Earthlink/Linksys NNTP problem

[Andy Walton]

Earthlink recently moved all of its users from their old servers -- in
my case, news.mindspring.com -- to news.xxxxx.earthlink.net, where
xxxxx is "east" or "west" depending on where one resides relative to
the Mississippi River.

When the changeover happened, I managed to post once, then posts began
timing out. Downloading and reding messages, even downloading binaries,
went just fine. I tried a few different clients (Thoth, MT-Newswatcher,
even Outlook Express [spit!]) and even signed on with Newsranger so I
could try another server, and had the same results in every case. From
this I concluded that the problem was at my end, and the router seemed
a likely culprit.

I plugged my desktop machine straight into the DSL router, and the
problem disappeared. So it appears to me that (a) my router is blocking
ports that the old Mindspring server didn't need, but Earthlink and
Newsranger both do; or (b) that the news client somehow embeds the IP
address of the sending computer (though I don't see that in any
headers, just NNTP-posting-host), and when that doesn't match what the
NNTP server sees, the messages bounce (likely as an anti-spam measure).

Earthlink tech support has been singularly unhelpful, in part because I
can't seem to get past the tier-1-support-script-readers in Bangalore.
When Mindspring was a small operation, I could generally get through to
someone who would read a message like the above, figure out that I'd
already ruled out large chunks of the decision tree, and that I could
understand an answer that didn't map out the solution click by click.
Now it's a big operation, and you know the drill.

I'm not asking anyone to do heavy homework this for me, but if anyone
happens to know, is port forwarding a likely fix? If so, which ports?
If no one knows the ports off hand, is there a good place to look that
up, or a good means to sniff out what ports the news reader or news
server is trying and failing to use?

I'm running a Linksys BEFW1154v.2 wireless router hooked up (though not
at the moment) to a ZyXel somethingorother DSL modem. The symptoms are
identical on a G4 867, wired, and a dual-USB iBook, wireless. Those
machines are all common enough, and Earthlink is a popular enough ISP,
that it's difficult to imagine I'm the only person who's run into this.

--
Make definite assertions. Avoid tame, colorless, hesitating,
non-committal language. -- William Strunk Jr., "Elements of Style"
--------------------------------------------------
Andy Walton * [url]http://atticus.home.mindspring.com/[/url]

[Bill Rowe]

In article <240920030116542841%atticus@mindspring.com>,
Andy Walton <atticus@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Earthlink recently moved all of its users from their old servers -- in
> my case, news.mindspring.com -- to news.xxxxx.earthlink.net, where
> xxxxx is "east" or "west" depending on where one resides relative to
> the Mississippi River.

<snip>

> I'm running a Linksys BEFW1154v.2 wireless router hooked up (though not
> at the moment) to a ZyXel somethingorother DSL modem. The symptoms are
> identical on a G4 867, wired, and a dual-USB iBook, wireless. Those
> machines are all common enough, and Earthlink is a popular enough ISP,
> that it's difficult to imagine I'm the only person who's run into this.

FWIW, I'm running a Linsys BEFW11S4 v.2 wireless router (I assume the
"5" in your number should have been a "S") and have not had a similar
experience. In fact, responsiveness of the newsgroups increased markedly
when I switched over to news.west.earthlink.net.

In my case, the DSL modem is a Fujitsu Speedport and I am typing this on
a G4 PowerBook with a wireless link to the Linksys router.

[Julian Vrieslander]

In article <240920030116542841%atticus@mindspring.com>,
Andy Walton <atticus@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Earthlink recently moved all of its users from their old servers -- in
> my case, news.mindspring.com -- to news.xxxxx.earthlink.net, where
> xxxxx is "east" or "west" depending on where one resides relative to
> the Mississippi River.
>
> When the changeover happened, I managed to post once, then posts began
> timing out. Downloading and reding messages, even downloading binaries,
> went just fine. I tried a few different clients (Thoth, MT-Newswatcher,
> even Outlook Express [spit!]) and even signed on with Newsranger so I
> could try another server, and had the same results in every case. From
> this I concluded that the problem was at my end, and the router seemed
> a likely culprit.

Are you completely and consistently unable to post messages, or is this
something that is intermittent?

I am also on Earthlink DSL. Occasionally, my attempts to post will
hang, but if I cancel and try again they usually go through. I see this
at home, connecting to Earthlink's news server though a router (Apple
AirPort Extreme), and also on the LAN at work when connecting to my
employer's news server. There have also been a few days when my posting
attempts would fail for hours at a time. But I assume that this was due
to upstream network problems, or config issues at Earthlink, since
normal operation was eventually restored without any other action on my
end.

If the problem persists and you cannot get any answers from the tech
support phone droids, you can try

(a) Emailing to [email]support@earthlink.net[/email], [email]support@mindspring.com[/email], or their
web-based reporting system

(b) Posting a query to one of the earthlink-local newsgroups. There is
at least one dedicated to the news system, but I don't remember its name
(I'm at work now).

(c) Calling the Earthlink sales or customer service desks and demanding
to speak to someone in support at a high enough level to understand your
problem. Let them know that your contact with the normal support chain
was unhelpful. Doing an end run around the normal support chain is not
something you should do frequently, but the (explicit or implied) threat
of terminating your service will usually get their attention.

--
Julian Vrieslander

[Andy Walton]

In article
<julianvREMOVE_THIS_PART-E099AF.11485625092003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>,
Julian Vrieslander <julianvREMOVE_THIS_PART@mindspring.com> wrote:

> In article <240920030116542841%atticus@mindspring.com>,
> Andy Walton <atticus@mindspring.com> wrote:
>

> > Earthlink recently moved all of its users from their old servers -- in
> > my case, news.mindspring.com -- to news.xxxxx.earthlink.net, where
> > xxxxx is "east" or "west" depending on where one resides relative to
> > the Mississippi River.
> >
> > When the changeover happened, I managed to post once, then posts began
> > timing out. Downloading and reding messages, even downloading binaries,
> > went just fine. I tried a few different clients (Thoth, MT-Newswatcher,
> > even Outlook Express [spit!]) and even signed on with Newsranger so I
> > could try another server, and had the same results in every case. From
> > this I concluded that the problem was at my end, and the router seemed
> > a likely culprit.

>
> Are you completely and consistently unable to post messages, or is this
> something that is intermittent?

Completely and consistently. 0Kb transmitted at 0K/sec. until it times
out. I thought the problem was fixed, because I reset the router to its
factory defaults and managed to post, but it was the old
one-post-then-fail routine.

I'm muddling through by switching cables and doing Usenet straight to
the modem. That is obviously less than ideal, but it's a few seconds'
annoyance, so it's made fixing the problem less urgent.

> I am also on Earthlink DSL. Occasionally, my attempts to post will
> hang, but if I cancel and try again they usually go through.

I'm familiar with that. I saw that on the old mindspring server, and
occasionally see it when I have the G4 hooked straight to the modem.
This isn't that.

I'm beginning to believe that it might be some kind of
hardware/firmware glitch in the router, and if I can get my hands on a
loaner 802.11b router for testing, I'll see if it's specific to this
unit. The fact that no one else has this problem, even folks with a
nearly identical software/hardware configuration, leads me to believe
that there may be a unit-specific glitch at my end.

> If the problem persists and you cannot get any answers from the tech
> support phone droids, you can try
>
> (a) Emailing to [email]support@earthlink.net[/email], [email]support@mindspring.com[/email], or their
> web-based reporting system

Tried that. The tier-one tech support people were more helpful than
tier-one phone support, but not by much. I got a lot of suggestions for
how to delete and rebuild Microsoft Entourage settings, when I'd only
ever used Entourage as a troubleshooting method. I dutifully tried
their suggestions, then replied "nope. Didn't work," as I knew it
wouldn't. After a few iterations of that, they stopped responding.

Bottom line, I can't fault Earthlink support too much. I'm running a
client they don't support on hardware they don't support. They could,
relatively legitimately, tell me to just disconnect the router and
leave it disconnected. They've made an inadequate attempt at helping me
when my user agreement didn't obligate them to make any attempt at all.

> (b) Posting a query to one of the earthlink-local newsgroups. There

is

> at least one dedicated to the news system, but I don't remember its name
> (I'm at work now).

That's a good suggestion. I'll look for the group.

> (c) Calling the Earthlink sales or customer service desks and demanding
> to speak to someone in support at a high enough level to understand your
> problem. Let them know that your contact with the normal support chain
> was unhelpful. Doing an end run around the normal support chain is not
> something you should do frequently, but the (explicit or implied) threat
> of terminating your service will usually get their attention.

I haven't felt that confrontational yet, and before I get that
hard-line, I need to have my ducks in a tight, straight row. I need to
be certain that if the tech says "have you tried X?" I can either
answer "yes" or "no, but I tried Y, which should eliminate X as the
source of the problem." If I'm going to aggressively escalate the
problem on the grounds that I've already tried the easy stuff, I need
to make sure that I've already tried all the easy stuff.

Another complication is that I work second shift, and I'm rarely on
line, awake and available when the smartest and most senior support
gurus are around. There's no point in demanding to speak to a more
senior guru at one in the morning. He's at home asleep; I can't wake
him to handle my problem, and wouldn't if I could.

That's why I'm asking in Usenet; if someone has my exact same problem
and a fix for it, that's fantastic. If not, the answers will at least
narrow the question.

--
"The problem with the world is that everyone is
a few drinks behind." -- Humphrey Bogart
--------------------------------------------------
Andy Walton * [url]http://atticus.home.mindspring.com/[/url]

[Julian Vrieslander]

In article <051020030137490450%atticus@mindspring.com>,
Andy Walton <atticus@mindspring.com> wrote:

> In article
> <julianvREMOVE_THIS_PART-E099AF.11485625092003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>,
> Julian Vrieslander <julianvREMOVE_THIS_PART@mindspring.com> wrote:
>

> > In article <240920030116542841%atticus@mindspring.com>,
> > Andy Walton <atticus@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >

> > > Earthlink recently moved all of its users from their old servers -- in
> > > my case, news.mindspring.com -- to news.xxxxx.earthlink.net, where
> > > xxxxx is "east" or "west" depending on where one resides relative to
> > > the Mississippi River.
> > >
> > > When the changeover happened, I managed to post once, then posts began
> > > timing out. Downloading and reding messages, even downloading binaries,
> > > went just fine. I tried a few different clients (Thoth, MT-Newswatcher,
> > > even Outlook Express [spit!]) and even signed on with Newsranger so I
> > > could try another server, and had the same results in every case. From
> > > this I concluded that the problem was at my end, and the router seemed
> > > a likely culprit.

> I'm beginning to believe that it might be some kind of
> hardware/firmware glitch in the router, and if I can get my hands on a
> loaner 802.11b router for testing, I'll see if it's specific to this
> unit. The fact that no one else has this problem, even folks with a
> nearly identical software/hardware configuration, leads me to believe
> that there may be a unit-specific glitch at my end.

I just thought of another possibility. I've seen cases where
client/server communication glitches were caused by mismatched MTU
sizes. Don't ask me for a technical explanation - I'm not very
knowledgeable in TCP/IP stuff. I think MTU is geektalk for Message
Transfer Unit, and it has something to do with packet sizes. Over the
last few years, I have done several troubleshooting extravaganzas with
Mindspring and Earthlink which eventually led to MTU misconfigurations
as a contributor or source of the problem. In one case, I eventually
suspected that my gateway server (upstream of my DSL modem) was
misconfigured. Mindspring denied it at first, but after I suggested
this to a techie as a possibility, the problem disappeared in a day or
two.

Maybe you can ask the support folks to check into this on their side,
and you can also search the Apple Knowledge Base, which has several tech
notes on MTU issues for Apple products:

<http://search.info.apple.com/>

> Another complication is that I work second shift, and I'm rarely on
> line, awake and available when the smartest and most senior support
> gurus are around. There's no point in demanding to speak to a more
> senior guru at one in the morning. He's at home asleep; I can't wake
> him to handle my problem, and wouldn't if I could.

In the good old Mindspring days, I often found that I got better service
if I called tech support late at night. The queues were shorter, and
the techies had more time to spend with me.

--
Julian Vrieslander