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Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8 - Mac Applications & Software

Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info? What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files? (Free ones preferred)...

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  1. #1

    Default Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info?

    What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    (Free ones preferred)

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    Wesley Groleau Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    In article <ph-cndndjLFbdpCiXTWJhAgbronline.com>,
    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    > What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    > (Free ones preferred)
    Hydra.
    [url]http://hydra.globalse.org[/url]
    Steven Fisher Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> writes:
    > Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info?
    I'm not aware of even a bad one. If you're interested, you might look at
    [url]http://groups./group/unicode/[/url]
    >
    > What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    > (Free ones preferred)
    See
    [url]http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/utilities_editors_macosx.html[/url]
    [url]http://www.hekkelman.com/pepper.html[/url]
    [url]http://www.jedit.org/[/url]
    [url]http://free.abracode.com/sue/[/url]
    [url]http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/[/url]

    Bare Bones has Text Wrangler, which is $50 if I recall; a demo is available
    at
    [url]http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/index.shtml[/url]
    If Text Wrangler is as good as the discontinued BBEdit lite, it's worth the
    price.

    Good luck.
    --
    Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
    Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip
    [url]http://www.PhilipStripling.com/[/url] | my domain is read daily.
    Phil Stripling Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Wesley Groleau wrote:
    > Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info?
    > What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    > (Free ones preferred)
    Never mind. Unless you got hot news not on Alan Woods' site.

    Thanks Matt & Steven for yours.

    I should have been a little more specific--editors
    to edit UTF-8 easily. Looks like jEdit might do, though
    it can't handle the UniCode Hex keyboard. I'm checking on Hydra.

    Not too impressed with TextEdit for this particular purpose.

    REALLY not impressed with Apple for hanging on to MacRoman.

    I understand about backward compatibility, but sheesh! since
    when did backward compatibility mean rejecting progress?

    Wesley Groleau Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Phil Stripling wrote:
    > If Text Wrangler is as good as the discontinued BBEdit lite, it's worth the
    > price.
    According to them, it's better. I was
    quite pleased with BBEdit Lite, but it
    did NOT seem to handle UTF-8. I had to
    redownload the last version, but it
    refuses to run (another thread).

    In my current economic state, however, I'd
    rather endure MacRoman than shell out $50 :-)

    Wesley Groleau Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    In article <ph-cndndjLFbdpCiXTWJhAgbronline.com>,
    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    >Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info?
    What do you want to know ?
    >What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    All of them except the brain-damaged ones, since UTF-8 is supported
    by the operating system itself. TextEdit supports them and comes
    free with the OS.


    Simon Slavin Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    In article <BB3648F09668353910.0.1.3>,
    [email]slavinshearsay.demon.co.uk[/email]localhost (Simon Slavin) wrote:
    > In article <ph-cndndjLFbdpCiXTWJhAgbronline.com>,
    > Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    >
    > >Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info?
    >
    > What do you want to know ?
    >
    > >What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    >
    > All of them except the brain-damaged ones, since UTF-8 is supported
    > by the operating system itself. TextEdit supports them and comes
    > free with the OS.
    >
    >
    It's worth mentioning that Word.X is one of the brain-damaged ones.

    --
    AF
    "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
    --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball
    Alice Faber Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    >>Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info?
    > What do you want to know ?
    >>What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    > All of them except the brain-damaged ones, since UTF-8 is supported
    > by the operating system itself. TextEdit supports them and comes
    > free with the OS.
    TextEdit says it will only save in RTF.

    I want to edit HTML in a way that I can see
    the text instead of those stupid numeric
    escape sequences. It's mostly English, but
    there will be a little bit of French, Spanish,
    Polish, and possibly German.

    I was happy with BBEdit, but the version I had
    did NOT cooperate with getting away from that dinosaur
    MacRoman. And of course, if you upload a page
    with MacRoman codes for ¿Qué hizo, señor? most browsers
    will not show that. (Mozilla and Mail seem to convert OK
    when posting, however.)

    Wesley Groleau Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote on Sat 12 Jul 2003
    09:29:17p:
    >>>Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info?
    >> What do you want to know ?
    >>>What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    >> All of them except the brain-damaged ones, since UTF-8 is supported
    >> by the operating system itself. TextEdit supports them and comes
    >> free with the OS.
    >
    > TextEdit says it will only save in RTF.
    >
    > I want to edit HTML in a way that I can see
    > the text instead of those stupid numeric
    > escape sequences. It's mostly English, but
    > there will be a little bit of French, Spanish,
    > Polish, and possibly German.
    Change the TextEdit preferences to save as text and to not interpret
    HTML commands (sic).

    A handy app for inserting Unicode characters is at
    <http://www.earthlingsoft.net/UnicodeChecker/index.html>

    hn
    WeSaySo Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Wesley Groleau wrote:
    > TextEdit says it will only save in RTF.
    Then don't use rich text.

    Steven Fisher Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    In article <D5ednRFoJJOHfY2iXTWJjggbronline.com>,
    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    > I was happy with BBEdit, but the version I had
    > did NOT cooperate with getting away from that dinosaur
    > MacRoman.
    That's a pretty vague assertion, so here's an equally vague piece of
    advice: try BBEdit 7.0.3.

    R.
    --
    Rich Siegel <siegelspamcop.net>
    Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

    Someday I'll look back on all this and laugh... until they sedate me.
    Rich Siegel Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    In article <D5ednRFoJJOHfY2iXTWJjggbronline.com>,
    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    > >>Is there a good newsgroup for Unicode or UTF-8 info?
    > > What do you want to know ?
    > >>What OS-X editors handle UTF-8 encoded files?
    > > All of them except the brain-damaged ones, since UTF-8 is supported
    > > by the operating system itself. TextEdit supports them and comes
    > > free with the OS.
    >
    > TextEdit says it will only save in RTF.
    Under the Format menu, select Make Plain Text.

    Now when you save, you'll be saving a pure text doent.

    --
    AF
    "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
    --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball
    Alice Faber Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    WeSaySo wrote:
    > Change the TextEdit preferences to save as text and to not interpret
    > HTML commands (sic).
    How embarrassing! Whenever I use a new program,
    I always go through the preferences first. (A habit
    learned from the STUPID defaults Microsoft always uses.)
    But I just opened the TextEdit pref-pane and knew
    I had never seen it before.
    > A handy app for inserting Unicode characters is at
    > <http://www.earthlingsoft.net/UnicodeChecker/index.html>
    Got this. Having trouble with it at the moment.

    Wesley Groleau Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    > I was happy with BBEdit, but the version I had
    > did NOT cooperate with getting away from that dinosaur
    > MacRoman.
    The current version of BBEdit does both utf-8 and utf-16, along with a
    whole host of other encodings. It doesn't seem to like Unicode paragraph
    breaks, but that's a minor gripe since no one really uses them anyway.
    (Of course, maybe people would use them if software supported them...)

    --
    Jeremy | [email]jeremyexit109.com[/email]
    Jeremy Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Jeremy wrote:
    > The current version of BBEdit does both utf-8 and utf-16, along with a
    TextEdit works just fine, now that I corrected
    my failure to set the preferences accordingly.

    Incidentally, I whipped up a UTF-8 web page with
    some hiragana, some katakana, one Kanji,
    several ISOLatin1 characters with diacritics,
    a couple that occur in Polish and and are not
    in ISOLatin1, and a few special-purpose glyphs.

    Called up the page on Mac with Mozilla, Firebird,
    Camino, Opera 6, Omniweb, and IE 5.2.3. ALL the glyphs
    looked as they should.

    Called it up on Win98 with IE 5.5, Firebird, and
    Opera 7 and all three were unable to render
    the Japanese glyphs and the KCal glyph.

    The preferred font (by CSS) was Verdana, available
    on both sides.

    Wesley Groleau Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    > Called it up on Win98 with IE 5.5, Firebird, and
    > Opera 7 and all three were unable to render
    > the Japanese glyphs and the KCal glyph.
    > The preferred font (by CSS) was Verdana, available
    > on both sides.
    Verdana does not cover Arabic, Hebrew, CJK. You should *never* specify
    a typeface for non-Roman scripts. It does more harm than good.
    <http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/cht/browsers-fonts.html#dont>

    --
    [url]http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/plonk.txt[/url]
    Andreas Prilop Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Wesley Groleau wrote:
    > Andreas Prilop wrote:
    >
    > P.P.S. Looks like an interesting article--thanks.
    I don't know what he's put in there that makes it
    print so SLOW though! And it leaves half of each
    page blank.....

    Wesley Groleau Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    In article <cZOdnbDOVIlKoY6iU-KYvwgbronline.com>,
    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    > Andreas Prilop wrote:
    > > Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Called it up on Win98 with IE 5.5, Firebird, and
    > >>Opera 7 and all three were unable to render
    > >>the Japanese glyphs and the KCal glyph.
    > >>The preferred font (by CSS) was Verdana, available
    > >>on both sides.
    But if verdana doesn't contain japanese characters, the fact that you've
    got it installed won't be very helpful ;) Make sure you have a font
    installed (and configured to be used by your browsers) that contains the
    necessary characters.

    Also, if you're not doing it already, make sure to serve the HTML as
    utf-8 (preferably through a real Content-Type header). Otherwise
    browsers will fall back to whatever their default text encoding happens
    to be.
    > > Verdana does not cover Arabic, Hebrew, CJK. You should *never* specify
    > > a typeface for non-Roman scripts. It does more harm than good.
    >
    > I just used the CSS file already made for my web site.
    > And it's not just Verdana: It calls for
    > Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Lucida Granda, sans-serif
    > (maybe others and I forget the order)
    Right. So take that out ;)

    Btw, Opera allows you to quickly switch CSS on/off. That should help
    uncover if problems stem from your CSS of from elsewhere.

    --
    Free and shareware at <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/software/>
    Sander Tekelenburg Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Sander Tekelenburg wrote:
    > But if verdana doesn't contain japanese characters, the fact that you've
    > got it installed won't be very helpful ;) Make sure you have a font
    > installed (and configured to be used by your browsers) that contains the
    > necessary characters.
    The point was that the Mac browsers--ALL of them--rendered
    the Japanese characters in a manner consistent with the rest
    of the page.
    > Also, if you're not doing it already, make sure to serve the HTML as
    > utf-8 (preferably through a real Content-Type header). Otherwise
    Yes. If I had left ISO Latin 1 in the header, the non-English
    glyphs would have been who-knows-what.
    >>I just used the CSS file already made for my web site.
    >>And it's not just Verdana: It calls for
    >>Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Lucida Granda, sans-serif
    >>(maybe others and I forget the order)
    >
    > Right. So take that out ;)
    Why? It works perfectly for the characters I need,
    and for all Mac browsers, it also works with those
    I don't need.

    Wesley Groleau Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Editors. browsers, unicode, and UTF-8

    Wesley Groleau <wesgroleaudespammed.com> wrote on Mon 14 Jul 2003
    12:30:15p:
    > Called up the page on Mac with Mozilla, Firebird,
    > Camino, Opera 6, Omniweb, and IE 5.2.3. ALL the glyphs
    > looked as they should.
    >
    > Called it up on Win98 with IE 5.5, Firebird, and
    > Opera 7 and all three were unable to render
    > the Japanese glyphs and the KCal glyph.
    OS X is unicode based internally and comes with several unicode fonts.
    Win98 is not unicode based and does not come with Unicode fonts by
    default, but if you give it a Unicode font (like Arial MS Unicode), it
    will happily display higher unicode glyphs. I had this working on
    Win95. WinXP I think does come with some unicode fonts (though I might
    have added them myself).

    I'm not sure if Verdana has all the unicode glyphs. At least for
    Mozilla based browsers, if a page says it needs character foo, but font
    Bar doesn't have that character, the browser will go look elsewhere to
    display the particular character.

    hn
    WeSaySo Guest

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