FrontPage template nightmare

[Stephie Smith]

I took over the web admin of a site I originally set up a few years ago. The
interim webmaster had switched the site over to an FP template. I don't use FP
so knew nothing about it and didn't see why I needed to since I was using DW3
to make changes.

Started having problems right away when I tried to make new pages using
components of the template. It turned into a lot of time recreating little
things so I decided I would use FP. Wouldn't work. Apollo Hosting said I had
corrupted the FP extensions by making changes in Dreamweaver?? So they
reinstalled the extensions. Then the site didn't work properly. Navigation
menus are gone, mainly, but other things are wrong, too.

Apollo said that reinstalling the extensions corrupted the web site so I
needed to restore from backup. Did that and asked one of the hosting techs to
connect thru his FP in case I was doing something wrong. Same thing happened
to the extensions. Vicious circle started again with reinstalling FP
extensions, and now site is down again. (BTW, site is authorsofromance.com but
home page has no navigation menu so can't get in. If you go to a different
page like authorsofromance.com/main.htm, there is no navigation on side.)

I see my options as the following, but I could be wrong. If anyone is brave
enough to make a suggestion, please do.

1. Restore from backup again so site is working and never even say the word
FrontPage again, let alone use the program. Problem with this is I have to
recreate everything in DW3 (or would upgrading to MX solve this, i.e., would I
be able to use FP components...add to navigation bars, add new navigation links
to existing pages, etc.)? Recreating from scratch would be a nightmare. I
can't even figure out the jillion extra lines of code to know what the purpose
of it is, especially since each page seems to have at least 6 nested tables.

2. Try to figure out why the vicious circle keeps happening ...did I corrupt
things by using DW in the first place? If not, why can't Apollo figure this
out? If they do figure it out so that FP works, I could just use FP, but would
have to totally rely on it as I couldn't begin to edit the html code as it is.

3. Switch hosting companies because it's their problem, not mine, and they're
not fixing it. ( Site has been down 2 days now. ) When I took over this site,
they did switch it to a new server with Plesk Panel, etc. They said all new
accounts had to go on the new server. I did not try to use the FP extensions
until after I had made the DW changes so I don't know if it was my changes or
their server that is causing the problem. I suppose that when Apollo switched
servers, they must have had a back-up so I could have them restore from that
one to see if FP extensions work with it as it was (untouched by me).

Thanks for any help,
Stephie Smith

[Murray *TMM*]

Stephie:

Let's put your questions on the back burner temporarily.

Tell me what the current and future status of the site is, please.
Specifically -

1. Will the site ever (in the forseeable future) be touched by FP again?
2. What FP-specific functions are being used in the site?
3. Are you going to be using DW3 to maintain the site for the forseeable
future (why DW3?)?


--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Stephie Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:d5vvdb$7qo$1@forums.macromedia.com...

>I took over the web admin of a site I originally set up a few years ago.
>The
> interim webmaster had switched the site over to an FP template. I don't
> use FP
> so knew nothing about it and didn't see why I needed to since I was using
> DW3
> to make changes.
>
> Started having problems right away when I tried to make new pages using
> components of the template. It turned into a lot of time recreating
> little
> things so I decided I would use FP. Wouldn't work. Apollo Hosting said
> I had
> corrupted the FP extensions by making changes in Dreamweaver?? So they
> reinstalled the extensions. Then the site didn't work properly.
> Navigation
> menus are gone, mainly, but other things are wrong, too.
>
> Apollo said that reinstalling the extensions corrupted the web site so I
> needed to restore from backup. Did that and asked one of the hosting
> techs to
> connect thru his FP in case I was doing something wrong. Same thing
> happened
> to the extensions. Vicious circle started again with reinstalling FP
> extensions, and now site is down again. (BTW, site is authorsofromance.com
> but
> home page has no navigation menu so can't get in. If you go to a
> different
> page like authorsofromance.com/main.htm, there is no navigation on side.)
>
> I see my options as the following, but I could be wrong. If anyone is
> brave
> enough to make a suggestion, please do.
>
> 1. Restore from backup again so site is working and never even say the
> word
> FrontPage again, let alone use the program. Problem with this is I have
> to
> recreate everything in DW3 (or would upgrading to MX solve this, i.e.,
> would I
> be able to use FP components...add to navigation bars, add new navigation
> links
> to existing pages, etc.)? Recreating from scratch would be a nightmare.
> I
> can't even figure out the jillion extra lines of code to know what the
> purpose
> of it is, especially since each page seems to have at least 6 nested
> tables.
>
> 2. Try to figure out why the vicious circle keeps happening ...did I
> corrupt
> things by using DW in the first place? If not, why can't Apollo figure
> this
> out? If they do figure it out so that FP works, I could just use FP, but
> would
> have to totally rely on it as I couldn't begin to edit the html code as it
> is.
>
> 3. Switch hosting companies because it's their problem, not mine, and
> they're
> not fixing it. ( Site has been down 2 days now. ) When I took over this
> site,
> they did switch it to a new server with Plesk Panel, etc. They said all
> new
> accounts had to go on the new server. I did not try to use the FP
> extensions
> until after I had made the DW changes so I don't know if it was my changes
> or
> their server that is causing the problem. I suppose that when Apollo
> switched
> servers, they must have had a back-up so I could have them restore from
> that
> one to see if FP extensions work with it as it was (untouched by me).
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Stephie Smith
>

[Stephie Smith]

Hi Murray...and thanks

>1. Will the site ever (in the forseeable future) be touched by FP again?

No way to know who will be the next webmaster, but I would probably stay on
for a couple of years anyway unless I have a nervous breakdown over this before
then. No one else in the group of ~50 knows any website admin, so... If the
next person must use FP, she could always take the last FP backup and make her
changes from there. I won't be adding a lot of new pages, just changing info
on a regular basis.

>2. What FP-specific functions are being used in the site?

I wish I could answer this question, but I don't know, except to say that it
was an FP template purchased from themegallery.com. It has CSS, which I have
never used, so there was going to be a learning curve anyway (tho the girl
doing it in FP didn't even know what CSS was when I asked her about it.) One
of the reasons I can't figure out what to do is becaue I can't figure out how
the template works exactly. We've only got about 10 main pages (and some forms
for paypal, etc.) but there are over 150 folders and over 2500 files. Inside
many top level folders are subfolders (and more subfolders) are files with
exactly the same name. Is this normal for FP using CSS?

She did use Swish instead of Flash. Does that matter?

>3. Are you going to be using DW3 to maintain the site for the forseeable

future (why DW3?)?
DW3 is what I have and since my own site is so simple, I didn't need to
upgrade. I don't object to upgrading to MX. The navigation menus are simple
(radio dials with text) so it's not like I have to create fancy graphics,
though I know I won't be able to make it look exactly the same. FP won't even
let me open/copy a simple image (I use ULead Photomagic for graphics since DW3
doesn't support graphic editing) and edit and rename it, or change the name of
a file and then open it and edit it. It's bizarre (isn't it or is this normal
for CSS graphics?) About 2,000 of the files are image files, though there's
only a navigation bar to the left (and one on the bottom of some pages). But
as I said, a lot of these images have the same file name exactly but are nested
inside subfolders. I wasn't sure if that was for mouseovers with CSS.

Stephie Smith

[Murray *TMM*]

> >1. Will the site ever (in the forseeable future) be touched by FP again?

> No way to know who will be the next webmaster, but I would probably stay
> on
> for a couple of years anyway

Then I think it's perfectly reasonable to convert the site to a DW site.
The problem you will have is the FP extensions. See later.

> >2. What FP-specific functions are being used in the site?

> I wish I could answer this question,

You're going to have to answer this question one way or another, however.
Am I correct in reading from your previous post that the site is not working
properly now?

> (and some forms
> for paypal, etc.)

Those are the ones that bother me.

> She did use Swish instead of Flash. Does that matter?

No.

> I don't object to upgrading to MX.

I'd recommend that you do that, particularly if you are working on a site
with CSS.

> It's bizarre

Yes if you are not familiar with FP, it certainly will be. I recommend that
you hire a consultant to help with this.

> or is this normal
> for CSS graphics

Certainly not.

> But
> as I said, a lot of these images have the same file name exactly but are
> nested
> inside subfolders.

If these subfolders are like "_vti...." then they are strictly FP stuff.

What is the URI to the site?

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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==================

"Stephie Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:d602ou$d1e$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Hi Murray...and thanks
>

> >1. Will the site ever (in the forseeable future) be touched by FP again?

> No way to know who will be the next webmaster, but I would probably stay
> on
> for a couple of years anyway unless I have a nervous breakdown over this
> before
> then. No one else in the group of ~50 knows any website admin, so... If
> the
> next person must use FP, she could always take the last FP backup and make
> her
> changes from there. I won't be adding a lot of new pages, just changing
> info
> on a regular basis.
>

> >2. What FP-specific functions are being used in the site?

> I wish I could answer this question, but I don't know, except to say that
> it
> was an FP template purchased from themegallery.com. It has CSS, which I
> have
> never used, so there was going to be a learning curve anyway (tho the girl
> doing it in FP didn't even know what CSS was when I asked her about it.)
> One
> of the reasons I can't figure out what to do is becaue I can't figure out
> how
> the template works exactly. We've only got about 10 main pages (and some
> forms
> for paypal, etc.) but there are over 150 folders and over 2500 files.
> Inside
> many top level folders are subfolders (and more subfolders) are files with
> exactly the same name. Is this normal for FP using CSS?
>
> She did use Swish instead of Flash. Does that matter?
>

> >3. Are you going to be using DW3 to maintain the site for the forseeable

> future (why DW3?)?
> DW3 is what I have and since my own site is so simple, I didn't need to
> upgrade. I don't object to upgrading to MX. The navigation menus are
> simple
> (radio dials with text) so it's not like I have to create fancy graphics,
> though I know I won't be able to make it look exactly the same. FP won't
> even
> let me open/copy a simple image (I use ULead Photomagic for graphics since
> DW3
> doesn't support graphic editing) and edit and rename it, or change the
> name of
> a file and then open it and edit it. It's bizarre (isn't it or is this
> normal
> for CSS graphics?) About 2,000 of the files are image files, though
> there's
> only a navigation bar to the left (and one on the bottom of some pages).
> But
> as I said, a lot of these images have the same file name exactly but are
> nested
> inside subfolders. I wasn't sure if that was for mouseovers with CSS.
>
> Stephie Smith
>

[Stephie Smith]

Url is [url]http://www.authorsofromance.com[/url] and I restored it from the backup (that
has some DW-edited files) because it's obvious that Apollo Hosting isn't going
to fix this problem. When I restored the site, the FP extensions went down
again. But I noticed that FP had reverted some of my DW changes just from it
connecting to the server once.

The Paypal forms aren't working properly anyway. I tried to submit one and
got an error. I was the person who originally created those Paypal forms in DW
4 yrs ago (and probably still have them stored). There's about 20 times as
much code on those pages now.

And yes, all those folders are vti-related. I'm so glad to hear that's FP and
not all CSS templates. Would I be having these problems with another hosting
company?

Thanks,
Stephie Smith

[Murray *TMM*]

One of the problems with FP sites is that if you connect using FTP, you will
break the FP extensions. That seems to be what is happening with you. If
you want to connect to an FP site, you will have to do it with FP only (this
is not entirely true, especially with later versions of FP - FP2003, for
example - but it's a good rule of thumb).

So - at this point, if your primary goal is to get the FP site running, you
have to ask the host to REINSTALL the FP extensions yet again, and then
Re-publish the site USING FP. That should get you going. Next you will
have to figure out how you want to move forward. That's where a consultant
will help....

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Stephie Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:d60ha6$5bf$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Url is [url]http://www.authorsofromance.com[/url] and I restored it from the backup
> (that
> has some DW-edited files) because it's obvious that Apollo Hosting isn't
> going
> to fix this problem. When I restored the site, the FP extensions went
> down
> again. But I noticed that FP had reverted some of my DW changes just from
> it
> connecting to the server once.
>
> The Paypal forms aren't working properly anyway. I tried to submit one
> and
> got an error. I was the person who originally created those Paypal forms
> in DW
> 4 yrs ago (and probably still have them stored). There's about 20 times
> as
> much code on those pages now.
>
> And yes, all those folders are vti-related. I'm so glad to hear that's FP
> and
> not all CSS templates. Would I be having these problems with another
> hosting
> company?
>
> Thanks,
> Stephie Smith
>

[Stephie Smith]

Murray,

That's not exactly what's going on unless what you mean is because I FTP'd a
DW-edited page in the beginning, things will never be the same. Now, they
restore the FP extensions and then FP works, but the site is immediately
inoperable (not because of DW, they said, but because restoring FP extensions
always does that and they always have to restore the site with a backup file
after restoring FP extensions.)

Okay, so as soon as the site is restored from the backup file, the FP
extensions that they just reinstalled no longer work. It's only then that I
have used Dreamweaver and FTP'd pages to the server because the hosting service
takes days to work on a ticket and I can't have that site down for days at a
time. We've had several hundred 404s in one day and we're getting ready to
launch our Feb 2006 conference which is a big deal with NYT best selling
authors speaking.

NOW...if you're saying that because the backup file on the server is one that
I made AFTER I had already FTP'd DW-edited pages to the site, and therefore
every time the backup with those DW pages is restored, the site is screwed,
then I absolutely hate that, but I can say Okay. I understand that maybe FP
won't stand for files edited by "others" to be in their site. That's why I've
been trying to get the hosting service to restore the backup using one from the
day they transferred my site to the new server before I ever touched a file
(the day I took over the account). But they keep ignoring my request.

Doesn't it seem that this will tell me if it's a problem with FP extensions
and their server, or a DW corruption problem that I caused? If everything
would work when they restored back to that old backup before I touched a file,
I would use FP to re-create the edits I made in DW and keep using FP for now
(and start recreating the site in DW MX at my leisure because I hate all that
extra code that FP puts in).

Does this change anything that you were thinking previously?

And I have to say that I really appreciate your time with this problem. It is
so GREAT to be able to ask a question and have someone actually reply and offer
suggestions. I REALLY appreciate it.
--
Stephie Smith, Writer
[url]http://www.StephieSmith.com[/url]

Webmaster, SpacecoasT Authors of Romance (STAR)
[url]http://www.authorsofromance.com[/url]

[Murray *TMM*]

> Now, they

> restore the FP extensions and then FP works, but the site is immediately
> inoperable (not because of DW, they said, but because restoring FP
> extensions
> always does that and they always have to restore the site with a backup
> file
> after restoring FP extensions.)

Uhh - they are nuts. Ask them not to restore the site, please.

> takes days to work on a ticket

That'd be it for me with these yokels. Hosts are plentiful. Unfortunately,
good hosts are not. But I'd change anyhow.

> I understand that maybe FP
> won't stand for files edited by "others" to be in their site.

That's not the case. But you have to know how to do it:

Always use FP to publish to the web.
Always edit files in a DIFFERENT location (i.e., a separate site - a DW
site) than the local FP site.
Always IMPORT the edited file into the FP site when finished.

> Doesn't it seem that this will tell me if it's a problem with FP
> extensions
> and their server

It's a problem with the HOST.

> I REALLY appreciate it.

You're welcome!

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Stephie Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:d610cm$oo0$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Murray,
>
> That's not exactly what's going on unless what you mean is because I FTP'd
> a
> DW-edited page in the beginning, things will never be the same. Now, they
> restore the FP extensions and then FP works, but the site is immediately
> inoperable (not because of DW, they said, but because restoring FP
> extensions
> always does that and they always have to restore the site with a backup
> file
> after restoring FP extensions.)
>
> Okay, so as soon as the site is restored from the backup file, the FP
> extensions that they just reinstalled no longer work. It's only then that
> I
> have used Dreamweaver and FTP'd pages to the server because the hosting
> service
> takes days to work on a ticket and I can't have that site down for days at
> a
> time. We've had several hundred 404s in one day and we're getting ready
> to
> launch our Feb 2006 conference which is a big deal with NYT best selling
> authors speaking.
>
> NOW...if you're saying that because the backup file on the server is one
> that
> I made AFTER I had already FTP'd DW-edited pages to the site, and
> therefore
> every time the backup with those DW pages is restored, the site is
> screwed,
> then I absolutely hate that, but I can say Okay. I understand that maybe
> FP
> won't stand for files edited by "others" to be in their site. That's why
> I've
> been trying to get the hosting service to restore the backup using one
> from the
> day they transferred my site to the new server before I ever touched a
> file
> (the day I took over the account). But they keep ignoring my request.
>
> Doesn't it seem that this will tell me if it's a problem with FP
> extensions
> and their server, or a DW corruption problem that I caused? If everything
> would work when they restored back to that old backup before I touched a
> file,
> I would use FP to re-create the edits I made in DW and keep using FP for
> now
> (and start recreating the site in DW MX at my leisure because I hate all
> that
> extra code that FP puts in).
>
> Does this change anything that you were thinking previously?
>
> And I have to say that I really appreciate your time with this problem.
> It is
> so GREAT to be able to ask a question and have someone actually reply and
> offer
> suggestions. I REALLY appreciate it.
> --
> Stephie Smith, Writer
> [url]http://www.StephieSmith.com[/url]
>
> Webmaster, SpacecoasT Authors of Romance (STAR)
> [url]http://www.authorsofromance.com[/url]
>

[Stephie Smith]

I do use WS_FTP to ftp any DW changed files to the site and I do have a
separate folder set up for the DW site. I was not, however, saving DW-edited
files back into the FP site, but the last time I only connected to the remote
site thru FT without opening the site locally (actually had deleted the files
from it so it couldn't change them) and yet the same thing happened, i.e., FP
extensions were corrupted. Here it is 3 days and Apollo has not replied.
Yesterday when I called, there was absolutely no record of the guy who talked
to me for 45 minutes the day before working on any ticket at all and he was off
yesterday. So I am switching hosting services. Unfortunately the gorup paid
for a year's subscription and they have a 30 day cancellation policy, but we'll
see about that.
Thanks again for all your help.
Stephie Smith

[Murray *TMM*]

It's a sad story, Stephie. I took their comments to the FP forums and asked
how correct they sounded -

---------------------------
I am working with an individual who has inherited a FP site - unknown FP
version, but definitely using FP form processing.

Unwittingly, she connected to the site with Dreamweaver's FTP, and uploaded
a file. You know the story. Here's some of her narrative -

"That's not exactly what's going on unless what you mean is because I FTP'd
a
DW-edited page in the beginning, things will never be the same. Now, they
restore the FP extensions and then FP works, but the site is immediately
inoperable (not because of DW, they said, but because restoring FP
extensions
always does that and they always have to restore the site with a backup file
after restoring FP extensions.)

Okay, so as soon as the site is restored from the backup file, the FP
extensions that they just reinstalled no longer work. It's only then that I
have used Dreamweaver and FTP'd pages to the server because the hosting
service
takes days to work on a ticket and I can't have that site down for days at a
time. We've had several hundred 404s in one day and we're getting ready to
launch our Feb 2006 conference which is a big deal with NYT best selling
authors speaking."

In addition to recommending that she change hosts, I am wondering how much
of the rest of this is hoohah. Does it sound right to you?
------------------------

And a response -
------------------------

It sounds like a host who doesn't know how to configure and maintain
accounts with the FP server extensions.
--
===
Tom "Pepper" Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage



--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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"Stephie Smith" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:d62pie$ke7$1@forums.macromedia.com...

>I do use WS_FTP to ftp any DW changed files to the site and I do have a
> separate folder set up for the DW site. I was not, however, saving
> DW-edited
> files back into the FP site, but the last time I only connected to the
> remote
> site thru FT without opening the site locally (actually had deleted the
> files
> from it so it couldn't change them) and yet the same thing happened, i.e.,
> FP
> extensions were corrupted. Here it is 3 days and Apollo has not replied.
> Yesterday when I called, there was absolutely no record of the guy who
> talked
> to me for 45 minutes the day before working on any ticket at all and he
> was off
> yesterday. So I am switching hosting services. Unfortunately the gorup
> paid
> for a year's subscription and they have a 30 day cancellation policy, but
> we'll
> see about that.
> Thanks again for all your help.
> Stephie Smith
>