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Hard drive fullness limits information help request - FreeBSD

Hi all I know hard drives tend to not run well when near full. They have trouble performing self adjustments (hardware), self defragging(unix/FFS) etc.. (as I can express it) However, I need to find some doentation or some help in explaining this better. I am working with some people who store loads of files, on many drives and tend to fill the drives to 95% and more and then can't understand why they become unstable. I need to be able to explain it better and I would also like to know more to be able to factually/sanely set a percent ...

  1. #1

    Default Hard drive fullness limits information help request

    Hi all
    I know hard drives tend to not run well when near
    full. They have trouble performing self adjustments
    (hardware), self defragging(unix/FFS) etc.. (as I can
    express it) However, I need to find some doentation
    or some help in explaining this better.
    I am working with some people who store loads of
    files, on many drives and tend to fill the drives to
    95% and more and then can't understand why they become
    unstable. I need to be able to explain it better and
    I would also like to know more to be able to
    factually/sanely set a percent full safe limit.

    Any help would be appreciatted

    Thanks!

    NMH.



    The Large Print Giveth And The Small Print Taketh Away
    -- Anon



    __________________________________
    Do you Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
    http://smallbusiness./resources/
    NMH Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Hard drive fullness limits information help request

    --On Monday, April 11, 2005 12:30:37 PM -0700 NMH <com>
    wrote:
     
    Q: What happens when you fill a cabinet that is designed to hold 100
    folders with 95 folders, many of which are crammed full of papers?

    A: It gets much harder to put more folders in or to put more "stuff" in the
    existing folders. And papers start to stick out and catch on the top of
    the drawer because they no longer fit.

    Paul Schmehl (edu)
    Adjunct Information Security Officer
    The University of Texas at Dallas
    AVIEN Founding Member
    http://www.utdallas.edu
    Paul Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hard drive fullness limits information help request

    >> Hi all 
    > Q: What happens when you fill a cabinet that is designed to hold 100 folders
    > with 95 folders, many of which are crammed full of papers?
    >
    > A: It gets much harder to put more folders in or to put more "stuff" in the
    > existing folders. And papers start to stick out and catch on the top of the
    > drawer because they no longer fit.[/ref]

    And to add to that, when you realize you want to re-organize folder XYZ to
    make it "tidier", but you don't want to do it to the originals since they
    are important to you, where are you going to get the room to first make a
    a copy of the folder, then organize it, then replace the original once
    you've confirmed that you didn't leave any papers on the floor. So you
    are stuck with an untidy XYS folder. Yuck.

    Probably not the most accurate ogy, but it's easy to understand...
    Philip Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hard drive fullness limits information help request



    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "NMH" <com>
    To: "hardware" <org>; "questions"
    <org>
    Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:30 PM
    Subject: Hard drive fullness limits information help request

     


    NMH,

    If these people are old enough to remember LP records, explain it to them in
    this fashion.

    A hard drive is much like an older LP record. Multiple songs, in sequencial
    order. You can play them in any order that you wish by moving the tone arm
    to a different song on the album. Now, say that you don't like track 3 and
    wish to delete it (if you could). You would end up with 3 minutes of blank
    space in the album. So, you want to add another song that you do like, but
    it's 3 minutes 30 seconds long and won't fit into a 3 minute time slot. A
    hard drive is able to place this 30 seconds at the end of the current space
    and be able to jump to that 30 extra seconds and you never know the
    difference. Now, if this happens a lot, meaning removing data, adding larger
    data, removing data, adding smaller chunks of data, etc, the actual data
    will get scattered throughout the disk. This is known as data fragmentation.
    Hard drives are able to deal with to a considerable degree however the more
    fragmented a drive is, the harder the drive has to work in order to make
    that unnoticed jump. As the drive works harder, access times grow longer and
    there is a higher potential for data loss. When drives get to a higher usage
    (90%+ utilization), there isn't much room to left to handle those scattered
    chuncks of data.

    That's the ogy that I used to use and it worked pretty well for me. Your
    mileage may vary.

    --

    Micheal Patterson
    Senior Communications Systems Engineer
    405-917-0600

    Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments,
    is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
    confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
    disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
    recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
    copies of the original message.

    Micheal Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hard drive fullness limits information help request

    Reference: 

    NMH wrote: 

    I usually run near full.
    I dont have problems ('cept overflow ;-)

    man tunefs

    & you'll realise most FS's arent run full anyway
    (but even if I
    tunefs -m 0 -o space
    I dont normally have problems ( though OK, it'd be slow if multi person usage)

    Cross posting 2 lists is deprecated, so I dropped freebsd-hardware
    as this question is too basic for hardware as well as questions.

    -
    Julian Stacey Net & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com
    Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
    Julian Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hard drive fullness limits information help request


    --- Julian Stacey <org> wrote: 
    > <mail.>
    >
    >
    > NMH wrote: 
    > near 
    > adjustments 
    >
    > I usually run near full.
    > I dont have problems ('cept overflow ;-)
    >
    > man tunefs
    >
    > & you'll realise most FS's arent run full anyway
    > (but even if I
    > tunefs -m 0 -o space
    > I dont normally have problems ( though OK, it'd be
    > slow if multi person usage)[/ref]

    If you do man tunefs it you will see how it warns
    that less than 15% is dangerous. (even though normally
    only 8% is reserved. It's especially dangerous when
    you have Many Many files. (and a large hard drive -
    thus more to manage)
     

    For shame. A "your question is too dumb to have
    written to our mailing list"? I hope you are not
    trying to represent the great open arms of FreeBSD and
    the questions mailing list. My Question is quite
    appropriate for either list. Nor should someone even
    be given the feeling their questions are too basic to
    bother us with! (unless your aim is to drive people
    away)
    However, I was hoping someone could point me more
    towards a white paper or some such other information.
    Such as that used by the man page for tunefs, that
    recommends not using more than 15% or drive capcity
    and how performance can degrade 3 fold of the
    performance at 10%. So that I can work up my own
    percentages for my type of file usage. (and yes Inode
    usage is fine)


    NMH.

     
    http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions 

    The Large Print Giveth And The Small Print Taketh Away
    -- Anon



    __________________________________
    Do you Yahoo!?
    Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
    http://smallbusiness./resources/
    NMH Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Hard drive fullness limits information help request

    NMH wrote: 

    i suggest tunefs as well. My server uses many drives, most filled to
    95% and higher. I've never had a filesystem-oriented problem.

    Cheers!

     


    --
    Matt Virus ("veer-iss")
    http://www.mattvirus.net
    matt Guest

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