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Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9 - Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration

Hey all I have just installed some new servers here at work and am wanting to check and optimize the hard drive performance as I think it is a bit dodgy. The system specs are: - P4 3GHz (with HyperThreading) - 2GB RAM - 2 x Seagate 120GB SATA drives (in a RAID 1 - mirrored RAID) - Asus P4C-E Deluxe mobo - Promise FastTrack (20)378 onboard SATA RAID controller - RedHat 9 (customized) - 2.4.20-smp kernel (damn those RAID drivers) - Currently using the Promise.com's FastTrak TX4000/376/378/S150 TX Series Linux Driver The drives are mirrored for data security but ...

  1. #1

    Default Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Hey all

    I have just installed some new servers here at work and am wanting to check
    and optimize the hard drive performance as I think it is a bit dodgy.

    The system specs are:

    - P4 3GHz (with HyperThreading)
    - 2GB RAM
    - 2 x Seagate 120GB SATA drives (in a RAID 1 - mirrored RAID)
    - Asus P4C-E Deluxe mobo
    - Promise FastTrack (20)378 onboard SATA RAID controller
    - RedHat 9 (customized) - 2.4.20-smp kernel (damn those RAID drivers)
    - Currently using the Promise.com's FastTrak TX4000/376/378/S150 TX Series
    Linux Driver

    The drives are mirrored for data security but the read speed we are gettting
    seems slow. This is especially the case reading a number of small files.
    "hdparm -tT /dev/sda" returns

    /dev/sda:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.13 seconds =984.62 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.39 seconds = 45.71 MB/sec

    I have looked around the net for harddrive optimization pointers but they
    all seem to be for single ATA/IDE drives. Just wondering if anyone had some
    ideas. For instance, would switching to the native ATARAID driver be a
    better option.. at least it would let us upgrade the kernel I guess.

    Thanks!

    Andrew

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    To reply please remove the NO & SPAM. from ReplyTo
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    Andrew Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9


    "Andrew" <com> wrote in message
    news:3fd02545$0$816$brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au.. . 
    check 
    gettting 


    What performance are you expecting from the seagate IDE drive ? see
    www.seagate.com for specs.

    eg
    http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_barracuda7200.7.pdf

    Sustained transfer rate , 32 to 58 megabytes a second.
    Perhaps the 200gb drive can do the 58 megabytes its fastest.

    So you get 45. thats only 13megabytes a second short of the manufacturers
    "max" specification.

    That aint bad.




     

    True. you are at the mercy of the hardware raid controller to get it right.
    But it doesnt seem to have any problem.


     

    No. That would mean the IDE buses had used twice, once to write to each
    disk.
    with the raid controller, the cpu writes once to the raid controller, and
    then the raid controller writes to both disks at once. Thats got to be
    better.


    Whats the problem with kernels ? Post seperately if you have trouble with
    kernels.
    Maybe someone else has got their kernel upgraded with support for the raid
    interface - maybe just a simple bit of manual patch repair or something.


    Leon


    Leon. Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    [Note follow-ups set to c.o.l.hardware. When cross-posting it is
    customary to set follow-ups to one group. See RFC 1855 "Netiquette
    Guidelines" for more information.]

    Andrew wrote: 

    [snip]
     

    Seems reasonable to me. 45MB/sec is pretty good for any single disk.
    Don't be consfused by SATA's theoretical max of 150MB/sec. That's bus
    speed. The 45MB/sec you're seeing is physical drive speed which is
    always *much* lower than theoretical bus speed.

    FWIW, 45MB/sec is about what I see out of some 10,000 RPM SCSI drives I
    have. It's a very respectable number.
    John-Paul Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Andrew wrote:

    ..... 
    With a standard ATA controller (UDMA-133) on a athlonXP2100/KT400 board I
    get values like

    /dev/hdb6:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 1204 MB in 2.00 seconds = 602.00 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 144 MB in 3.02 seconds = 47.68 MB/sec
    [rootwoodpecker walter]# vi /etc/raidtab
    [rootwoodpecker walter]# hdparm -tT /dev/md0

    /dev/md0:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 1148 MB in 2.00 seconds = 574.00 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 146 MB in 3.00 seconds = 48.67 MB/sec

    (md0 is made of hdb6 and hdd6, 2 maxtor 80G drives as software-raid1).
    So you see it's mostly a matter of drive read speed (while the buffer-cache
    speed differs a bit). Now, another portion of these drives, as raid0:

    /dev/hdd9:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 1220 MB in 2.00 seconds = 610.00 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 158 MB in 3.00 seconds = 52.67 MB/sec
    [rootwoodpecker walter]# hdparm -tT /dev/md3

    /dev/md3:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 1224 MB in 2.00 seconds = 612.00 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 262 MB in 3.01 seconds = 87.04 MB/sec

    You see no difference in buffer-cache speed (which means the bus is
    saturated here), but the two stripes add noticable read speed.
     
    As long as you don't use multi-stripe sets or raid0+1 sets, it simply makes
    no difference. Except, you can't yet tune a promise controller with hdparm.
    Btw., I have one 20376 and no SATA yet. It's single IDE-port appears to be
    awfully slow in comparison.
    --
    Longhorn error#4711: TCPA / NGSCB VIOLATION: Microsoft optical mouse
    detected penguin patterns on mousepad. Partition scan in progress
    to remove offending incompatible products. Reactivate your MS software
    (3 days grace period). [LinuxCounter#295241]
    Walter Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    [Followup-To: set]

    In comp.os.linux.setup Andrew <com> wrote:
    [..] 

    What filesystem is there? For small files, you should use
    reiserfs, turn off atime if you don't need it.
     
     

    That's pretty good, AFAIR I don't get much more out of 15K SCSI
    disks with hw RAID controller. But then, those hdparm tests don't
    tell much, real world I/O is different, you could try iozone or
    alike, search freshmeat.net, there are dozens of I/O benchmarks.

    To get more out of your disks, you need to have multiple RAID1/5
    disks and stripe over them RAID0 using lvm.

    Good luck

    --
    Michael Heiming

    Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
    inconvenience, but I get tons of SPAM
    Michael Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    In article <heiming.de>,
    Michael Heiming <michael+heiming.de> writes:

    |> That's pretty good, AFAIR I don't get much more out of 15K SCSI
    |> disks with hw RAID controller. But then, those hdparm tests don't
    |> tell much, real world I/O is different, you could try iozone or
    |> alike, search freshmeat.net, there are dozens of I/O benchmarks.

    Do you know a site which actually has comparisons of different configurations?
    The numbers are quite useless without any relation...

    |> To get more out of your disks, you need to have multiple RAID1/5
    |> disks and stripe over them RAID0 using lvm.

    /dev/sda:
    Timing buffered disk reads: 472 MB in 3.01 seconds = 156.86 MB/sec

    ;-) 3Ware SATA controller, RAID-5 with 5*250GB Maxtor disks. But I'd like to
    know how this setup compares to real/expensive RAID/NAS-systems...

    --
    Georg Acher, tum.de
    http://wwwbode.in.tum.de/~acher
    "Oh no, not again !" The bowl of petunias
    Georg Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Andrew --

    If you want info on single drive performance, try
    http://www.storagereview.com

    Best,

    Rohan Beckles
    net
    --
    Abit VP6
    Intel Pentium III "Coppermine" 1GHz (x2)
    Crucial 1GB SDRAM
    Seagate Barracuda 20.4GB
    GeForce 2 GTS Pro 64MB
    Linux Kernel 2.4.23
    Rohan Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Georg Acher <tum.de> wrote: 
    [..] 

    Yep, don't know of any, but beside that AFAIK you don't get IDE
    disks with 15K, the SCSI bus is what makes it obvious that if you
    need real I/O you should get SCSI. Is it even possible with IDE
    to add/remove hds to the system while running?
     
     
     

    While this looks good, it doesn't say much, hdparm reads the data
    AFAIK serial from the disk. On some db server there might be
    numerous queries/updates running at once, despite all caching
    happening you will need to write/read physical some time.

    --
    Michael Heiming

    Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
    inconvenience, but I get tons of SPAM
    Michael Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Andrew wrote: 

    As mentioned, disable access time updates. Also, it is my understanding
    that the SCSI bus allows for more concurrent access to the drive making it a
    better solution for high access solutions, like corporate file systems. The
    IDE bus can become the bottleneck in your configuration for high access
    solutions.

    ken k


    Ken Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9


    "Ken Kauffman" <headfog.com> wrote in message
    news:eB9Bb.46823$..
     

    The 

    Not really. A high-end IDE RAID card has an individual controller per drive.
    I very much like 3Ware's offerings, they're vastly more robust and more
    likely to work out of the box than Promise's slightly cheaper offerings, and
    they'll actually *tell you the chipset* which Promise somehow cannot manage
    to list on their data sheets. I consider "Promise" to be a broken one. Like
    3com, they're far more popular in OEM hardware than they ever deserved to
    be, primarily due to skimping on quality control and a support department,
    near as I can tell.

    3Ware actually delivers, as does Siig. I highly recommend saving the SCSI
    money and putting in 2U rack units of multiple, large, cheap IDE drives in
    RAID5. You'll save far more money and have fewer bottlenecks for failure:
    with the money saved, you can buy almost another full replacement for the
    entire IDE system next year.

    Take a look www.tomshardware.com for some interesting testing they've done
    in these configurations. SCSI is nominally faster, but a good SMP system
    with 200*8 = 1.4 Terabytes of RAID5 can easily saturate a 100 MHz link
    anyway, so you don't gain much going to SCSI or FireWire.


    Nico Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: 
    >
    > Not really. A high-end IDE RAID card has an individual controller per
    > drive. I very much like 3Ware's offerings, they're vastly more robust
    > and more likely to work out of the box than Promise's slightly
    > cheaper offerings, and they'll actually *tell you the chipset* which
    > Promise somehow cannot manage to list on their data sheets. I
    > consider "Promise" to be a broken one. Like 3com, they're far more
    > popular in OEM hardware than they ever deserved to be, primarily due
    > to skimping on quality control and a support department, near as I
    > can tell.
    >
    > 3Ware actually delivers, as does Siig. I highly recommend saving the
    > SCSI money and putting in 2U rack units of multiple, large, cheap IDE
    > drives in RAID5. You'll save far more money and have fewer
    > bottlenecks for failure: with the money saved, you can buy almost
    > another full replacement for the entire IDE system next year.
    >
    > Take a look www.tomshardware.com for some interesting testing they've
    > done in these configurations. SCSI is nominally faster, but a good
    > SMP system with 200*8 = 1.4 Terabytes of RAID5 can easily saturate a
    > 100 MHz link anyway, so you don't gain much going to SCSI or FireWire.[/ref]

    I agree that cost per dollar may provide the solution that is needed. My
    understanding is that the IDE interface itself can't handle the concurrent
    access that a SCSI bus provides and have consistently found that SCSI
    outperforms in file system applications. I am interested in testing the
    3Ware solution now given your notes. The other things that is often missed
    is that most SCSI hard drives themselves are manufactured for durability. A
    typical SCSI drive is a single platter with fewer moving parts. The drives
    tend to last significantly longer than their IDE counterparts. Again, it
    all depends on your application. But being on 24 hour call for a data
    center, I will not put IDE in a critical system. Also, does 3Ware have a
    hot swappable/rebuildable solution for IDE?

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just am weighing the offering at an
    enterprise class level.

    ken k



    Ken Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    In comp.os.linux.setup Ken Kauffman <headfog.com> wrote:
    [..]
     

    That would be interesting, also is there a tool to perform those
    tasks from Linux?

    There are quite a few good Linux SCSI controller, the most
    advanced I have used, allowing even controller BIOS updates
    while running, comes from adaptec. Those Ultra320 SCSI RAID
    controller work great.;)
     

    Ack, sometimes you get the feeling, if people run Linux they
    think they should even get some money out of it. But then the
    penguin loves good hardware.
    ;)

    You want at least redundant/hot-swappable power supplies, fans
    and disks at an enterprise class level.

    --
    Michael Heiming

    Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
    inconvenience, but I get tons of SPAM
    Michael Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Michael Heiming wrote: 
    >
    > That would be interesting, also is there a tool to perform those
    > tasks from Linux?
    >
    > There are quite a few good Linux SCSI controller, the most
    > advanced I have used, allowing even controller BIOS updates
    > while running, comes from adaptec. Those Ultra320 SCSI RAID
    > controller work great.;)

    >
    > Ack, sometimes you get the feeling, if people run Linux they
    > think they should even get some money out of it. But then the
    > penguin loves good hardware.
    > ;)
    >
    > You want at least redundant/hot-swappable power supplies, fans
    > and disks at an enterprise class level.[/ref]

    FYI. The 3ware is hot swappable. I answer my own question. But I am still
    concerned about drive construction and reliability in a data center.

    ken k



    Ken Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9


    "Ken Kauffman" <headfog.com> wrote in message
    news:BHjBb.49747$..
     
    missed 


    I've helped *design* a number of enterprise systems, and been the poor
    hardware/software interface specialist that some rather large data centers
    called when things went bad. Several vendors create hot-swappable IDE based
    systems, 3Ware makes high-quality IDE/RAID cards that a number of them use.
    SATA is increasing in popularity due to the simpler and smaller cabling,
    which makes a *BIG* difference for cooling and air flow in a densely packed
    system, although I haven't looked for hot-swappable SATA drives.

    In most cases, even a large RAID5 system has its bottle neck elsewhere, such
    as the network interface itself. The nominally higher RPM's of contemporary
    SCSI systems can help seek time a bit, but for streaming data or file
    transfers of even modest size, RAID5 is very much your friend.

    The reliability difference between IDE and SCSI has been evaporating for
    years: the IDE has really gotten quite good from reputable vendors, and
    after the IBM Deathstar debacle and other SCSI vendors committing similar
    errors, I'm more likely to trust redundant hardware/systems rather than SCSI
    reliability.


    Nico Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote: 
    >
    > I've helped *design* a number of enterprise systems, and been the poor
    > hardware/software interface specialist that some rather large data
    > centers called when things went bad. Several vendors create
    > hot-swappable IDE based systems, 3Ware makes high-quality IDE/RAID
    > cards that a number of them use. SATA is increasing in popularity due
    > to the simpler and smaller cabling, which makes a *BIG* difference
    > for cooling and air flow in a densely packed system, although I
    > haven't looked for hot-swappable SATA drives.
    >
    > In most cases, even a large RAID5 system has its bottle neck
    > elsewhere, such as the network interface itself. The nominally higher
    > RPM's of contemporary SCSI systems can help seek time a bit, but for
    > streaming data or file transfers of even modest size, RAID5 is very
    > much your friend.
    >
    > The reliability difference between IDE and SCSI has been evaporating
    > for years: the IDE has really gotten quite good from reputable
    > vendors, and after the IBM Deathstar debacle and other SCSI vendors
    > committing similar errors, I'm more likely to trust redundant
    > hardware/systems rather than SCSI reliability.[/ref]

    I agree with your closing arguments and the advantage of SATA cabling on
    cooling. I understand the advantage of RAID5 .. as well as its associated
    overhead compared to a RAID0+1 system, which is what I use for the high
    performance file stores -- particularly for Oracle system data stores.

    regards

    ken k



    Ken Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    >>"Ken Kauffman" <headfog.com> wrote in message 
    > all depends on your application. But being on 24 hour call for a data
    > center, I will not put IDE in a critical system. Also, does 3Ware have a
    > hot swappable/rebuildable solution for IDE?[/ref]

    3Ware controllers have hot spare and automatic rebuild. Hot swappable also
    depends on the PCI bus/motherboard/driver combination, not just the controller.

    I've used a 3Ware 6400 (ATA/66) in a small server for several years: 2.2.x
    and 2.4.x kernels (which include the 3W driver) as an individual drive
    controller, stripe and mirror sets, and a RAID 5 with spare configuration.
    I've had zero problems with the controller in any configuration.

    As for 3w performance, striping yields near 2x overall performance with the
    usual danger of losing a disk. Mirroring works as expected except that the
    mirror pairs are not portable to other controllers. RAID 5 was a tad slow.
    In general a 10-15% performance increase over other controllers. For
    example, Promise U/66 controller on the identical setup is 15% slower,
    requires 3x CPU and tends to lock up under load.
     

    If you really want enterprise class go with offerings from Netapp, IBM or
    similar but be willing to pay.

    rgds,
    tim.

    3W + ancient KA7 + .18u Athlon 900MHz, software RAID 0, 2.4.23 kernel:

    [timabit tim]# time hdparm -tT /dev/md0

    /dev/md0:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 664 MB in 2.01 seconds = 330.35 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 206 MB in 3.01 seconds = 68.44 MB/sec
    0.260u 3.430s 0:15.19 24.2% 0+0k 0+0io 1130pf+0w
    ....
    PCI: Found IRQ 15 for device 00:0d.0
    scsi1 : Found a 3ware Storage Controller at 0xe400, IRQ: 15, P-chip: 5.7
    scsi1 : 3ware Storage Controller
    Vendor: 3ware Model: Logical Disk 0 Rev: 1.0
    Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 00
    Vendor: 3ware Model: Logical Disk 1 Rev: 1.0
    Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 00
    Attached scsi disk sda at scsi1, channel 0, id 0, lun 0
    Attached scsi disk sdb at scsi1, channel 0, id 1, lun 0
    SCSI device sda: 40188960 512-byte hdwr sectors (20577 MB)
    sda: sda1 sda2 sda3 < sda5 sda6 sda7 sda8 >
    SCSI device sdb: 40188960 512-byte hdwr sectors (20577 MB)
    sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3 < sdb5 sdb6 sdb7 sdb8 >
    ....
    [timabit tim]# cat /proc/mdstat
    Personalities : [raid0]
    read_ahead 1024 sectors
    md0 : active raid0 sdb5[1] sda5[0]
    4192768 blocks 32k chunks

    md1 : active raid0 sdb6[1] sda6[0]
    2425600 blocks 32k chunks

    md2 : active raid0 sdb7[1] sda7[0]
    12707200 blocks 64k chunks

    md3 : active raid0 sdb8[1] sda8[0]
    20113152 blocks 64k chunks

    unused devices: <none>

    (backed up with rsync snapshots)

    emilio Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Ken Kauffman <headfog.com> wrote:
    [..]
     

    Yep, hot swap-able, but what about adding or removing drives,
    configuring raid sets from Linux, rescanning the bus to add new
    disks while running, like you can do with SCSI if you happen to
    have the proper tool, which are available for many SCSI RAID
    controller.

    --
    Michael Heiming

    Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
    inconvenience, but I get tons of SPAM
    Michael Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    I have a similar system:

    ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe mobo
    P4 3Ghz (HypThrd)
    1GB DDR 400
    Promise FastTrack S150 SX4 - 4 port RAID5 SerialATA controller card
    HotSwap cage for Serial ATA with 4 bays
    4 Seagate 120GB SATA HD (3 in RAID-5 config + 1 as primary boot connected to
    the SATA on board).
    RedHat 9- 2.4.23 kernel.
    My hdparm speeds range between 51 MB/sec to 71 MB/sec.

    hdparm -tT /dev/hdc (my 1 primary boot conntected to the mobo)

    /dev/hdc:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.13 seconds =984.62 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.15 seconds = 55.65 MB/sec

    the RAID-5 hard drives:

    hdparm -tT /dev/lvmvol/var

    /dev/lvmvol/var:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.13 seconds =984.62 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.15 seconds = 55.65 MB/sec

    Identical values.
    If you can boost them in any way,. I would love to know how.

    -Alon.

    "Andrew" <com> כתב
    בהודעה:3fd02545$0$816$brisbane.pipenetworks.c
    om.au... 
    check 
    gettting 
    some 


    Alon Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Try

    hdparm -m1 -c1 -d1 /dev/hdX

    Kiran
    On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:31:12 +0200, Alon Solell wrote:
     

    Kiran Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Harddrive performance: Promise SATA RAID under Redhat 9

    Kiran Reddy wrote: 


    Hi try following along with this little story...

    ----

    In the English speaking world we read left to right, top to bottom. [/ref][/ref]


    ----

    Now lets try it again WITHOUT top posting...

    ----
     
    > > When they top post.[/ref]
    > Why is top posting so hard to read?[/ref]
    In the English speaking world we read left to right, top to bottom.

    ----

    If your newsreader automatically places your cursor at the top when
    responding I suggest you do one of two things:

    1. Get a newsreader that adheres to Usenet norms.
    2. Move your cursor to the bottom of the post BEFORE you start typing.

    I know that both of these does require some effort on your part but
    because of the problems and nature of Usenet not everyone sees all posts
    in a particular thread in the right order or or even at all.

    If you are are effort deficient (read too lazy) not to do either of my
    suggestions then don't be surprised when people start ignoring you
    and/or the thread.

    --
    Regards,
    Harry Phillips
    --- Failure is not an option,
    it comes bundled with your Microsoft product.

    Harry Guest

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