Super drive. Powerbooks are simply not available with CD-ROM only. I won't be playing games so graphic[quote] > capabilities don't need to be cutting edge. >[/quote] Then seriously consider the g3 machine. A 900 MHz G3 will be about the same as or faster than a G4 at 867 for most things. [quote] > It seems to come down to G3 vs G4 and is it worth the price > difference.[/quote] IMO the benefits of the G4 machine (and there are some) are not justified by the price difference, but it all depends on you. Clearly there are many people for whom the benefits do justify the expenditure. [quote] > > Comments? > > Yaro[/quote] [allowsmilie] => 1 [showsignature] => 0 [ipaddress] => [iconid] => 0 [visible] => 1 [attach] => 0 [infraction] => 0 [reportthreadid] => 0 [isusenetpost] => 1 [msgid] => [ref] => <91c9269e.0307190528.5bd235f@posting.google.com> <91c9269e.0307191628.3f2daf60@posting.google.com> [htmlstate] => on_nl2br [postusername] => Watt [ip] => watt@knott.hous [isdeleted] => 0 [usergroupid] => [membergroupids] => [displaygroupid] => [password] => [passworddate] => [email] => [styleid] => [parentemail] => [homepage] => [icq] => [aim] => [yahoo] => [msn] => [skype] => [showvbcode] => [showbirthday] => [usertitle] => [customtitle] => [joindate] => [daysprune] => [lastvisit] => [lastactivity] => [lastpost] => [lastpostid] => [posts] => [reputation] => [reputationlevelid] => [timezoneoffset] => [pmpopup] => [avatarid] => [avatarrevision] => [profilepicrevision] => [sigpicrevision] => [options] => [akvbghsfs_optionsfield] => [birthday] => [birthday_search] => [maxposts] => [startofweek] => [referrerid] => [languageid] => [emailstamp] => [threadedmode] => [autosubscribe] => [pmtotal] => [pmunread] => [salt] => [ipoints] => [infractions] => [warnings] => [infractiongroupids] => [infractiongroupid] => [adminoptions] => [profilevisits] => [friendcount] => [friendreqcount] => [vmunreadcount] => [vmmoderatedcount] => [socgroupinvitecount] => [socgroupreqcount] => [pcunreadcount] => [pcmoderatedcount] => [gmmoderatedcount] => [assetposthash] => [fbuserid] => [fbjoindate] => [fbname] => [logintype] => [fbaccesstoken] => [newrepcount] => [vbseo_likes_in] => [vbseo_likes_out] => [vbseo_likes_unread] => [temp] => [field1] => [field2] => [field3] => [field4] => [field5] => [subfolders] => [pmfolders] => [buddylist] => [ignorelist] => [signature] => [searchprefs] => [rank] => [icontitle] => [iconpath] => [avatarpath] => [hascustomavatar] => 0 [avatardateline] => [avwidth] => [avheight] => [edit_userid] => [edit_username] => [edit_dateline] => [edit_reason] => [hashistory] => [pagetext_html] => [hasimages] => [signatureparsed] => [sighasimages] => [sigpic] => [sigpicdateline] => [sigpicwidth] => [sigpicheight] => [postcount] => 9 [islastshown] => [isfirstshown] => [attachments] => [allattachments] => ) --> iBook vs PowerBook - Mac Portable

iBook vs PowerBook - Mac Portable

Dera BE - >>>>> "BetterEdit" == BetterEdit com <adminbetteredit.com> writes: BetterEdit> I need a portable only for the basics, a bit of web BetterEdit> design/graphic manipulation, email, word processing BetterEdit> and web surfing. I won't be playing games, I want OSX BetterEdit> and I want portability, not 17inc monitors. iBook will be more than sufficient. This reply may seem terse, but if you simply trying to decide which mac will work for you most cost-effectively than explaining all the intricacies of hardware interactions contributing to performance is overkill. The requirements you specify above would be met admirably by a Powerbook ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    Dera BE -
    >>>>> "BetterEdit" == BetterEdit com <adminbetteredit.com> writes:
    BetterEdit> I need a portable only for the basics, a bit of web
    BetterEdit> design/graphic manipulation, email, word processing
    BetterEdit> and web surfing. I won't be playing games, I want OSX
    BetterEdit> and I want portability, not 17inc monitors.

    iBook will be more than sufficient.

    This reply may seem terse, but if you simply trying to decide which
    mac will work for you most cost-effectively than explaining all the
    intricacies of hardware interactions contributing to performance is
    overkill.

    The requirements you specify above would be met admirably by a
    Powerbook Duo (discontinued years ago).

    Yours - Billy

    ================================================== ==========
    William Goee [email]goeegoedsole.com[/email]
    [url]http://www.goedsole.com:8080[/url]
    ================================================== ==========

    Lest we forget:

    Good management involves five activities:

    o Facilitate your staff's efforts by removing organizational
    impediments.

    o Identify each staff member's strengths and goals
    and veer their responsibilities towards them.

    o Assign responsibility with commensurate authority.

    o Set realistic expectations in your customers.

    o Evangelize your services.

    - William Goee
    William Goedicke Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    BetterEdit.com wrote:
    > I'm a first time mac buyer and I am looking for a portable to replace my
    > crashing windows computers as I have heard mac is very reliable. I've
    > been trying to first establish the chronology/glossary of all the
    > different type of macs, and what they are designed for, but even this
    > has been difficult. Are there any websites out there that may help?
    >
    > I need a portable only for the basics, a bit of web design/graphic
    > manipulation, email, word processing and web surfing. I won't be playing
    > games, I want OSX and I want portability, not 17inc monitors.
    >
    > Based on the apple.com site, of the new models I have a choice
    > between an iBook or the PowerBook. What is the difference - size? At
    > this stage the iBook looks a lot cheaper for my needs, but is there a
    > significant difference in application speed or features?
    >
    > Any help appreciated.
    Sounds like an iBook is the way to go based on the needs you describe.

    iBook is the "consumer" line and Powerbook is the "professional line"
    and accordingly has more processing power (G4 instead of G3 processors -
    important if you have significant graphic design or video editing needs
    - clock for clock they're otherwise similar speed), better video cards,
    usually more disc space, options like Blutooth, Firewire 800 and Airport
    Extreme on the 12" and 17" models, more video-out options (on the iBook
    a second display will display the same thing as the built-in; on the
    Powerbook you can have one desktop continue from the built-in screen to
    the external monitor); and an optional DVD burner.

    As for form factor, the 12" Powerbook is very similar to the 12" iBook,
    but both other Powerbook models have a larger footprint than any iBook.
    Finally, since the iBook was developed with the education market in
    mind, its build is more rugged than the Powerbooks' (though the 12" PB
    may be an exception here).

    (Also note that the only differences between 12" and 14" iBooks are more
    weight and longer battery life in the larger model - both have the same
    1024 x 768 screen resolution.)

    Watt Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    In article <m3fzl2k0r4.fsfmail.goedsole.com>,
    William Goee <goeegoedsole.com> wrote:
    > Dera BE -
    >
    > >>>>> "BetterEdit" == BetterEdit com <adminbetteredit.com> writes:
    >
    > BetterEdit> I need a portable only for the basics, a bit of web
    > BetterEdit> design/graphic manipulation, email, word processing
    > BetterEdit> and web surfing. I won't be playing games, I want OSX
    > BetterEdit> and I want portability, not 17inc monitors.
    >
    > iBook will be more than sufficient.
    Agree (iBook owner and previously a PowerBook owner, heavy user for web
    access, word processing, TeXing, and scientific computation using
    Mathematica.) Spend the money you save on the main machine on
    interesting peripherals.

    One specific difference is that PowerBooks allow having an "extended
    desktop" that can spread from the PowerBook screen across one or more
    external monitors. iBooks only allow "video mirroring", i.e. you see
    exactly the same view on an external monitor as on the iBook screen.
    IBook is thus more limited -- but also simpler: the video mirroring is
    always on, no complex settings to play with, and connecting to an
    external monitor or projector always works, instantly.
    AES/newspost Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    BetterEdit.com wrote:
    > Based on the apple.com site, of the new models I have a choice
    > between an iBook or the PowerBook. What is the difference - size? At
    > this stage the iBook looks a lot cheaper for my needs, but is there a
    > significant difference in application speed or features?
    The 12" Powerbook is smaller in every dimension and lighter. It's also
    much faster, including things that will definitely affect you.

    You'll have to decide for yourself if it is worth the price difference
    to you. Roughly an extra $600 buys you:

    - A much faster system.
    - An optical drive that can play DVDs and burn CDs (the one in the iBook
    is strictly a CD ROM).
    - A 40 gig drive, instead of 30.
    - Double the memory out of the box.

    To me, the Powerbook looks like a better deal but you'll have to decide
    for yourself. Maybe the more expensive of the 12" iBook would suit you
    more, it at least has the same optical drive and similiar hard drive. If
    you go for an iBook, though, you'll need to include a memory upgrade to
    256 MB in the price.

    Steven Fisher Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    Thanks everyone for your replies thus far. You definitely helped, but
    I have some more questions.

    As I mentioned, web design/html coding, basic graphic manupilation,
    email/web surfing and word processing will be my main uses. The main
    reasons I am fed up with windows is the slow, unreliable operating
    system. I want my mac to be crash resistant and the os and
    applications to run quick with the hiccups only coming from me in the
    form of user error, not computer error. That may be unrealistic, but
    as close I can get to that computer utopia would be ideal.

    Another question - normally I draw on my network of friends to get the
    software together to support my computers. This may not be as easy for
    a mac, so what extra software am I going to need to purchase? I need
    basic text editor for web design, something like ultraedit will do, I
    don't need a dreamweaver. I usually use Paint Shop Pro for graphics,
    so I will need to investigate mac compatibility or consider getting
    and learning photoshop. I need to create PDFs so I need Acrobat, MS
    Word for wordprocessing, I assume IE is free and that new browser for
    macs is free too?, any solid email client, FTP client...

    I am based in Australia so I am shopping on apple.com.au for price
    quotes at the moment.

    I'm not going lower then 384MB Ram, so I have added that to the total
    cost.

    IBOOK
    800 MHz PowerPC G3
    512K L2 cache 800MHz
    128MB SDRAM memory
    30GB Ultra ATA drive
    ATI Mobility Radeon 7500
    32MB DDR video memory
    CD-ROM
    Built-in 56K v.92 modem
    AirPort ready
    Up to 5 hr. battery life

    $1850
    + 256 Ram $187

    Total = $2037

    My main concerns here are the lack of ethernet (not airport), and no
    indication of how much extra that would be. Also as some people
    mentioned to me, the possibility of the g3 being insufficient for my
    needs in the near future. The CD-Rom will do, I don't need a CDR as my
    desktop has one, and DVD doesn't interest me.

    POWERBOOK
    12.1-inch TFT Display
    1024x768 resolution
    867MHz PowerPC G4
    256MB DDR266 SDRAM
    40GB Ultra ATA/100
    Combo Drive
    NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go
    32MB DDR video memory
    10/100BASE-T Ethernet
    FireWire 400
    AirPort Extreme Ready
    Bluetooth built-in
    Composite & S-Video out

    $3099
    + 128Ram $99

    Total = $3200

    My main concern here is the price. Is it possible to approach a
    reseller and downgrade things to reduce the cost? For example swap the
    combo drive for a CDROM etc. I won't be playing games so graphic
    capabilities don't need to be cutting edge.

    It seems to come down to G3 vs G4 and is it worth the price
    difference.

    Comments?

    Yaro
    BetterEdit.com Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:05:49 GMT, Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net>
    wrote:
    >BetterEdit.com wrote:
    >
    >> Based on the apple.com site, of the new models I have a choice
    >> between an iBook or the PowerBook. What is the difference - size? At
    >> this stage the iBook looks a lot cheaper for my needs, but is there a
    >> significant difference in application speed or features?
    Not really, except the DVD and Altivec app speed. And the PB looks
    better. But for 60% more money, I don't think it's worthwhile.
    >The 12" Powerbook is smaller in every dimension and lighter. It's also
    >much faster, including things that will definitely affect you.
    >
    >You'll have to decide for yourself if it is worth the price difference
    >to you. Roughly an extra $600 buys you:
    >
    >- A much faster system.
    .....if you do things stressing graphics or the G4/altivec subsystem.
    Otherwise, it shouldn't be that different.
    [url]http://barefeats.com/pb17.html[/url] shows some rather interesting results.
    Extrapolate from 800 to 900 mhz at will. The only thing the g3 fares
    badly on is memory subsystem; since this isn't an end unto itself, it
    isn't terribly distressing given the good results of the other tests.

    [url]http://macspeedzone.com/html/hardware/machine/comparison/portable/powerbook/index.shtml[/url]
    shows more tests - for a lot of what is done daily there isn't that
    much of a difference - the poster needs to judge if the combo drive
    justifies a more expensive iBook ($300) or a PB ($600).
    >- An optical drive that can play DVDs and burn CDs (the one in the iBook
    >is strictly a CD ROM).
    The $999 iBook has just the CD. Step up to $1299 (vs. $1599 - only
    $300 now) and you get the combo drive.
    >- A 40 gig drive, instead of 30.
    >- Double the memory out of the box.
    True.
    >To me, the Powerbook looks like a better deal but you'll have to decide
    >for yourself. Maybe the more expensive of the 12" iBook would suit you
    >more, it at least has the same optical drive and similiar hard drive. If
    >you go for an iBook, though, you'll need to include a memory upgrade to
    >256 MB in the price.
    Unless one must play DVDs (I don't see the fascination; I have a DVD
    player at the house already), or one uses AltiVec-enhanced software, I
    don't see a big reason to jump to the PB.

    The iBook at $999 seems to be a pretty good deal; an even better one
    might be to get one that's one generation old (some stores still have
    them for $100-$150 off). In either case, spend $125 or so and slap a
    512MB chip in there. For $1125 or so (or $1025) you'll have a nice
    little machine.

    You'll also lose less when you sell it in a year or two...

    I typically tell people that unless they know they need XYZ feature,
    think twice before spending more money to buy it.
    foo Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    On 19 Jul 2003 17:28:27 -0700, [email]adminbetteredit.com[/email] (BetterEdit.com)
    wrote:
    >As I mentioned, web design/html coding, basic graphic manupilation,
    >email/web surfing and word processing will be my main uses. The main
    >reasons I am fed up with windows is the slow, unreliable operating
    >system.
    Install XP, home or pro. Avoid 95/98/ME.
    >I want my mac to be crash resistant and the os and
    >applications to run quick with the hiccups only coming from me in the
    >form of user error, not computer error. That may be unrealistic, but
    >as close I can get to that computer utopia would be ideal.
    Good luck. :)
    >Another question - normally I draw on my network of friends to get the
    >software together to support my computers. This may not be as easy for
    >a mac, so what extra software am I going to need to purchase? I need
    >basic text editor for web design, something like ultraedit will do, I
    >don't need a dreamweaver. I usually use Paint Shop Pro for graphics,
    >so I will need to investigate mac compatibility or consider getting
    >and learning photoshop. I need to create PDFs so I need Acrobat, MS
    >Word for wordprocessing, I assume IE is free and that new browser for
    >macs is free too?, any solid email client, FTP client...
    You essentially told us you pirate software. That's not good.
    Whichever machine you choose, please buy your software. PSP is
    available for OS X (or in a few days or a week or two). BBEdit is a
    good web-tool text editor, but it might be overkill for you. Word is
    $400 in Office v.X. Browser, mail, ftp clients are typically free or
    very low cost.
    >I am based in Australia so I am shopping on apple.com.au for price
    >quotes at the moment.
    >
    >I'm not going lower then 384MB Ram, so I have added that to the total
    >cost.
    >
    >IBOOK
    >800 MHz PowerPC G3
    >512K L2 cache 800MHz
    >128MB SDRAM memory
    >30GB Ultra ATA drive
    >ATI Mobility Radeon 7500
    >32MB DDR video memory
    >CD-ROM
    >Built-in 56K v.92 modem
    >AirPort ready
    >Up to 5 hr. battery life
    >
    >$1850
    >+ 256 Ram $187
    >
    >Total = $2037
    You'd be wise to get RAM elsewhere. Apple's RAM is very expensive.
    >My main concerns here are the lack of ethernet (not airport), and no
    >indication of how much extra that would be.
    Ethernet 10/100 is built into every iBook.
    >Also as some people
    >mentioned to me, the possibility of the g3 being insufficient for my
    >needs in the near future. The CD-Rom will do, I don't need a CDR as my
    >desktop has one, and DVD doesn't interest me.
    Then get just the basic iBook. The G3 should be fine if you aren't
    doing video work or games.
    >POWERBOOK
    >12.1-inch TFT Display
    >1024x768 resolution
    >867MHz PowerPC G4
    >256MB DDR266 SDRAM
    >40GB Ultra ATA/100
    >Combo Drive
    >NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go
    >32MB DDR video memory
    >10/100BASE-T Ethernet
    >FireWire 400
    >AirPort Extreme Ready
    >Bluetooth built-in
    >Composite & S-Video out
    >
    >$3099
    >+ 128Ram $99
    >
    >Total = $3200
    >My main concern here is the price. Is it possible to approach a
    >reseller and downgrade things to reduce the cost? For example swap the
    >combo drive for a CDROM etc. I won't be playing games so graphic
    >capabilities don't need to be cutting edge.
    No.
    >It seems to come down to G3 vs G4 and is it worth the price
    >difference.
    >Comments?
    >Yaro
    For what I've heard you talk about, I see little reason for a G4.
    foo Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    In article <91c9269e.0307191628.3f2daf60posting.google.com >,
    [email]adminbetteredit.com[/email] (BetterEdit.com) wrote:
    > I need
    > basic text editor for web design, something like ultraedit will do, I
    > don't need a dreamweaver.
    There's a number of text editors that will do html. (free/shareware)
    > I usually use Paint Shop Pro for graphics,
    > so I will need to investigate mac compatibility or consider getting
    > and learning photoshop.
    GraphicsConverter will do many things, take a look at it (shareware).
    > I need to create PDFs so I need Acrobat,
    You'll get pdf's from Mac OSX's print dialog.
    > MS Word for wordprocessing
    Do you? Maybe, but there is a number of other products for free or low
    cost (SimpleText, Mellel, openoffice).
    > I assume IE is free and that new browser for
    > macs is free too?, any solid email client, FTP client...
    >
    Sure:
    Safari as the free opensource browser adopted by Apple
    Mail (Apple's mail application, free), Eudora, ...
    ftp: command line: ftp, or take a look at Interarchy etc
    ....
    > IBOOK
    ....
    > My main concerns here are the lack of ethernet (not airport), and no
    > indication of how much extra that would be.
    You'll get an ethernet port built in (standard).
    > Also as some people
    > mentioned to me, the possibility of the g3 being insufficient for my
    > needs in the near future.
    G4 ist not *that* much faster, except for coding MP3, and applying
    filters in graphics programs etc.
    > The CD-Rom will do, I don't need a CDR as my
    > desktop has one, and DVD doesn't interest me.
    CD-R is just nice to have.

    I write this on a Pismo Powerbook (G3/500 MHz, 3 years old, 384 MB RAM)
    running 10.2.6, very useable.

    Marc

    --
    Marc Heusser - Zurich, Switzerland
    Coaching - Consulting - Counselling - Psychotherapy
    [url]http://www.heusser.com[/url]
    remove the obvious CHEERS and MERCIAL... from the reply address
    to reply via e-mail
    Marc Heusser Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    BetterEdit.com wrote:
    > Another question - normally I draw on my network of friends to get the
    > software together to support my computers. This may not be as easy for
    > a mac, so what extra software am I going to need to purchase? I need
    > basic text editor for web design,
    BBedit Lite (free) will probably suffice ([url]www.barebones.com[/url]). If not,
    the full program is not very expensive. Or you can use any number of
    other free or shareware editors.

    something like ultraedit will do, I
    > don't need a dreamweaver. I usually use Paint Shop Pro for graphics,
    > so I will need to investigate mac compatibility or consider getting
    > and learning photoshop.
    Can't help you much here. Appleworks (bundled with iBooks, not
    Powerbooks) has basic graphic manipulation capabilities, as does iPhoto
    (free).

    I need to create PDFs so I need Acrobat,

    If you don't need to do anything fancy (merge or split PDFs, add links,
    create forms, set special font embedding or graphics compression
    options, etc.) then the OS X print dialog will do the job.


    MS
    > Word for wordprocessing,
    You'll probably find that a complete Office installation is about the
    same price as or cheaper than Word alone. (In which case you'll have the
    choice of Entourage as a mail client, if you want.) AppleWorks also has
    a reasonable WP module, though if you need advanced features like track
    changes (or if you have to preserve Word formatting in client-supplied
    material) you'll need Word. There are others available, too.

    I assume IE is free and that new browser for
    > macs is free too?,
    Yes, Safari is free and probably now preinstalled. And it's much, much
    better than IE. (Which is also free.) Mozilla also works well; can't say
    one way or another about the others, but there are several.
    >any solid email client,
    I find the free version of Eudora suffices; you can also use the full
    version without spending money, but it's adware (pay the $$, the ads
    vanish). Apple's Mail is pretty good too.
    >FTP client...
    >
    There are several shareware programs with graphical front ends, or you
    can just use the built-in Unix ftp from the command line.

    > I am based in Australia so I am shopping on apple.com.au for price
    > quotes at the moment.
    >
    > I'm not going lower then 384MB Ram, so I have added that to the total
    > cost.
    >
    As others have said, buy your RAM elsewhere and max it out if possible.
    > IBOOK
    > 800 MHz PowerPC G3
    > 512K L2 cache 800MHz
    > 128MB SDRAM memory
    > 30GB Ultra ATA drive
    If there's an option to get a larger drive, you should do it. Upgrading
    this part of an iBook is a major pain.
    > ATI Mobility Radeon 7500
    > 32MB DDR video memory
    > CD-ROM
    > Built-in 56K v.92 modem
    > AirPort ready
    > Up to 5 hr. battery life
    >
    > $1850
    > + 256 Ram $187
    >
    > Total = $2037
    >
    > My main concerns here are the lack of ethernet (not airport), and no
    > indication of how much extra that would be.
    As others have mentioned, it's got 10/100 built in (RJ-45 - no dongles).

    Also as some people
    > mentioned to me, the possibility of the g3 being insufficient for my
    > needs in the near future.
    If your needs don't change, then the G3 will remain as adequate (or not)
    as it is today. It also carries the benefit of running cooler and
    drawing less power than the G4. I'd say you're likelier to find a 30GB
    hard drive more limiting than a G3 processor.

    The CD-Rom will do, I don't need a CDR as my
    > desktop has one, and DVD doesn't interest me.
    >
    Be very sure about this...it's another hard-to-upgrade part, and CD-R
    can be extremely useful on the road.

    As for DVD, it's not just about movies. Consider the ability to read the
    discs as future-proofing, since more and more software is being
    distributed on them. (Or maybe your next desktop will have a DVD burner
    which you'll want to use for backups, and you'll wind up cursing
    yourself because you can't read them on your laptop.)
    > POWERBOOK
    > 12.1-inch TFT Display
    > 1024x768 resolution
    > 867MHz PowerPC G4
    > 256MB DDR266 SDRAM
    (Also note that this machine's memory upgrades will be more expensive
    than the other's, but the DDR won't necessarily provide much performance
    boost.)
    > 40GB Ultra ATA/100
    (Again, it's best to get the largest offered)
    > Combo Drive
    > NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go
    > 32MB DDR video memory
    > 10/100BASE-T Ethernet
    > FireWire 400
    > AirPort Extreme Ready
    > Bluetooth built-in
    > Composite & S-Video out
    >
    > $3099
    > + 128Ram $99
    >
    > Total = $3200
    >
    > My main concern here is the price. Is it possible to approach a
    > reseller and downgrade things to reduce the cost? For example swap the
    > combo drive for a CDROM etc.
    Generally no. If there's a downgrade option at the online Apple store,
    then it can be done but usually the options are for upgrades, for
    example Combo --> Super drive. Powerbooks are simply not available with
    CD-ROM only.

    I won't be playing games so graphic
    > capabilities don't need to be cutting edge.
    >
    Then seriously consider the g3 machine. A 900 MHz G3 will be about the
    same as or faster than a G4 at 867 for most things.
    > It seems to come down to G3 vs G4 and is it worth the price
    > difference.
    IMO the benefits of the G4 machine (and there are some) are not
    justified by the price difference, but it all depends on you. Clearly
    there are many people for whom the benefits do justify the expenditure.
    >
    > Comments?
    >
    > Yaro
    Watt Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net> wrote:
    > You'll have to decide for yourself if it is worth the price difference
    > to you. Roughly an extra $600 buys you:
    >
    > [...]
    > - Double the memory out of the box.
    This is not necessarily an advantage. 256MB is barely enough & to
    upgrade the 12" powerbook to, say, 640MB, you have to pull out a 128MB
    chip & replace it with a 512MB chip, leading to a waste of a 128MB chip
    which you didn't really have to pay for in the first place.

    Kwan.


    --
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    Kwan Yeoh Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    Most people have already answered the queries. Just a few additions:
    > I want my mac to be crash resistant and the os and
    > applications to run quick with the hiccups only coming from me in the
    > form of user error, not computer error. That may be unrealistic, but
    > as close I can get to that computer utopia would be ideal.
    No computer is ideal. My Mac does crash, but only once every month or
    so, usually after installing new software & after leaving it running for
    a few weeks without a restart.
    > I usually use Paint Shop Pro for graphics,
    > so I will need to investigate mac compatibility or consider getting
    > and learning photoshop.
    A registered copy of GraphicConvertor is included with a PowerBook. An
    iBook includes AppleWorks which does some of the basics. Neither is as
    good as PhotoShop.
    > I need to create PDFs so I need Acrobat
    No. The built-in software in OS X creates PDFs. Just not as elegantly as
    Acrobat.
    > I am based in Australia so I am shopping on apple.com.au for price
    > quotes at the moment.
    Don't get RAM from them.
    > I'm not going lower then 384MB Ram, so I have added that to the total
    > cost.
    Seriously consider the 640MB. Buy through an AppleStore & ask the retail
    place to install the RAM for you. It's cheaper.
    > IBOOK
    > [...]
    > Total = $2037
    >
    > The CD-Rom will do, I don't need a CDR as my
    > desktop has one, and DVD doesn't interest me.
    Don't forget there's no floppy drive, so CDR may be the only way to get
    information off your computer onto someone else's machine in some
    cirstances. Also useful for backing up.

    And... pay the extra $88 for the 60GB hard drive. It's not much to pay &
    it's a PITA to upgrade later on.
    > POWERBOOK
    > [...]
    > My main concern here is the price. Is it possible to approach a
    > reseller and downgrade things to reduce the cost? For example swap the
    > combo drive for a CDROM etc.
    Most things can't be changed. Those that can be changed are options on
    the Apple webstore.

    Kwan.

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    Kwan Yeoh Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    BetterEdit.com schrieb:

    ....
    > I would really like the DVD-R, but the price is just to prohibitive at
    > the moment to get a powerbook (no DVD-R on iBooks apparently).
    I got my iBook with Combo-Drive, and I would not do without it!

    Servus
    Franz

    Franz Iberl Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    In article <91c9269e.0307190528.5bd235fposting.google.com> ,
    [email]adminbetteredit.com[/email] (BetterEdit.com) wrote:
    >Based on the apple.com site, of the new models I have a choice
    >between an iBook or the PowerBook. What is the difference - size? At
    >this stage the iBook looks a lot cheaper for my needs, but is there a
    >significant difference in application speed or features?
    iBook: cheap, word processing, simple graphics, not much pluggability
    PowerBook: expensive, video-editing, real-time games, lots of sockets

    You get what you pay for. If all you need is internet, text, and
    still non-professional graphics then all you need is an iBook.


    Simon Slavin Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    In article <91c9269e.0307210105.55f6c87fposting.google.com >,
    [email]adminbetteredit.com[/email] (BetterEdit.com) wrote:
    > Thank you again everyone. Your advice is very valuable. As price seems
    > to be the biggest consideration for me at the moment I'm going to get
    > the iBook, upgrade the ram to as much as I can afford and purchase the
    > most vital software.
    >
    > I would really like the DVD-R, but the price is just to prohibitive at
    > the moment to get a powerbook (no DVD-R on iBooks apparently).
    >
    > I think I will be happy enough, especially if I don't have to use
    > outlook express ever again!
    >
    > Yaro
    >
    >
    > --
    > Students - improve your marks!
    > [url]http://www.betteredit.com.au[/url]
    I have a 2002 iBook combo and recently a pBook superdrive 12'
    You won't regret getting an iBook and save for a Lacie DVD-R external
    firewire for US$299 someday. You can use the iBook combo to burn VCD or
    SVCD which I've done for a year. You can even use iSight/iChat AV with
    an iBook.

    Decided to get the pBook educational price with a bundle of HP Deskjet
    and iPod. $300 rebate and $200 discount for the pBook. I'm afraid I
    had a good deal.

    Best of decision.
    Jeffrey Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    foo wrote:
    > On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:05:49 GMT, Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>BetterEdit.com wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Based on the apple.com site, of the new models I have a choice
    >>>between an iBook or the PowerBook. What is the difference - size? At
    >>>this stage the iBook looks a lot cheaper for my needs, but is there a
    >>>significant difference in application speed or features?
    >
    >
    > Not really, except the DVD and Altivec app speed. And the PB looks
    > better. But for 60% more money, I don't think it's worthwhile.
    Except that the Altivec instruction set is used in the core of Mac OS X,
    so it affects every application. My Powerbook 500 MHz G4 runs rings
    around a 700 MHz iMac.

    Steven Fisher Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook

    Steven Fisher wrote:
    > foo wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:05:49 GMT, Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> BetterEdit.com wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Based on the apple.com site, of the new models I have a choice
    >>>> between an iBook or the PowerBook. What is the difference - size? At
    >>>> this stage the iBook looks a lot cheaper for my needs, but is there a
    >>>> significant difference in application speed or features?
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> Not really, except the DVD and Altivec app speed. And the PB looks
    >> better. But for 60% more money, I don't think it's worthwhile.
    >
    >
    > Except that the Altivec instruction set is used in the core of Mac OS X,
    > so it affects every application. My Powerbook 500 MHz G4 runs rings
    > around a 700 MHz iMac.
    >
    I've not had as much experience as I'd like with the iBook, but I don't
    find it (a borrowed 700MHz model) noticeably slower than an 800 MHz G4
    iMac, at least for things like word processing. User interface is about
    the same. I suppose the presence or absence of L3 cache could make a
    significant difference. The iBook, iMac and 12" Powerbook don't have it.
    I'll bet your 500 MHz G4 does...

    Watt Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook (Altivec instructions)

    Mikael Bystroem wrote:
    >In the core doing what? You're saying that because of what you're saying
    >above OS X make heavy mathematical computations all the time?
    I've heard the UNIX kernel described as little more than 'bcopy()'.
    In other words, it just moves lots of data around.
    If the Altivec instructions can help in that regard, then maybe he's right.


    Mike Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook (Altivec instructions)

    Mikael Bystroem wrote:
    >Mike <mghallenteract.com> wrote:
    >> I've heard the UNIX kernel described as little more than 'bcopy()'.
    >> In other words, it just moves lots of data around.
    >> If the Altivec instructions can help in that regard, then maybe he's right.
    >mike, I'm willing to accept any reasonable insightful theory that does
    >not include "if"s and "maybe"s on the major points. I'm sorry, but that
    >just won't do.
    My apologies for cluttering up this newgroup with a theory
    that you cannot accept. If I had any detailed knowledge of the
    Altivec instruction set, as you suggest you do, then I would
    know exactly whether or not it can help move data around.
    With the wider data-types that it supports, I suspect it can.
    But I don't know. I was just trying to help.
    >For example, in a mailing list (WO-Dev) I just read that G4s running
    >typical server applications (webservers, tier apps and databases) that
    >move a lot of data does not typically run faster with "n" mhz G4
    >compared to a "n" mhz G3.
    And those measurements might say more about the application
    than the kernel, which is what we were talking about, I believe.
    >But neither information supports that the core needs altivec.
    > On the contrary, I'd say.
    Of course it doesn't _require_ it, but is it able to support higher throughput
    _with_ it? Probably. We'll never know unless some kernel developer shows
    us his benchmark and performance numbers.

    Take care!


    Mike Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook (Altivec instructions)

    In article <bfu7kh$j0j$3bob.news.rcn.net>, Mike <mghallenteract.com>
    wrote:
    > I've heard the UNIX kernel described as little more than 'bcopy()'.
    > In other words, it just moves lots of data around.
    > If the Altivec instructions can help in that regard, then maybe he's right.
    Exactly. There's a lot of copying going on, although I think at least
    some of this was removed with Quartz Extreme. It may not have as big an
    impact on recent G3s as on older models.
    Steven Fisher Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: iBook vs PowerBook (Altivec instructions)

    Mike <mghallenteract.com> wrote:
    > If I had any detailed knowledge of the
    > Altivec instruction set, as you suggest you do,
    I have not suggested that I do, but I had the impression altivec
    instructions helps speedwise only for certain mathematical operations.
    Moving data is not one of those AFAIK.
    >then I would
    > know exactly whether or not it can help move data around.
    > With the wider data-types that it supports, I suspect it can.
    OK, I accept that the GUI and Quartz may need or can make good use of
    certain mathematical operations. But that does not make the core of OS X
    run faster on a G4 compared to a G3, nor does *every* application run
    faster because of it. The GUI is not even a part of the core AFAIK. At
    least it wasn't last time I checked. Feel free to correct me if you know
    otherwise.

    Some applications may run faster, typically a *lot* faster if they
    support altivec and make heavy use of such operations. But as my
    personal real life experience from other apps, that does not use the GUI
    in a large extent or that does not support altivec, doesn't support
    Steves notion, I find it hard to believe.

    He may still be right of course, but I'd like a knowledgeable
    explanation of how it can work like that and under what cirstances,
    before I believe it. Please don't be offended by this.
    Mikael Bystroem Guest

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