DVD RECORDERS

[Andrew Turek]

I guess the people who read this forum will be able to help with this one.

Is there any sense of which format is going to win in the DVD recorder war? I am thinking of buying one and having many years ago bought a Betamax VCR I don't want to get it wrong again. It is probably the US market which will decide which wins so any hints from there will be particularly helpful.

Thanks, all.

Andrew

[Beth Haney]

I'm going to watch this discussion Andrew! What I've read so far indicates the DVD+ will probably come out on top, largely because it's the format supported by the Win operating systems. I'm not quite ready to buy yet, but right now I'm leaning toward a burner that will write either + or - format. My understanding is that one (but I can't remember which without my cheat sheet) produces better quality data DVDs and the other produces better video DVDs.

Now let's see what people have to say who might actually know something about this subject. :)

[Barbara Brundage]

Hi, Beth. Don't know which machine you're planning to use it with, but remember that macs only do DVD-R. If mac compatibility is an issue, might want to look at this:

<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24451>

[Joe Henry1000]

Today, I just ordered a Pioneer DVR-105 "Superdrive" to put in my Mac. It cost $185 and supports DVD-R & DVD-RW. For me it didn't matter what format it supports because my main concern was that it worked with iDVD. Having said that, there are manufactuer's out there that are making DVD drives that support both. I suspect that most drives and player's will be supporting both in the not too distant future, but that's just my hunch.

Andrew, I don't think you'll run into the same problem as you had with Betamax. Check out OWC's <http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=457&Title=DVD&Template=> DVD drive offerings and you'll see that with the exception of the drive I bought, they all support both +/-. Besides, if CD drive prices are any indication even if you did buy a drive that turned out to be obsolete, you'll probably be able to pick up your next one at a fraction of the price you pay today. Just my opinion of course.

Joe

[Beth Haney]

Yes, I know Macs still have that limitation, which is another reason why I haven't bought myself a DVD burner yet. That and the fact I've decided I'm not even going to try burning with the computer I have now - generating one DVD could become a new career. I've been looking at them for my son, though, because he's the one who has the video camera. Prices don't seem to be coming down because they keep expanding the capabilities of the burners, either in terms of versatility or speed. If I was going to buy one right now, I think I'd go with one that would do both + and -.

[Mike O'Sullivan]

Wait a bit until a universal machine is marketed, capable of playing all
formats. It won't be long.

"Andrew Turek" <andrew@turek.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2ccd3e63.-1@webx.la2eafNXanI...

> I guess the people who read this forum will be able to help with this one.
>
> Is there any sense of which format is going to win in the DVD recorder

war? I am thinking of buying one and having many years ago bought a Betamax
VCR I don't want to get it wrong again. It is probably the US market which
will decide which wins so any hints from there will be particularly helpful.

>
> Thanks, all.
>
> Andrew

[Peter Duniho]

"Beth Haney" <member@adobeforums.com> wrote in message
news:2ccd3e63.3@webx.la2eafNXanI...

> [...] If I was going to buy one right now, I think I'd go with one that

would do both + and -.

Good choice. :)

Joe's message pretty much sums it up. It's unclear that there ever WILL be
a "winning" format, the way there was in the VHS/Betamax race. With the
video tapes, the two formats were completely incompatible. But with DVD,
you now have DVD drives and players that will read either format. Because
the form factor is identical between the two, there's no reason for
consumers to choose.

Of course, it may well happen. But going forward, it's going to be a
non-issue, since either format is going to work equally well on pretty much
any new DVD hardware. So, like Joe says...get a drive that does both. Most
of the time, the choice of what format to use will be based on what media
you are able to get for the least money. Occasionally, you'll want to be
compatible on a specific drive/player and then you'll have the flexibility
to use whichever format works on that drive or player.

By the way, Andrew...I hope you didn't consider your puchase of the Betamax
VCR a complete loss. At least you got to enjoy superior video reproduction
on the shows you taped while you had it. :)

Pete

[Andrew Turek]

I regard Betamax/VHS as I do WordPerfect/Word; the better hyped but technically poorer format won. What concerns me is that if a few years down the line DVD recorders are as common as VCR's are now (and you can get a good VCR for $70-equivalent here in England, I expect less in the USA) I don't want to find that I can't lend and borrow discs freely with other owners because I chose wrong. So I guess I will wait and see!

Andrew.

[Peter Duniho]

"Andrew Turek" <andrew@turek.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2ccd3e63.5@webx.la2eafNXanI...

> I regard Betamax/VHS as I do WordPerfect/Word;
> the better hyped but technically poorer format won.

First of all, poor analogy. Beta vs VHS has to do with a basic signal
reproduction technology, trivial to measure the performance of and evaluate
the relative merits. WordPerfect vs Word has as much to do with religion
(like Mac vs Windows) as it does with any fundamental technical differences.

> What concerns me is that if a few years down the line
> DVD recorders are as common as VCR's are now (and
> you can get a good VCR for $70-equivalent here in England,
> I expect less in the USA) I don't want to find that I can't lend
> and borrow discs freely with other owners because I chose
> wrong. So I guess I will wait and see!

Secondly, you are missing the point, one that I made in my previous message
on this topic. That is, consumers don't have to choose. Almost no one is
making a DVD player today that can't read both formats, and tomorrow no one
will be doing so. You won't find that you can't lend and borrow discs
freely, because all players will support all formats. The same thing is
true for DVD drives in computers. Even a DVD drive that can't burn +R still
is likely to be able to read it.

Wait and see if you like. It's already happening, just the way I'm saying
it is.

Pete

[Andrew Turek]

You may be right, Pete, but here there are machines on the market which don't support both. If in the end all machines do, that's fine!

As for Word/WP, you're dead right, it is religion. And I am a WordPerfectionist!

[Joe Henry1000]

Update on Joe's new DVD burner.

Don't ask me why, but I decided to spend an extra $50 to get the new Pioneer DVR-106 which is compatible with and can burn CD's, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R and DVD+RW. Literally 4 minutes (yes I timed myself) after I got the thing, I had it installed, up and running and burning CD's, DVD-R's and DVD-RW's (with Toast as iDVD won't write to a RW disk). Then I got a little curious about the + capabilities of my DVD burner so headed over to Apple and searched the discussion boards. I figured someone must have figured out a work around to the whole +R/Mac thing and I was right. I found a link to a plug-in over at XLR8YourMac which, after I installed it, enabled me to burn DVD+R as well as the +RW disks. Cool! Now if I can only figure out why I want to burn to +R over -R I'll be all set. ;-)

Oh baby, 4.7 gigs of disk! Gives me goosebumps just thinking about all the stuff I can burn to DVD. ;-)

Joe

[L Miranda]

There are a number of reasons you'd want to burn +R over -R:

1. DVD-R is well known to have compatibility problems when written at speeds greater than 1x (check out Apple's DVD Studio Pro forums)

2. Some DVD+R drives have a "compatibility bit setting" that fool older players into thinking they're replicated DVD-ROM (DVD-Video) discs instead of recordable (DVD-R, DVD+R) discs. This leads to much higher compatibility.

3. At least as of last year, DVD+R/RW drives required a much shorter erasing/formatting and finalization time (although newer DVD-R/RW drives might have fixed this). A short video that burns in 5 minutes on my DVD+R drive takes over 15 minutes on my SuperDrive (Pioneer A04 DVD-R/RW).

4. New DVD+R drives just announced burn at 8x, and 4x DVD+RW is coming soon.

[Andrew Turek]

Are we at cross-purposes here? The new electric toy I was talking about is the thing whch replaces a VCR and records TV programmes (as we spell it here!) onto DVD's. Can I please submit my original question with that clarification?

Andrew

[Paul L UK]

Andrew

Sony have a top of the range that does all formats. Also this site does very reasonable prices. Looks like I'm going to save about £500 on the set-up I want as against the high street.

<http://www.indigo-av.co.uk/pages/product.asp?prod_id=338>

Paul

[Andrew Turek]

Thanks, Paul. I am very tempted!

Andrew.

[Beth Haney]

Andrew, I, for one, didn't realize you were talking about a replacement for a VCR, so I apologize for getting this thread off on the wrong track. I thought you were talking about a DVD burner for your computer. Duh. I'm sorry. I haven't moved up far enough in the "technology chain" to think about replacing the VCR yet! I've got one I'm still trying to figure out how to set the time on. :) I'll go away now.

[L Miranda]

Well, Beth, your answers were fine. No need to slink away with your tail between your legs! :-)

It's the same basic issues. The set-top DVD-recorder (VCR replacements) use the same drives internally as the PC/Mac drives.

So the issues are all the same: recording speed, formatting/finalization speed, compatibility bit settings (on the Philips DVD+R/RW set top recorder you can set the compatibility bit--no PC needed).

[L Miranda]

Here's how to set the compatibility bit on a set-top video recorder:

<http://dvdplusrw.org/resources/bitsettings_video.html>

That link also has a link to a page with more general issues with bit setting.

[Stanley]

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 05:43:29 -0700, "Andrew Turek" <andrew@turek.co.uk>
wrote:

>Are we at cross-purposes here? The new electric toy I was talking about is the thing whch replaces a VCR and records TV programmes (as we spell it here!) onto DVD's. Can I please submit my original question with that clarification?

For the "what it's worth department", I just purchased a Panasonic
DMR-E50 video recorder. The unit lets me record TV programs. If you
use the proper disc (DVD ROM) you can start to record a program, and
half way through the recording, start viewing the first part.

After using a VCR, this taks a bit of getting used to. It can record
up to 6 hours. Picture quality is excellent....as it should be with
DVD.

It does NOT connect to a telephone line. There are unitis available
here in the USA (and Europe??) that down load program schedules, and
allow you to search for programs. Nice. But I hate to pay a monthly
fee

Info on the unit can be found at
[url]http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&modelNo= DMR-E50S[/url]

I would assume that a model with European Broadcast standards would be
available for you.

I'm still learning how to use all the features. But if you have any
questions, feel free to ask.

[Beth Haney]

Thank you for your kind words, Lou. :)