Embeding fonts question

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

I usually export eps's out of an Indesign document for a commercial printer, and then distill them in acrobat using a setting I made called "300dpiEmbedded". When I export the eps's out of Indesign I check embed fonts to "complete", and then I drop them in distiller and my distiller setting is checked both at embed fonts and embed subset fonts less than "1%".

My question is can I cut out the middle man and export PDF's right out of Indesign using that distiller setting and still have the same embedded results? I am always worried about font issues with commercial printers.

Also, I have heard different opinions on setting the subset number at 1%, 30% ??? and 100%, which is correct?

Thanks.

[Bob Levine]

First off, if you're going to distill something, I would suggest
creating a postscript file, not an EPS.

Secondly, you can try exporting an X/1-a PDF out of ID if the printer is
asking for distilled PDFs. You can embed the entire font by selecting 0%
in the subset below entry.

Why do you need to embed the entire font?

Bob

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

I am glad I brought that up, I was told by a "senior designer" it is better to export eps's than print a .ps file. I was always under the impression you needed to embed all fonts?? What exactly does the Subset do then?

[AlFerrari]

First off, if you're going to distill something, I would suggest creating
a postscript file, not an EPS.





Bob,

Can you please explain your reason for this?

Al

[Murray_Coppold@adobeforums.com]

Subsetting gives the font a new, unique ID. When the file is opened on another machine, the machine uses the unique font in the file.

If you just embed, and a font of the same name is resident on the other computer, that computer will use its own version. If the versions differ, you could have issues. For example, I could embed my Adobe Garamond from 1998 (whatever). If another machine has an earlier/later version of Adobe Garamond, it will use that version. So, even if it is a low risk that the fonts will be visibly different, it is a risk nevertheless. Subsetting avoids this.

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

Ok thanks. So basically keep it set at 1% to rename them all.

[by_Buko@adobeforums.com]

I've been trying to find where Dov explains why its not good to Distill EPS files. I haven't found it yet. Maybe Dov can come back and explain this one more time. then we can make a thread and put it up in the Permanent section.

[Bob Levine]

EPS is, as I understand it at least, a subset of postscript. Why not
just use the real deal and avoid any possible problems?

Bob

[Bob Levine]

Sorry, hit send too soon. What I wanted to add is that one of the major
differences is that there's no page info in EPS file.

Bob

[Bob Levine]

It's actually better, if you must have a distilled PDF, to print
directly to Adobe PDF. It's one step that won't leave you with a device
dependent PDF.

Bob

[Peter_Truskier@adobeforums.com]

As I recall we had a rather lengthy discussion on this a while back. I won't speak for Dov, but I recall his argument being that printing to Adobe PDF, as Bob suggests, is easier, and more fool-proof.

In my experience there is nothing "wrong" with Distilling a properly-made EPS file, precisely because it is a subset of PostScript.

In fact, there may be some benefits. For example, InDesign will export individual EPS files for a range of pages, and auto-name them for you. The limitation, of course, is that by definition an EPS file may only contain a single page.

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

The main 2 commercial printers I use at work specifically ask for individual PDF's, which is one reason why I export eps's, and then distill them. I basically export an eps called page.eps, and it then individually names all the pages page.eps, page_2.eps, page_3.eps, etc.

[Laura Hickle]

We are currently using the Export EPS->Distill method for our newspaper ads, and it seems to be working okay for us so far.

The only reason we're doing it is because in our previous workflow, the ad person worked in Multi-Ad Creator and exported EPS files for use in a Quark document. When we switched to all-InDesign all the time, that was a method she was comfortable continuing. (Change comes slowly around here.) When I took over the page layout duties, I wanted PDF ads instead, if for no other reason than the screen redraw time using EPS ads was terrible. So I just took her EPS ads and distilled them using the PDFx/1a setting.

I presume that I should be able to nudge my ad person into exporting directly using a PDFx/1a setting and it should be the same, right? I'm getting tired of the old two-step method; it seems a little silly.

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

I was talking to a preflight guy and he is telling me to always keep the subset percentage at 100%. Anything lower isn't embedding everything. ????

[Bob Levine]

At 100 the only glyphs that will be embedded will be the ones you used
in the document.

Here's an example to show you how it works. Say a font has 256 glyphs
and you use 128. If you select 51% only the 128 glyphs you used will be
emebedded. If you select 49% the entire font will be embedded.

I hope that makes sense to you.

Bob

[Mike_Rempe@adobeforums.com]

Thank you, it's clear now. So basically setting it at 1% will always include everything, which I guess can be overkill especially with some of the new open type fonts having a ton of glyphs, which I assume would add to your file size.

[AlFerrari]

Bob,

Excellent explanation. You should do that more often. :-)

Al

[Bob Levine]

If I had the time I would.

Bob

[Tom Usrey]

I thought I'd add this additional info that Dov Isaacs provided in a discussion on printplanet.com on May 21:

"...with the exception of the special OpenType font embed option for PDF 1.6, embedding fonts in PDF files does NOT embed all the font information that is used by layout programs for text composition. Pair kerning and extended font metrics information is not embedded. For OpenType fonts, all that great information that allows layout programs to easily provide access to small caps, old style numerals, swashs, contextual alternates, etc. is NOT embedded even when you embed the 'full' font as opposed to a subset. The bottom line is that even if Illustrator or Acrobat did allow editing with a fully embedded font, unless it was an OpenType font embedded with the fully embedded OpenType 1.6 option, proper use of the font couldn't be accomplished anyway!"

[AlFerrari]

If I had the time I would.




Bob,

I notice that you often end up elaborating on your earlier responses in a thread. It might actually save time to give a good explanation from the start.

1 cent,

Al