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ftp client (OS X) and VMS ODS-5 - Mac Networking

Can anyone recommend a Mac OS X ftp client that plays well with VMS? I have just started playing with ODS-5 extended filenames on VMS 7.2-3 Both Fetch and Transmit barf at the VMS ^_ convention for embedding spaces in filenames, which mucks up the excellent drag and drop facility they each have. -- Swen has got to me. I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address. fsnospam$elliott$$...

  1. #1

    Default ftp client (OS X) and VMS ODS-5

    Can anyone recommend a Mac OS X ftp client that plays well with VMS?
    I have just started playing with ODS-5 extended filenames on VMS 7.2-3
    Both Fetch and Transmit barf at the VMS ^_ convention for embedding
    spaces in filenames, which mucks up the excellent drag and drop
    facility they each have.

    --
    Swen has got to me. I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail
    address. fsnospam$elliott$$
    Elliott Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: ftp client (OS X) and VMS ODS-5

    Elliott Roper <co.uk> writes: 

    I suppose using the command-line UNIX FTP client (type "ftp" from a
    shell prompt) wouldn't suffice here. That's what I normally use when
    GUI programs have problems with a site.

    -- David
    David Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: ftp client (OS X) and VMS ODS-5

    In article <invalid>, David C. <com>
    wrote:
     
    >
    > I suppose using the command-line UNIX FTP client (type "ftp" from a
    > shell prompt) wouldn't suffice here. That's what I normally use when
    > GUI programs have problems with a site.[/ref]

    Yes, that's one way I get round it. I can also type the filename in
    quotes on the get... button in Fetch. However, for casual use, dragging
    is so much nicer when it works properly. Thanks for replying.

    I s'pose I should get off my bum and write a jacket thing for the cli.

    --
    Swen has got to me. I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail
    address. fsnospam$elliott$$
    Elliott Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: ftp client (OS X) and VMS ODS-5

    In article <090220040215211950%co.uk>,
    Elliott Roper <co.uk> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > I suppose using the command-line UNIX FTP client (type "ftp" from a
    > > shell prompt) wouldn't suffice here. That's what I normally use when
    > > GUI programs have problems with a site.[/ref]
    >
    > Yes, that's one way I get round it. I can also type the filename in
    > quotes on the get... button in Fetch. However, for casual use, dragging
    > is so much nicer when it works properly. Thanks for replying.
    >
    > I s'pose I should get off my bum and write a jacket thing for the cli.[/ref]

    The problem is that the FTP protocol doesn't really lend itself to
    automation. The protocol as originally specified doesn't include an
    unambiguous, machine-readable file listing syntax. It was designed long
    before GUIs, with the expectation that users would view the directory
    listing, and then type commands like: get "file with spaces"

    There has been work over the past few years to augment the protocol to
    fill in gaps like this, but I don't know what the implementation status
    is for them. I don't think they're considered high priority, because
    network file system protocols (e.g. NFS, Appleshare, and CIFS) provide
    better ways to do this in most cases.

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: ftp client (OS X) and VMS ODS-5

    In article <comcast.net>, Barry
    Margolin <mit.edu> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > Yes, that's one way I get round it. I can also type the filename in
    > > quotes on the get... button in Fetch. However, for casual use, dragging
    > > is so much nicer when it works properly. Thanks for replying.
    > >
    > > I s'pose I should get off my bum and write a jacket thing for the cli.[/ref]
    >
    > The problem is that the FTP protocol doesn't really lend itself to
    > automation. The protocol as originally specified doesn't include an
    > unambiguous, machine-readable file listing syntax. It was designed long
    > before GUIs, with the expectation that users would view the directory
    > listing, and then type commands like: get "file with spaces"
    >
    > There has been work over the past few years to augment the protocol to
    > fill in gaps like this, but I don't know what the implementation status
    > is for them. I don't think they're considered high priority, because
    > network file system protocols (e.g. NFS, Appleshare, and CIFS) provide
    > better ways to do this in most cases.[/ref]

    I read somewhere that one of the Mac ftp client app developers was
    working on some kind of table driven pr for list results, which
    would go a long way to solving one half of the problem.

    I guess it is too much pain for too little gain. Sadly, ftp is the best
    route between VMS and Mac. Both Samba and Appleshare are barely
    maintained and NFS, while available on VMS is too scary to contemplate.

    I s'pose I'll stick to typing and some after-the-event filename
    fixer-uppers. Thanks.

    --
    Swen has got to me. I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail
    address. fsnospam$elliott$$
    Elliott Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: ftp client (OS X) and VMS ODS-5

    Barry Margolin <mit.edu> writes: 

    And a lot of this work has taken the form of making the FTP servers
    produce directory listings that mimic the output of the UNIX "ls -l"
    command, since that's what most FTP servers have historically
    reported.

    Unfortunately, if your server doesn't use this format (as I suspect
    VMS doesn't), it means the GUI utility has to try and p filenames
    from whatever is reported, which is often non-intuitive.

    -- David
    David Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: ftp client (OS X) and VMS ODS-5

    In article <invalid>, com (David C.)
    wrote:
     
    >
    > And a lot of this work has taken the form of making the FTP servers
    > produce directory listings that mimic the output of the UNIX "ls -l"
    > command, since that's what most FTP servers have historically
    > reported.[/ref]

    No, that has been the traditional "solution". I was talking about a new
    command, I think it's MLST, whose output format is specified in the
    standard.

    --
    Barry Margolin, mit.edu
    Arlington, MA
    *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
    Barry Guest

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