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How long do you all spend on design? - Macromedia Dreamweaver

Hi, just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side when doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for?? I seem to be able to spend a looong time on the design, but then feel it's too much time to charge for. Last site I did I spent about 2 days (16 hours) before I was happy with it, but only billed half that. I'm not that confident on the design side so it takes awhile before I'm happy with it. Is this average or an outrageously long time?? Or ...

  1. #1

    Default How long do you all spend on design?

    Hi,
    just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side when
    doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for?? I seem
    to be able to spend a looong time on the design, but then feel it's too much
    time to charge for. Last site I did I spent about 2 days (16 hours) before I
    was happy with it, but only billed half that. I'm not that confident on the
    design side so it takes awhile before I'm happy with it. Is this average or
    an outrageously long time?? Or maybe even not long at all?

    Karen J




    Karen J Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re:How long do you all spend on design?

    I think spending 2 days to get it right is just fine, I have often spent longer (and I mean MUCH longer!!!). For me alot depents on how much the client is involved. As design is based TOTALLY on opinion the old saying "How long is a peice of string" comes to mind. Don't forget, that if you don't bill them you won't get the money. If in doubt Charge More, they may notice, and argue, and then, you may reduce.


    Thanks In Advance
    Patrick
    Patrick Webworks webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re:How long do you all spend on design?

    Two days is just about the time i spend on a layout, sometimes more, sometimes less.. If you got a client that keeps changing his mind and wants everything different than last time you spoke to him, charge him!
    You say youonly charged one day.. why did you spend two days then? It just didnt look good enough? The second day you probably made it better for your own satisfaction but also so that he had a very good looking website.. at the end, he will profit from it, so charge him. You are doing the work for him, so he should pay for it. You can always go down a bit when he starts complaining. But 50% before he starts complaining.. Thats a lot!


    mrjansuh Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: How long do you all spend on design?

    Karen J wrote:
    > Hi,
    > just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side when
    > doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for?? I seem
    > to be able to spend a looong time on the design, but then feel it's too much
    > time to charge for. Last site I did I spent about 2 days (16 hours) before I
    > was happy with it, but only billed half that.
    We usually spend as much time as we put on the contract the client
    signed. And we bill for it. If we need more time because the client
    changes his mind all the time, we have him OK that, and then bill for it
    too. Nobody thanks you if you work for free.

    > I'm not that confident on the design side so it takes awhile before
    > I'm happy with it.
    Does this mean you're not all that experienced, or that you're just
    extremely critical of your work? If you're not experienced, you might
    consider giving your client a "learning discount", e.g. only charge 3/4
    of your time. I think that would be fair to all involved. But if you're
    just extremely critical of your work, charge it all - they hired you
    because you're a perfectionist.


    Matthias

    Matthias Gutfeldt Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: How long do you all spend on design?

    I agree with the others. Design takes time. It is the hardest part because
    you usually are starting from scratch or trying to make a client's far out
    wishes not only reality, but WOW reality. Creativity takes effort and hours.
    Otherwise everyone would be doing it. Charge for your talent. If you don't
    you are only cheating yourself and your talent's value :-)



    "Karen J" <karen.wardxtra.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:bf2ua8$mad$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Hi,
    > just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side
    when
    > doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for?? I
    seem
    > to be able to spend a looong time on the design, but then feel it's too
    much
    > time to charge for. Last site I did I spent about 2 days (16 hours) before
    I
    > was happy with it, but only billed half that. I'm not that confident on
    the
    > design side so it takes awhile before I'm happy with it. Is this average
    or
    > an outrageously long time?? Or maybe even not long at all?
    >
    > Karen J
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Webfairy Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: How long do you all spend on design?

    In article <bf2ua8$mad$1forums.macromedia.com>, [email]karen.wardxtra.co.nz[/email]
    says...
    > just interested to know how long other people spend on the design side when
    > doing a new website. And how much of this do you actually bill for??
    4 weeks for my last site. [url]http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ft/[/url]
    I don't bill for anything until I have a design the client is happy
    with. I made 6 different mockups and one complete site until that
    happened.

    When we finally settled on a 'look' I spent 4 weeks designing the
    graphics (140), database (9 tables, 62 columns), populating it (270
    products, by hand, they had no existing data I could use), designing the
    site pages, admin pages and content management system and correcting
    product photos (80 so far).

    Now they're not sure if they want to pay my measly sum of $3k for it,
    saying it's too expensive. They're also backing out of the next 3 sites
    I already starting designing for them.

    I'm done creating sites for friends :(

    --
    Regards,
    Ian Firth
    Ian Firth Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: How long do you all spend on design?

    Ian Firth <ifdivsoft.com> wrote in news:MPG.197fd7856f21e2e9896f7
    forums.macromedia.com:
    > Now they're not sure if they want to pay my measly sum of $3k for it,
    > saying it's too expensive. They're also backing out of the next 3 sites
    > I already starting designing for them.
    >
    > I'm done creating sites for friends :(
    I feel your pain, Ian. $3,000 is a bargain for all that you produced - they
    should feel lucky at getting such a bargain.


    --
    Steve
    Hong Kong
    Steve Fleischer Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re:How long do you all spend on design?

    Karen,

    My solution is to keep a detailed time log, and write down every hour I spend working on a project and exactly what I did when.

    I go back and look at these logs when I am quoting a new job, and I now have a good idea what to charge.

    Sometimes I spend 20 hours on conceptualization, sometimes I dive right into development and the design arrives on it own. Either way, I charge for the finished product (and the number of estimated hours agreed upon in my written proposal)

    I sometimes find that I have spent too much time "tweaking," and I have to make up for lost time by becoming very efficent with development.

    Another good idea is to create a "swipe file" of designs that you like, using these designs for inspiration.

    I agree with an earlier comment: you're the web designer, and you should be paid for your creativity and your dev expertise. Just make sure that can justify that time to a client with a time log if asked.

    I recommend that you get a copy of Cameron Foote's "the Business Side of Creativity." Lots of good information that will help you with issues like this.

    Good luck,

    hair on fire guy



    haironfireguy Guest

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