, or whatever. Is this what
    you are referring to?

    --
    Tim Prince
    Tim Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:17:20 GMT, Tim Prince
    <net> wrote:

     


    Thanks Tim (and everyone else),

    YaST gives one the option to install the boot loader in the MBR
    (default) or in the boot partition. Do you mean that YaST supports
    the boot loader in the MBR but not the boot sector of Suse in some
    other way? Maybe you're refering to the fact that if I put it in the
    boot sector (I mean in the Suse / partition), I have to do all that
    other stuff and YaST doesn't help with that...

    I presume your second paragraph is referring to a method to set up
    GRUB in the boot sector instead of MBR. I don't really understand
    it but will assume it's similar to the method David suggested (please
    let me know if I'm wrong).

    One last question: everyone keeps referring to NT, but I'm running XP.
    Do the instructions, such as Dave noted, need to be changed to
    work with XP?

    I am leaning towards putting GRUB in the boot sector instead of the
    MBR because it seems like it would be best to keep the WinXP boot
    loader and the Suse loader separate, so if I need to reinstall one of
    the operating systems it will be easier.

    Unfortunately I have to go buy a floppy drive for my computer before
    I can proceed :-).

    Thanks again,
    Jim

    Jim Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    Jim Kroger wrote:
     
    >
    >
    > Thanks Tim (and everyone else),
    >
    > YaST gives one the option to install the boot loader in the MBR
    > (default) or in the boot partition. Do you mean that YaST supports
    > the boot loader in the MBR but not the boot sector of Suse in some
    > other way? Maybe you're refering to the fact that if I put it in the
    > boot sector (I mean in the Suse / partition), I have to do all that
    > other stuff and YaST doesn't help with that...
    >
    > I presume your second paragraph is referring to a method to set up
    > GRUB in the boot sector instead of MBR. I don't really understand
    > it but will assume it's similar to the method David suggested (please
    > let me know if I'm wrong).
    >
    > One last question: everyone keeps referring to NT, but I'm running XP.
    > Do the instructions, such as Dave noted, need to be changed to
    > work with XP?
    >
    > I am leaning towards putting GRUB in the boot sector instead of the
    > MBR because it seems like it would be best to keep the WinXP boot
    > loader and the Suse loader separate, so if I need to reinstall one of
    > the operating systems it will be easier.
    >
    > Unfortunately I have to go buy a floppy drive for my computer before
    > I can proceed :-).
    >
    > Thanks again,
    > Jim[/ref]


    Jim,

    its starts to sound overly complicated - which really isn't. You can put
    GRUB(or LILO) either into:

    1/MBR; in which case Linux will take care about booting both operating
    systems

    or

    2/boot sector of your Linux boot partition; in which case you'll need other
    means to start Linux, such as suggested NTloader; or a CDROM, or a floppy ,
    or use other boot manager as someone above suggested already.

    3/floppy (I had errors with this option last time due to kernel update)

    (BTW, NT/XP terms can be considered identical in this particular case, no
    worry)

    I vote for NTloader, since if something happens to you boot system, you can
    always (or almost) access your Linux installation by booting from Linux
    installation CDROM; on the other hand, you can't boot installed XP OS from
    WinXP CDROM or floppy (at least I'm not aware of), and would have to fix
    booting from HDD first before accessing the XP installation.... generally I
    find NTloader easier to handle, but it's really subjective.

    You can get by without the floppy if you already either have FAT32 partition
    (or would create a small one for Linux-to-Windows easy file transfers;
    Linux can't write to NTFS but can to FAT/FAT32); in this case you would
    copy the exported boot sector file there. You could also email the file to
    yourself, send it over the LAN, use your imagination) In case your SUSE
    install needs to reboot in order to finish the install, you can boot from
    the installation CDROM to complete the install)...

    If you can look into the chapter 4 in SUSE 9.0 Pro hardcopy AdminGuide (page
    72 an up), everything is pretty good explained, including recovery/repairs
    of MBR and related tasks.

    Hope it gets more clear; pls someone correct me if any above is too wrong or
    confusing....

    Good luck again.
    Dave


    davidl Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    Jim Kroger wrote:
     
    >
    >
    > Thanks Tim (and everyone else),
    >
    > YaST gives one the option to install the boot loader in the MBR
    > (default) or in the boot partition. Do you mean that YaST supports
    > the boot loader in the MBR but not the boot sector of Suse in some
    > other way? Maybe you're refering to the fact that if I put it in the
    > boot sector (I mean in the Suse / partition), I have to do all that
    > other stuff and YaST doesn't help with that...[/ref]
    I've looked for options to install recent versions of SuSE without
    over-writing MBR, and I've not found them as convenient as it was in SuSE
    7.3 for i586. Maybe I'm missing something. As referred to above, you can
    always restore MBR to Windows after linux is running, should you choose to
    do so, or reach the inevitable point of needing to repair Windows. 

    Yes, most of the How-To references refer to NT. The only difference in XP
    is the additional option in XP to edit boot.ini without going through any
    of the attributes and permissions stuff, but you can still edit it directly
    with your linux text editor. In fact, you can upgrade from NT to 2K to XP
    without breaking your linux boot.ini setup. 
    You shouldn't need a floppy drive. XP doesn't support "legacy" floppies on
    many systems where the BIOS does, including mine. It's easier anyway if
    you use a FAT32 partition (could be your Windows C: partition) for sharing
    files between linux and Windows. With red hat, you need a boot floppy to
    get back into linux, but we're talking about SuSE. If you find the
    How-To's for red hat too confusing, use those for SuSE.


    --
    Tim Prince
    Tim Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Dual XP/Suse: grub iin MBR or Suse boot sector?

    Thanks very much for the help, everyone. I did read the relevant
    sections in the user and administrator guides, but didn't understand
    them. Thanks to your help I think I've got it, and have attempted to
    install GRUB in the root partition.

    Unfortunately I've run into problems....so I can't say if anything works
    yet. I am posting about the current problems in a separate thread. I'm
    sure it will work out eventually. Thanks very much again for all of your
    great help.


    Jim



    In article <zianet.com>,
    Jim Kroger <com> wrote:
     
    Jim Guest

Similar Threads

  1. install SuSE under Boot Manager?
    By Felix in forum Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: December 25th, 08:10 AM
  2. boot loader (grub/suse) question...
    By Mike in forum Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: December 22nd, 04:36 PM
  3. Installing Suse 8.2 Profesional hangs after this line >>> SuSe Linux Installation ....<<<
    By Nenad Ukropina in forum Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: September 15th, 07:11 AM
  4. Boot - Suse 8.1 Professional
    By Willi Seibel in forum Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 30th, 02:32 PM
  5. GRUB won't boot Suse 8.2 (fresh install)
    By Peter T. Breuer in forum Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: August 3rd, 08:16 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139