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getting started - Mac Programming

Hello. I have experience programming in C++ on a Sun system that was managed by a university department. I would now like to write code on my mac (powerbook) but am having trouble getting started. specific questions/problems: 1) Can anyone recommend a website/book/newsgroup that would be helpfull? 2) I've downloaded gnu compilers, but am woefully unable to find or use them. When I try and compile a program in the unix terminal, my computer can't seem to find the compilers. 3) I'd like to use emacs, because I'm familiar with it, but having downloaded the latest version, can't figure out ...

  1. #1

    Default getting started

    Hello. I have experience programming in C++ on a Sun system that was
    managed by a university department. I would now like to write code on
    my mac (powerbook) but am having trouble getting started.

    specific questions/problems:

    1) Can anyone recommend a website/book/newsgroup that would be
    helpfull?

    2) I've downloaded gnu compilers, but am woefully unable to find or
    use them. When I try and compile a program in the unix terminal, my
    computer can't seem to find the compilers.

    3) I'd like to use emacs, because I'm familiar with it, but having
    downloaded the latest version, can't figure out how to make it.

    Any help or guidance would be very much appreciated. Thanks!
    Sonali Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: getting started


    "Sonali Jones" <utah.edu> wrote in message
    news:google.com... 


    OS X comes with a Developer Tools CD that is not installed by default. It
    installs and configures the gnu tools for you + Apple's GUI tools,
    doentation, etc.

    I just checked and I have emacs 21.1.1 installed, not sure if it came from
    the tools CD or with the OS (don't use it myself.) It's a 10.2.8 system, so
    there may be something newer.

    Once you have the basics above working, check out
    http://fink.sourceforge.net/ and http://www.osxgnu.org/, where you can get
    tons more Unix apps. DON'T try to build a development environment from
    scratch that way: you need all the headers, libs, etc, from the Developer
    Tools CD if you want to get it working this century.


    Paul Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: getting started

    In article <google.com>,
    utah.edu (Sonali Jones) wrote:
     

    I know this belongs in neither 1), 2) or 3), but you might want to
    grab Hillegass' "Cocoa programming for Mac OS X":

    http://www.bignerdranch.com/products/cocoa1.shtml

    It's a good starter for programming objective-C.

    --
    C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
    C Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: getting started

    > In article <google.com>, [/ref]

    Hi,

    I too am looking to get started in Mac programming. I'm looking to do a
    couple very basic home applications (simple databases etc).

    I'm wondering what languages to be looking at, given that I'm pretty new to
    Mac development and part of the fun will be learning new things. I know this
    is largely a matter of taste, but any feedback will be helpful.

    I will probably start with AppleScript, but I'm wondering about C++ vs
    Objective C if I want to move on. My C++ is university level and very rusty
    and I know knowthing about Objective C. (I'm a fast learner and have tried
    my hand at plenty of languages, COBOL, C, Visual Basic, Prolog (my
    favourite!).

    Cheap is good - I have a budget of approximately $0, which probaby rules out
    Real Basic.

    I thought I may as well start with Cocoa as many people seem to think it's
    easier if you're starting from scratch.

    Any comments or advice are more than welcome. No religous wars please!

    Tom.


    Tom Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: getting started

    In article <cb7prt$ris$connect.com.au>, Tom Beer
    <spamfilter.com> wrote:
     [/ref]
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I too am looking to get started in Mac programming. I'm looking to do a
    > couple very basic home applications (simple databases etc).
    >
    > I'm wondering what languages to be looking at, given that I'm pretty new to
    > Mac development and part of the fun will be learning new things. I know this
    > is largely a matter of taste, but any feedback will be helpful.
    >
    > I will probably start with AppleScript, but I'm wondering about C++ vs
    > Objective C if I want to move on. My C++ is university level and very rusty
    > and I know knowthing about Objective C. (I'm a fast learner and have tried
    > my hand at plenty of languages, COBOL, C, Visual Basic, Prolog (my
    > favourite!).[/ref]

    I would NOT start with AppleScript. Scripting languages, including
    AppleScript are their own world (I'm not including in this Transcript,
    the scripting language of Revolution or similar environments) and are
    intended for particular purposes. If you really want to learn to write
    Mac programs the easiest way would be Cocoa.
     

    If you have OS X then you can get by on your budget: the Developer
    Tools come with OS X and upgrades are free from the download site.
    ProjectBuilder (OS X 10.2 and earlier) and Xcode are very good and are
    what you need to program Cocoa using Object C (or Objective C++ is you
    insist) or Java programming languages. You can even put user
    interfaces on AppleScript with these tools.

    Spence

    --
    James P. Spencer
    Rochester, MN

    "Badges?? We don't need no stinkin badges!"
    James Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: getting started

    Tom Beer wrote: 

    i don't think it's possible to have this kind of discussion *without*
    the concomitant religious war. so, having said that, personally i find
    cocoa to be a lot more approachable than carbon, because carbon has two
    decades of ugly cruft in it that can't ever be removed, because the
    whole point of carbon is so old-skool mac programmers can continue to
    use their existing skills and codebases on macosx. cocoa was designed
    much later, and makes more sense for the kinds of computers we have
    today, instead of the ones we had in 1984. but personally i am not so
    crazy about obj-c. my reasons are entirely selfish: i spent a decade
    getting good at c++, my brain uses c++ idioms to solve problems, and i
    am not prepared to have all that knowledge obsoleted out from under me.
    obj-c's retain/release in particular, that really drives me up a wall.
    c-style memory allocation was already a solved problem for me, then they
    go and throw this spanner into the works i don't want to deal with.
    sigh.

    so you see, i advocate making a big break with the past so you can get
    rid of ugly cruft, unless i have to learn something new and discard
    cruft i am personally fond of. heh! so this opinion of mine is
    entirely self-serving and worthless to you, as will be any others you
    receive. hth!
    Jhnny Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: getting started

    In article <cb7prt$ris$connect.com.au>,
    "Tom Beer" <spamfilter.com> wrote:
     

    AppleScript is something completely different than C, C++, and so on.

    I've never tried C++, so I can't comment on it. However, I found that
    Objective-C is a very good programming language once one manages to
    wrap one's head around it.
     

    The tools needed for programming Cocoa/Objective-C are free - so I
    think you'll be able to afford them. ;)
     

    Good idea. And stay away from Carbon. Carbon is basically just a
    bridge for programmers of the "old" OS, and has an equally ugly API.
     

    Too late for that; you said " C++ vs Objective C" - and that's a
    rallying call for the mujahedeen. ;)
     

    --
    C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
    C Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: getting started

    "C Lund" <no> wrote in message
    news:chello.com... 
    >
    > Too late for that; you said " C++ vs Objective C" - and that's a
    > rallying call for the mujahedeen. ;)
    >[/ref]

    Thanks to all who replied so far. Your opinions have been valuable.

    I have done a few little apps in Hypercard (those were the days!) and was
    thinking AppleScript might be a suitable replacement.

    It sounds like it's worth learning a compiled language as well.

    To pour some oil on the fire - are the differences between C++ substantial?
    I know next to knowthing about objective C (it's an OO derivative of C -
    yes?). Is it anything like java?

    Tom.


    Tom Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: getting started

    On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Tom Beer wrote: 

    If you liked Hypertalk, as I did, you might like RealBasic. If you know
    Smalltalk, you may like it even better.

    There is somewhat of a Hypertalk flavor to Applescript, but what you
    need to know to make it work is much more than was needed in Hypercard
    -- because what you can do is much greater.

    You might check your library or local bookstore and check out two of
    Matt Neuburg's books: "Applescript The Definitive Guide" and "REALbasic
    The Definitive Guide" and see if one or the other of them is more
    appealing.

    joe
    Joe Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: getting started

    In article <cbabef$rnp$connect.com.au>,
    "Tom Beer" <spamfilter.com> wrote:
     

    Extremely. Even after some years full-time it is still very likely to
    find new C++ facets that are odd, great, cool or driving crazy. In
    short: C++ is complex, and it offers close to no protection to shoot
    yourself in the foot. Coding discipline is extrememly important, then,
    due to strong typing, the compiler might validate a lot of your code.

    Sample Code is available from many sources, though to get it to work on
    Mac OS requires sometimes significant work...
     

    It is an OO derivate with an odd syntax and weak binding. It is still
    easy to shoot yourself in the foot, C++-wise "complex" things are
    sometimes easy, easy things OTOH can take ages to get to work. Also
    requires some level of discipline.
    Sample Code is available from Apples website, but its only snippets...
     

    Nope. Java is a great "sandboxed" learning environment. The weak point
    is IMO still User-Interfaces (you can try Interfacebuilder-generated
    Java UIs that give you at least native tools, otherwise it is rather
    awkward, but that technology is deprecated). Strengths are Internet-,
    Database-connectivity and and XML.
    Learning to use java code from other platforms and adopt it to Mac OS X
    will take some days - depending how messed up the original projects were.

    Regards,
    Tom_E

    --
    This address is valid in its unmodified form but expires soon.

    Thomas Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: getting started

    "Thomas Engelmeier" <com> wrote in message
    news:de... [/ref]
    substantial? 

    Thanks very much Thomas. My experience with C++ is it isn't that hard to
    shoot yourself in the head, either :-).

    I've downloaded some Objective C doco from Apple. Should be an interesting
    read.

    Tom.


    Tom Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: getting started

    On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Thomas Engelmeier wrote: 
    >
    > It is an OO derivate with an odd syntax and weak binding. It is still
    > easy to shoot yourself in the foot, C++-wise "complex" things are
    > sometimes easy, easy things OTOH can take ages to get to work. Also
    > requires some level of discipline. Sample Code is available from
    > Apples website, but its only snippets...
    >[/ref]

    If you know Smalltalk and C, Objective-C is quite comfortable -- as it's
    C with Smalltalk capabilities added on. Even the class libraries appear
    to have started as versions of the classic smalltalk libraries.

    That said, if you know C++, and particularly if you like C++, you may find
    it very frustrating, since the philosophies of smalltalk and C++ are not
    quite diametrically opposed.

    joe
    Joe Guest

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