Error Trying to connect

[James Jones]

I am receiving this error when I try to connect to my sql
server. It worked yesterday without any problems but
today i get this error.

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80004005'
[DBNETLIB][ConnectionOpen (PreLoginHandshake()).] General
network error.

I have router that lets in/out traffic to the sql server
machine using the default ports.

It also is set up in the router to redirect sql traffic to
that computer.

Any and all suggestions would help.

[Ray at]

Load this page and look for "General network."

[url]http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2009[/url]

Ray at work

"James Jones" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1bc301c3e045$3eb60f70$a001280a@phx.gbl...

> I am receiving this error when I try to connect to my sql
> server. It worked yesterday without any problems but
> today i get this error.
>
> Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80004005'
> [DBNETLIB][ConnectionOpen (PreLoginHandshake()).] General
> network error.
>
> I have router that lets in/out traffic to the sql server
> machine using the default ports.
>
> It also is set up in the router to redirect sql traffic to
> that computer.
>
> Any and all suggestions would help.
>
>

[JJ]

I was able to look at that page, it told me it was a
generally a router issue. I can ping inside the network
but not outside. Any other suggestions.

J

>-----Original Message-----
>Load this page and look for "General network."
>
>[url]http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2009[/url]
>
>Ray at work
>
>"James Jones" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote

in message

>news:1bc301c3e045$3eb60f70$a001280a@phx.gbl...

>> I am receiving this error when I try to connect to my

sql

>> server. It worked yesterday without any problems but
>> today i get this error.
>>
>> Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server

error '80004005'

>> [DBNETLIB][ConnectionOpen (PreLoginHandshake()).]

General

>> network error.
>>
>> I have router that lets in/out traffic to the sql server
>> machine using the default ports.
>>
>> It also is set up in the router to redirect sql traffic

to

>> that computer.
>>
>> Any and all suggestions would help.
>>
>>

>
>
>.
>

[Ray at]

Can your webserver ping the SQL Server? And can it do so by name? (Can it
resolve the host name.) Are you using the default port for SQL? (1433 I
think.) Does the firewall allow two-way traffic through that port?

Ray at work

"JJ" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:164f01c3e046$ce450c30$a301280a@phx.gbl...

> I was able to look at that page, it told me it was a
> generally a router issue. I can ping inside the network
> but not outside. Any other suggestions.
>
> J
>

> >-----Original Message-----
> >Load this page and look for "General network."
> >
> >[url]http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2009[/url]
> >
> >Ray at work
> >
> >"James Jones" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote

> in message

> >news:1bc301c3e045$3eb60f70$a001280a@phx.gbl...

> >> I am receiving this error when I try to connect to my

> sql

> >> server. It worked yesterday without any problems but
> >> today i get this error.
> >>
> >> Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server

> error '80004005'

> >> [DBNETLIB][ConnectionOpen (PreLoginHandshake()).]

> General

> >> network error.
> >>
> >> I have router that lets in/out traffic to the sql server
> >> machine using the default ports.
> >>
> >> It also is set up in the router to redirect sql traffic

> to

> >> that computer.
> >>
> >> Any and all suggestions would help.
> >>
> >>

> >
> >
> >.
> >

[JJ]

>Can your webserver ping the SQL Server? And can it do so

by name? (Can it resolve the host name.) Are you using
the default port for SQL? (1433 I think.) Does the
firewall allow two-way traffic through that port?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I cannot ping the outside IP from
a computer outside the network. I cannot find anything
that has changed from yesterday. The IP address is still
the same and the settings are unchanged. Any other
suggestions.

This SUX

>
>Ray at work
>
>"JJ" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in

message

>news:164f01c3e046$ce450c30$a301280a@phx.gbl...

>> I was able to look at that page, it told me it was a
>> generally a router issue. I can ping inside the network
>> but not outside. Any other suggestions.
>>
>> J
>>

>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Load this page and look for "General network."
>> >
>> >[url]http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2009[/url]
>> >
>> >Ray at work
>> >
>> >"James Jones" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>

wrote

>> in message

>> >news:1bc301c3e045$3eb60f70$a001280a@phx.gbl...
>> >> I am receiving this error when I try to connect to my

>> sql

>> >> server. It worked yesterday without any problems but
>> >> today i get this error.
>> >>
>> >> Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server

>> error '80004005'

>> >> [DBNETLIB][ConnectionOpen (PreLoginHandshake()).]

>> General

>> >> network error.
>> >>
>> >> I have router that lets in/out traffic to the sql

server

>> >> machine using the default ports.
>> >>
>> >> It also is set up in the router to redirect sql

traffic

>> to

>> >> that computer.
>> >>
>> >> Any and all suggestions would help.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >

>
>
>.
>

[JJ]

I just noticed that from where I am, I cannot ping
anything. Maybe that is the problem? You think why I get
the error?

JJ

>-----Original Message-----
>Can your webserver ping the SQL Server? And can it do so

by name? (Can it

>resolve the host name.) Are you using the default port

for SQL? (1433 I

>think.) Does the firewall allow two-way traffic through

that port?

>
>Ray at work
>
>"JJ" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in

message

>news:164f01c3e046$ce450c30$a301280a@phx.gbl...

>> I was able to look at that page, it told me it was a
>> generally a router issue. I can ping inside the network
>> but not outside. Any other suggestions.
>>
>> J
>>

>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Load this page and look for "General network."
>> >
>> >[url]http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2009[/url]
>> >
>> >Ray at work
>> >
>> >"James Jones" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>

wrote

>> in message

>> >news:1bc301c3e045$3eb60f70$a001280a@phx.gbl...
>> >> I am receiving this error when I try to connect to my

>> sql

>> >> server. It worked yesterday without any problems but
>> >> today i get this error.
>> >>
>> >> Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server

>> error '80004005'

>> >> [DBNETLIB][ConnectionOpen (PreLoginHandshake()).]

>> General

>> >> network error.
>> >>
>> >> I have router that lets in/out traffic to the sql

server

>> >> machine using the default ports.
>> >>
>> >> It also is set up in the router to redirect sql

traffic

>> to

>> >> that computer.
>> >>
>> >> Any and all suggestions would help.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >

>
>
>.
>

[Ray at]

What computer is attempting to connect to the SQL Server? Your computer? A
web server? They're one in the same? The SQL Server and the Web server are
the same? If you're computer's in the mix and can't resolve host names or
ping or anything, then, yeah, that would be an issue.

Ray at work

"JJ" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:16f201c3e04b$5bb4a400$a101280a@phx.gbl...

> I just noticed that from where I am, I cannot ping
> anything. Maybe that is the problem? You think why I get
> the error?
>
> JJ

> >-----Original Message-----
> >Can your webserver ping the SQL Server? And can it do so

> by name? (Can it

> >resolve the host name.) Are you using the default port

> for SQL? (1433 I

> >think.) Does the firewall allow two-way traffic through

> that port?

> >
> >Ray at work
> >
> >"JJ" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in

> message

> >news:164f01c3e046$ce450c30$a301280a@phx.gbl...

> >> I was able to look at that page, it told me it was a
> >> generally a router issue. I can ping inside the network
> >> but not outside. Any other suggestions.
> >>
> >> J
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >Load this page and look for "General network."
> >> >
> >> >[url]http://www.aspfaq.com/show.asp?id=2009[/url]
> >> >
> >> >Ray at work
> >> >
> >> >"James Jones" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com>

> wrote

> >> in message
> >> >news:1bc301c3e045$3eb60f70$a001280a@phx.gbl...
> >> >> I am receiving this error when I try to connect to my
> >> sql
> >> >> server. It worked yesterday without any problems but
> >> >> today i get this error.
> >> >>
> >> >> Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server
> >> error '80004005'
> >> >> [DBNETLIB][ConnectionOpen (PreLoginHandshake()).]
> >> General
> >> >> network error.
> >> >>
> >> >> I have router that lets in/out traffic to the sql

> server

> >> >> machine using the default ports.
> >> >>
> >> >> It also is set up in the router to redirect sql

> traffic

> >> to
> >> >> that computer.
> >> >>
> >> >> Any and all suggestions would help.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >

> >
> >
> >.
> >

[JJ]

Sorry for such confusion. I have a home network with 3
computers, the sql server (own box), a test webserver/work
computer (not in use for current problem), and family
computer (not in use for current problem).

>-----Original Message-----
>What computer is attempting to connect to the SQL

Server? Your computer? A web server?

what happens is some calls a website that is hosted thru a
hosting company ([url]www.mywebsite.com[/url]). then a request to my
public IP using the default port comes into my home
network (using a connection string with public IP address,
default port, server name, username, and password). the
request is re-routed to the proper machine (sql server).
and ideally (like yesterday) the request is served and
sent to the browser.

>They're one in the same? The SQL Server and the Web
>server are the same?

No, the sql server is all by itself, nothing else is on
it.

[Ray at]

So, if two of your three computers are not in use, and one of them is the
webserver, on what server are you loading this page that gets this error?

Ray at work

"JJ" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1f0f01c3e04e$2cce89f0$a401280a@phx.gbl...

> Sorry for such confusion. I have a home network with 3
> computers, the sql server (own box), a test webserver/work
> computer (not in use for current problem), and family
> computer (not in use for current problem).
>

> >-----Original Message-----
> >What computer is attempting to connect to the SQL

> Server? Your computer? A web server?
>
> what happens is some calls a website that is hosted thru a
> hosting company ([url]www.mywebsite.com[/url]). then a request to my
> public IP using the default port comes into my home
> network (using a connection string with public IP address,
> default port, server name, username, and password). the
> request is re-routed to the proper machine (sql server).
> and ideally (like yesterday) the request is served and
> sent to the browser.
>
>

> >They're one in the same? The SQL Server and the Web
> >server are the same?

>
> No, the sql server is all by itself, nothing else is on
> it.
>
>

[Roland Hall]

"Ray at <%=sLocation%>" wrote
: So, if two of your three computers are not in use, and one of them is the
: webserver, on what server are you loading this page that gets this error?

If I may, it sounds like his webserver is hosted and it's communicates with
his SQL box, behind his firewall, on his home network. If he has dynamic
IP, it might have changed. If it's static, then obviously the issue is
something else but if not, then he needs a dynamic DNS service so the web
server can always find it, even when it changes.

And, if that's not it, then I'm as confused as you are. (O:=

--
Roland

This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
or fitness for a particular purpose.
-Technet Knowledge Base-
[url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;kbhowto&sd=TECH&ln=EN-US&FR=0[/url]
-Technet Script Center-
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/scriptcenter/default.asp[/url]
-WSH 5.6 documentation download-
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=01592C48-207D-4BE1-8A76-1C4099D7BBB9&displaylang=en[/url]
-MSDN Library-
[url]http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp[/url]

[JJ]

I think I figured out what happen. The webhosting
company may have blocked the default port. Now I changed
the port on the server and it works fine. Maybe after
they see traffic coming in that port they may block it,
but who know. THanks for listening and trying to help me
troubleshoot. Everything was set up correctly, its just
a webhosting issue from the webhoster.

>-----Original Message-----
>"Ray at <%=sLocation%>" wrote
>: So, if two of your three computers are not in use, and

one of them is the

>: webserver, on what server are you loading this page

that gets this error?

>
>If I may, it sounds like his webserver is hosted and

it's communicates with

>his SQL box, behind his firewall, on his home network.

If he has dynamic

>IP, it might have changed. If it's static, then

obviously the issue is

>something else but if not, then he needs a dynamic DNS

service so the web

>server can always find it, even when it changes.
>
>And, if that's not it, then I'm as confused as you are.

(O:=

>
>--
>Roland
>
>This information is distributed in the hope that it will

be useful, but

>without any warranty; without even the implied warranty

of merchantability

>or fitness for a particular purpose.
>-Technet Knowledge Base-
>[url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-[/url]

US;kbhowto&sd=TECH&ln=EN-US&FR=0

>-Technet Script Center-
>[url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?[/url]

url=/technet/scriptcenter/default.asp

>-WSH 5.6 documentation download-
>[url]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?[/url]

FamilyId=01592C48-207D-4BE1-8A76-
1C4099D7BBB9&displaylang=en

>-MSDN Library-
>[url]http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp[/url]
>
>
>.
>

Sorry, not the webhosting company, the cable company
providing my high speed internet.

Thanks for your help.

>-----Original Message-----
>I think I figured out what happen. The webhosting
>company may have blocked the default port. Now I

changed

>the port on the server and it works fine. Maybe after
>they see traffic coming in that port they may block it,
>but who know. THanks for listening and trying to help

me

>troubleshoot. Everything was set up correctly, its just
>a webhosting issue from the webhoster.

>>-----Original Message-----
>>"Ray at <%=sLocation%>" wrote
>>: So, if two of your three computers are not in use,

and

>one of them is the

>>: webserver, on what server are you loading this page

>that gets this error?

>>
>>If I may, it sounds like his webserver is hosted and

>it's communicates with

>>his SQL box, behind his firewall, on his home network.

>If he has dynamic

>>IP, it might have changed. If it's static, then

>obviously the issue is

>>something else but if not, then he needs a dynamic DNS

>service so the web

>>server can always find it, even when it changes.
>>
>>And, if that's not it, then I'm as confused as you

are.

>(O:=

>>
>>--
>>Roland
>>
>>This information is distributed in the hope that it

will

>be useful, but

>>without any warranty; without even the implied warranty

>of merchantability

>>or fitness for a particular purpose.
>>-Technet Knowledge Base-
>>[url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-[/url]

>US;kbhowto&sd=TECH&ln=EN-US&FR=0

>>-Technet Script Center-
>>[url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?[/url]

>url=/technet/scriptcenter/default.asp

>>-WSH 5.6 documentation download-
>>[url]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?[/url]

>FamilyId=01592C48-207D-4BE1-8A76-
>1C4099D7BBB9&displaylang=en

>>-MSDN Library-
>>[url]http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp[/url]
>>
>>
>>.
>>

>.
>

[Roland Hall]

<anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
: Sorry, not the webhosting company, the cable company
: providing my high speed internet.

Yes, the cable company who puts advertising on paid television so you have
to pay for the ads. Sounds like spam. Sounds like they want you to have
that business account even though you're not getting any additional
bandwidth with what you're doing.

--
Roland

This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
or fitness for a particular purpose.
-Technet Knowledge Base-
[url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;kbhowto&sd=TECH&ln=EN-US&FR=0[/url]
-Technet Script Center-
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/scriptcenter/default.asp[/url]
-WSH 5.6 documentation download-
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=01592C48-207D-4BE1-8A76-1C4099D7BBB9&displaylang=en[/url]
-MSDN Library-
[url]http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp[/url]

[Aaron Bertrand - MVP]

> Yes, the cable company who puts advertising on paid television so you have

> to pay for the ads. Sounds like spam.

I certainly don't want to sound like I advocate the way cable television
works or that the prices are fair. But certainly an argument could be made
that, because of the advertising revenue, cable television is much cheaper
than it would be otherwise.

> Sounds like they want you to have
> that business account even though you're not getting any additional
> bandwidth with what you're doing.

Bandwidth isn't the benefit you would expect from business service. At the
cable provider I use, the business account entitles you to a *free* modem
instead of a rented / purchased one (with free upgrades / replacements as
well), a fixed IP address, and no ports blocked. You still share the same
network as the masses (so 8 pm is noticeably slower than 1 AM, and there are
still the same frequency/duration of outages), but not the same
restrictions.

--
Aaron Bertrand
SQL Server MVP
[url]http://www.aspfaq.com/[/url]

[Roland Hall]

"Aaron Bertrand - MVP" wrote:
: > Yes, the cable company who puts advertising on paid television so you
have
: > to pay for the ads. Sounds like spam.
:
: I certainly don't want to sound like I advocate the way cable television
: works or that the prices are fair. But certainly an argument could be
made
: that, because of the advertising revenue, cable television is much cheaper
: than it would be otherwise.

I disagree with this. Let's look at some history. Cable said, "Cable TV is
better than local television because of NO COMMERCIALS, movies 24 hours,
more channels, one low monthly price..." Then cable said, "More for movie
channels, pay-per view (which is redundant... ALL CABLE IS PAY PER VIEW),
commercials keep the price down? They charge everyone for everything. If you
actually think you cable modem is free, you're naive.

You know why RR, personal, is $45/month? They compared it to the cost of an
extra phone line and an ISP connection. They didn't price it because it was
based upon a fair profit margin. They priced it based upon competition for
an increase in profit. (reads as whatever we can get away with). Wal-Mart
does the same thing until a company opens up a store in their area and then
immediately prices drop. In fact they will lose money on a lot of items to
run the other store out of business. Overall they can afford to do this
because they have so many stores and they have buying power. Same story
with cable. When direct TV hit hard, prices dropped, more deals were
offered... Now HBO on demand is free, as a special, etc., etc.

If you pay for someone to advertise to you, then that is EXACTLY what is
happening with SPAM. You pay for your net account, and someone advertises
to you, without your consent, that is SPAM. Show me how that is different.

I used to work for cable in the early 80s. I know what the promises were.
We promised them banking, shopping, etc. back then and when did fiber get
installed? TVs now have parts built in so you do not need a set top box,
unless you want digital and that will soon be obsolete. The problem with
cable is you don't get all the channels they once offered, unless you pay
more and the new gimmick, not so new anymore, multiple HBO channels,
ShowTime, TMC, etc. And they absolutely refuse to cross play, most of the
time, movies, to entice you to spend more money to get the extra channel.
It doesn't cost more to provide a movie channel. They just charge more for
it and label it a 'premium' channel because there is a demand. It has to do
with greed, not cost.

Why should it cost more if there is more demand? More demand means they're
going to make that much more anyway. Basic economics was designed by a
criminal mind, just like credit cards (charge everyone involved). What if
the lottery did the same thing and lotto dealers had to pay for every
transaction instead of making money?

The weather has been brutal in the North this year. The price of heating
oil has gone through the roof. Why? More demand. More demand = more greed.
People are not going to buy less when they're freezing their butts off.
They're just going to pay more.

Why do you think Microsoft charges for a server license, client access
license (per server/per seat), web license, terminal server client license,
etc.? Revenue. You have a server license, with client OS licenses, client
access licenses and you cannot connect via Terminal Services without a TSC
license, except for administration. Why? Greed. So, is TS as popular as it
could be? Nope. Why? Nobody wants to pay for it.

When it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it must
be a crow. (O:=

: > Sounds like they want you to have
: > that business account even though you're not getting any additional
: > bandwidth with what you're doing.
:
: Bandwidth isn't the benefit you would expect from business service. At
the
: cable provider I use, the business account entitles you to a *free* modem
: instead of a rented / purchased one (with free upgrades / replacements as
: well), a fixed IP address, and no ports blocked. You still share the same
: network as the masses (so 8 pm is noticeably slower than 1 AM, and there
are
: still the same frequency/duration of outages), but not the same
: restrictions.

I'm not renting a modem. It came with the deal. (see included) I get free
upgrades, replacements because I don't own it, they do. Generally the only
time I see an outage is when they decide they want to fix what's working.
Only once in 4-5 years has it ever been because of some other reason.

[Aaron Bertrand [MVP]]

> I disagree with this. Let's look at some history. Cable said, "Cable TV
is

> better than local television because of NO COMMERCIALS,

I'm not sure what you're on about, but at no point in my cognisant lifetime
has Cable TV been commercial free, or promised to be so. Well, aside from
the past two season premieres of 24. Pay TV, which (if you're paying
attention) obviously isn't meant to be taken in the literal sense that it's
the only TV you pay for, is different, of course.

> If you
> actually think you cable modem is free, you're naive.

What I mean is that it's part of the price. I already had a cable modem,
but they gave me an additional one, even though they could have chintzed on
it and let me use my own. They knew I had one, because I purchased it when
I signed up for the residential account, which I was upgrading from.

> They priced it based upon competition for
> an increase in profit.

Uh, don't most capitalist businesses operate this way? Dunkin Donuts,
Amazon, Asics, Coca-Cola. Let's boycott them all; they're evil! The nerve,
operating a company and trying to actually money while doing so... will
wonders never cease!

> does the same thing until a company opens up a store in their area and

then

> immediately prices drop.

Pffft. That's ridiculous, got a cite? Wal-Mart's prices are almost
unilaterally national. Their prices are already lower; they don't react on
a local scale when other companies open a store where there's a Wal-Mart,
and I certainly have never heard of a case where Wal-Mart was in a price war
or price gouging with anyone - they never have to. In fact, the effect is
quite the opposite; Wal-Mart moves into a town and the competition dwindles
away. They have a pretty effective barrier to entry, but this is still not
evil, unless you're the mom & pop shop that gets shut down. Having lower
prices and economies of scale are better off in general for the economy of
the town/city, and if you can't see that, it's because you're too
pre-occupied with this hatred towards companies that are doing the things
that allow them to exist... which, obviously, revolve around _making money_
.... what a shocker we have there. Obviously everything that happens in the
business world has an impact on something, and anything big in a town or
even a nation is going to be positive for some and negative for others.
Every decision we make has that same effect. Are we evil? Well, yes, but
not solely because of that.

> If you pay for someone to advertise to you, then that is EXACTLY what is
> happening with SPAM. You pay for your net account, and someone advertises
> to you, without your consent, that is SPAM. Show me how that is

different.

Cable is *OPTIONAL*... is anyone forcing you to buy cable? Of course not.
If you don't like cable, guess what? Stop paying your bill. You won't even
have to make a phone call to get your service discontinued, then you can
stop complaining about this weird "I'm paying for commercials" nonsense. If
you require e-mail for work, then SPAM is not optional.

In other words. Vote with your wallet, instead of your mouth. You'll get
much more accomplished, and have less to snivel about.

Though I'm not sure why you felt compelled to make the comment you made in
the first place. You jumped into this thread to attack "the cable
company" - and you don't even know which one it was. Sounds like a pretty
bad case of discrimination to me.

> The weather has been brutal in the North this year. The price of heating
> oil has gone through the roof. Why? More demand.

There's more to it than that, for example the power outage in NY/NJ left
refineries inoperable for dozens of hours. And anyone with basic
understanding of price elasticity knows what happens to a necessity when
supply dries up, and how much longer it takes for the effect to reverse
itself. You seem to be making blanket statements based on little fact and
mostly opinion, and it's not a very challenging discussion as a result.
Sorry.

> More demand = more greed.

You are one cynical person. I hope like hell you work for a non-profit,
because your tirade has described just about every company in America
(either how they are, or how they'd love to be -- if they could). Welcome
to capitalism 101.

> I'm not renting a modem. It came with the deal.

Yet you criticized me for calling it "free"... all I was implying was that I
got it without paying anything extra, even though they didn't have to
provide it, since I already had compatible equipment. I also got the cable
to go from the modem to the outlet, but you'll probably argue that I'm
paying out the nose unnecessarily for that equipment also.

Anyway, you should take this moaning somewhere relevant, because an ASP
newsgroup devoted to database questions clearly isn't an appropriate venue
for generic attacks on commercial enterprises...

[Roland Hall]

"Aaron Bertrand [MVP]" wrote:
<!--SNiP-->
: Anyway, you should take this moaning somewhere relevant, because an ASP
: newsgroup devoted to database questions clearly isn't an appropriate venue
: for generic attacks on commercial enterprises...

We agree it is off topic so I will not respond to your remarks however, do
make sure you always stay on topic. You wouldn't want to be seen as
hypocritical.