Firefox and IE performing differently

[tdbab]

We are creating a new site for our new Bed and Breakfast in Victoria BC and I
am copying many of the Toronto pages over to the new domain, to get it started.
However, one of the pages is behaving quite differently under Firefox than it
does under IExplorer. The Dreamweaver view matches what I want, and what IE
shows, but the Firefox view is wrong.

The pages are
[url]www.TDBAB.com/kudosALL.htm[/url]
and
[url]www.VictoriaBCBB.com/comments.htm[/url]

At least on MY Firefox, the large initials (H5: Georgia, 36pt, maroon, italic)
signficantly lower in each cell than theyshould be. I have the cells set for
align TOP in both - you'll notice the initials are NOT centred vertically in
the cells- they are all consistantly down several points or lines.

I have found that if I remove all styles from each initial and then re-enter
it, it will float to the top, but
1) that's a lot of work and
2) it doesn't answer why it's happening in the first place and
3) it doesn't explain why Firefox presents the page differently from IE

Probably something very simple that I am missing. That's why I appeal to you
for a quick look and a suggestion.

Thanks!

Jim

[Murray *ACE*]

FF is generally a very standards compliant browser. IE is not. One very
good way to make pages that do not look the same in the two is to use
non-standard markup.

The W3 validator finds 126 non-standard usages on that first linked page.
Many of them are missing alt attributes for images (wow - you have alot of
images there). Some of them are related to Flash embedding not validating.
Neither of these would cause the problem between IE and FF.

But the rest should be looked at carefully -

[url]http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://www.TDBAB.com/kudosALL.htm[/url]

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"tdbab" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:e1tlp9$pkh$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> We are creating a new site for our new Bed and Breakfast in Victoria BC
> and I
> am copying many of the Toronto pages over to the new domain, to get it
> started.
> However, one of the pages is behaving quite differently under Firefox than
> it
> does under IExplorer. The Dreamweaver view matches what I want, and what
> IE
> shows, but the Firefox view is wrong.
>
> The pages are
> [url]www.TDBAB.com/kudosALL.htm[/url]
> and
> [url]www.VictoriaBCBB.com/comments.htm[/url]
>
> At least on MY Firefox, the large initials (H5: Georgia, 36pt, maroon,
> italic)
> signficantly lower in each cell than theyshould be. I have the cells set
> for
> align TOP in both - you'll notice the initials are NOT centred vertically
> in
> the cells- they are all consistantly down several points or lines.
>
> I have found that if I remove all styles from each initial and then
> re-enter
> it, it will float to the top, but
> 1) that's a lot of work and
> 2) it doesn't answer why it's happening in the first place and
> 3) it doesn't explain why Firefox presents the page differently from IE
>
> Probably something very simple that I am missing. That's why I appeal to
> you
> for a quick look and a suggestion.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>

[tdbab]

Gads! That report is enough to make me give up Dreamweaver and coding all
together! 126 errors and it stops counting! Well, for one, all those missing
ALT tags are for small state/country flags beside each guest comment. I could
ALT tag them, I suppose, but I thought that was an option, not an error.

Then there is the ampersand problem. It's a B&B! I use that all the time. So,
I guess it sould be B&amp;B, right? But even the coding of URLs that I have
been given by Geotracking, for example, uses the & sign. I don't think I should
mess with their coding.

I don't understand a lot of the other errors. I really thought the Dreamweaver
defaulted to create the page outline that was acceptable, like the placement of
a <title> tag, or the <doctype> or the </html> closure - now I see these are
errors,
too!

I am both surprised, bewildered and disappointed all at once.

And ... that wasn't even the page or the domain that wasn't working! It was
the FIREFOX page of the VICTORIABCBB.com/comments.htm page that is not
displaying properly!

Thanks for the reply, but I wonder now if I'm in over my head on this one.
Remember, the kudos.htm page you ran thru the validator works FINE in both
browsers. Yet it is rife with "errors."

[Murray *ACE*]

> ALT tag them, I suppose, but I thought that was an option, not an error.

For valid code, it's not an option. Like I said, this is not the cause of
the problem you are seeing, though.

> I guess it sould be B&amp;B, right?

Yes. Had you entered that in DW's Design view, it would do the entity for
you.

> But even the coding of URLs that I have
> been given by Geotracking, for example, uses the & sign. I don't think I
> should
> mess with their coding.

Nope.

> I don't understand a lot of the other errors. I really thought the
> Dreamweaver
> defaulted to create the page outline that was acceptable, like the
> placement of
> a <title> tag, or the <doctype> or the </html> closure - now I see these
> are
> errors,
> too!

They are giving errors because of other errors on the page, though.

For example, you have this -

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="Adobe PageMill 3.0 Win">
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>Toronto Downtown Bed and Breakfast &reg; - Guest Comments</TITLE>
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="Shopping, Theatre, Gardens, Dining, Art
and History, just steps from our door. Full breakfast. Complimentary snacks.
Gracious hosts. Your assurance of excellence in downtown Toronto
accommodation. Toronto's premier luxury boutique accommodation.">
<META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="Toronto downtown toronto Ontario bed and
breakfast Church Street gay accommodation accomodation b&b theatre bed
breakfast gay friendly">
<TITLE>Guest Comments</TITLE>
<link rel="stylesheet" href="style.css" type="text/css">
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

I guarantee you that DW did not make this mess. If you would delete
everything from the top down to the doctype, many of your errors would go
away. Give it a try.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"tdbab" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:e1u22v$9no$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Gads! That report is enough to make me give up Dreamweaver and coding all
> together! 126 errors and it stops counting! Well, for one, all those
> missing
> ALT tags are for small state/country flags beside each guest comment. I
> could
> ALT tag them, I suppose, but I thought that was an option, not an error.
>
> Then there is the ampersand problem. It's a B&B! I use that all the time.
> So,
> I guess it sould be B&amp;B, right? But even the coding of URLs that I
> have
> been given by Geotracking, for example, uses the & sign. I don't think I
> should
> mess with their coding.
>
> I don't understand a lot of the other errors. I really thought the
> Dreamweaver
> defaulted to create the page outline that was acceptable, like the
> placement of
> a <title> tag, or the <doctype> or the </html> closure - now I see these
> are
> errors,
> too!
>
> I am both surprised, bewildered and disappointed all at once.
>
> And ... that wasn't even the page or the domain that wasn't working! It
> was
> the FIREFOX page of the VICTORIABCBB.com/comments.htm page that is not
> displaying properly!
>
> Thanks for the reply, but I wonder now if I'm in over my head on this one.
> Remember, the kudos.htm page you ran thru the validator works FINE in both
> browsers. Yet it is rife with "errors."
>

[tdbab]

Aha! It's transitional stuff. A half-life ago, I started that page on PageMill
before I migrated it to Dreamweaver! I see!

Yes, I'll clean that up. And that is exactly what I noticed on the new page
(the one, I repeat, that is giving me the problems) on the
[url]www.VictoriaBCBB.com/comments.htm[/url] page. THAT was a fresh creation on
Dreamweaver. I just copied the text over from the old one and dropped it into a
new template. So now there are NONE of those errors, except the ALT tags.

But, as you said, if I fix the ALT tag omissions, it still won't explain why
that page's initial letters in the lefthand column are dropped down so far into
the cells. Not centred. Just dropped a couple of inches - forcing the row often
to be deeper than it need be.

Still struggling with that problem, I am.

[Murray *ACE*]

The next thing you need to look at is the hinky table structure you have
used on that page. Please read this -

[url]http://apptools.com/rants/spans.php[/url]

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"tdbab" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:e1u5o0$dnf$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Aha! It's transitional stuff. A half-life ago, I started that page on
> PageMill
> before I migrated it to Dreamweaver! I see!
>
> Yes, I'll clean that up. And that is exactly what I noticed on the new
> page
> (the one, I repeat, that is giving me the problems) on the
> [url]www.VictoriaBCBB.com/comments.htm[/url] page. THAT was a fresh creation on
> Dreamweaver. I just copied the text over from the old one and dropped it
> into a
> new template. So now there are NONE of those errors, except the ALT tags.
>
> But, as you said, if I fix the ALT tag omissions, it still won't explain
> why
> that page's initial letters in the lefthand column are dropped down so far
> into
> the cells. Not centred. Just dropped a couple of inches - forcing the row
> often
> to be deeper than it need be.
>
> Still struggling with that problem, I am.
>

[tdbab]

Your reference discusses ROW SPAN and COL SPAN but there are none in the code
to [url]www.VictoriaBCBB.com/comments.htm[/url] so I don't see the relevance.

Again, my problem is with THAT page, which is pretty clean of errors (except
ALTs, which I am working on now) - NOT with the old TDBAB.com page that was
patched together over the last 8 years. The new page is clean, but IT is the
one that gives me the trouble in Firfox.

[Murray *ACE*]

Sorry - the thread was a little confused.

Add this to your rule for the h5 style -

margin-top:0;

and see what happens.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
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"tdbab" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:e22q8p$64j$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Your reference discusses ROW SPAN and COL SPAN but there are none in the
> code
> to [url]www.VictoriaBCBB.com/comments.htm[/url] so I don't see the relevance.
>
> Again, my problem is with THAT page, which is pretty clean of errors
> (except
> ALTs, which I am working on now) - NOT with the old TDBAB.com page that
> was
> patched together over the last 8 years. The new page is clean, but IT is
> the
> one that gives me the trouble in Firfox.
>

[tdbab]

I bet that would have worked, but I have just dropped the H5 from the initials
altogether, and created a new style .INITIAL and done a complete replacement.
I've also run it thru that validator about six times and finally - it
validates! I even get a seal of approval that I may stick on the page.

What a thrill that was. Seriously. That was fun, to learn how to do it right,
to see the old mistakes, to see the number of errors drop with each pass, and
finally get a green light.

Thanks for that tip, for that site. I will use it more often, for sure. :D

[Murray *ACE*]

It would have been way better to change the h5 than to add a custom class.
More explicity, less bulky code, etc.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"tdbab" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:e2305e$e1k$1@forums.macromedia.com...

>I bet that would have worked, but I have just dropped the H5 from the
>initials
> altogether, and created a new style .INITIAL and done a complete
> replacement.
> I've also run it thru that validator about six times and finally - it
> validates! I even get a seal of approval that I may stick on the page.
>
> What a thrill that was. Seriously. That was fun, to learn how to do it
> right,
> to see the old mistakes, to see the number of errors drop with each pass,
> and
> finally get a green light.
>
> Thanks for that tip, for that site. I will use it more often, for sure. :D
>

[workstat]

You mean you can't get IE to behave. Code for Firefox.