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ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process - Adobe Indesign Windows

I got my start working in design in the days of Compugraphics and PMTs, Exacto knives and liquid wax. All along the way, I have been helped and educated by pre-press and press workers, who have given generously of their time and expertise to teach me to be a designer whose work will (usually) print without surprises. All I had to do was shut up and listen. Thanks, guys! Peggy...

  1. #41

    Default Re: ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process

    I got my start working in design in the days of Compugraphics and PMTs,
    Exacto knives and liquid wax. All along the way, I have been helped and
    educated by pre-press and press workers, who have given generously of their
    time and expertise to teach me to be a designer whose work will (usually)
    print without surprises.

    All I had to do was shut up and listen.

    Thanks, guys!
    Peggy


    Peggy_Coquet@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #42

    Default Re: ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process



    All I had to do was shut up and listen.




    It still amazes me how difficult this is for many folks to do. I once heard a quote that rings pretty true in this business:

    The level of experience and knowledge is inversely proportional to the volume of the complaint.
    Greg_Gaspard@adobeforums.com Guest

  3. #43

    Default Re: ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process

    Wasn't there another thread like this dedicated to clueless designers?

    Mike Witherell in Washington DC
    mikewitherell_at_jetsetcom_dot_net Guest

  4. #44

    Default Re: ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process

    Skyline, the printer I was talking about actually sent me a 11x17 swatch of the different reds and blues in different formats of cmyk (photoshop and quark), and when I use these colors (such as 193 red, 485 red, or reflex blue, or 280 blue ....and I use his percentages....guess what....I get purple and washed out red).....so what is going on. I just found out today that I have an unhappy customer because the pictures in her calendar did not turn out as sharp as they should have.....and I showed my boss, and guess what.....they look great in photoshop, and the printed job looks like crap. The pics all looked like crap. I believe my boss lady knows what's going on....the printer is trying to sabatoge our work (him and my boss got into it a while back ago), and we are in the process of looking for someone else, because this is crazy. I've been dealing with this full color printer for years and he keeps telling me it's my fault (and then I have to show my boss that it's not my fault, and he's starting to actually listen to me). I may not be the best in the world, but I do know what I'm doing, and when another printer can print a job I sent him and it actually looks great, then something is wrong, and it's not me.
    Debby_Barrett@adobeforums.com Guest

  5. #45

    Default Re: ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process

    Debby, assuming your jobs are being printed (on a printing press) using four plates (CMYK) maybe it would be best to simply forget about the Pantone numbers. Get an ink book that shows the myriad colors you can create by using CMYK percentages, but don't try to "match" Pantone coated/uncoated or anything else.

    Pantone puts out such a CMYK (process) color swatch book. You can then build a palette of true CMYK colors to suit your needs job-by-job, or create a library of them to call upon for any job (we have a library of about 80 CMYK solids, plus 20 gradients, which are added to as needed).

    You mentioned, "They looked great in Photoshop, and the printed job looked like crap." How are you judging what it looked like in Photoshop? By what it looks like on your monitor? By what it looks like printed on your local inkjet or laser printer? Unless you have high-end hardware/software, and you've spent considerable time/money calibrating and managing color across the board, that's not a very accurate way to judge what something will look like when it comes off a real printing press.

    I'm not insisting you're wrong in your suspicion that the print vendor is sabotaging your work. If he's not employing a good downstream workflow he could definitely be degrading your work--intentionally or not.

    You should find out what ICC profiles your print vendor is using, and try to tailor your output to that if you can. For example, it's fairly easy to synchronize all of Adobe's CS apps to U.S. Prepress Defaults, if that's what he's using (that's just an example of a common choice--if he's using something else you probably can also). If your color profiles are all in synch with his, then you should be seeing output from any print vendor who knows what he's doing pretty close to what the CMYK builds show in the Pantone process swatch book.

    What you see on your monitor or coming out of your local inkjet or laser printer may be something completely different, however, unless you invest the time and money and have higher-end hardware. 256-color monitors and $300 consumer-grade printers won't cut it. In fact you need to get a LOT better than that to realize monitor or printer color you can even begin to believe in. The kinds of printers many print vendors and service bureaus use for "contract proofs" cost in the low to mid five figures. Large high-end monitors cost in the thousand(s).
    Skyline@adobeforums.com Guest

  6. #46

    Default Re: ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process

    [email]Skylineadobeforums.com[/email] wrote in news:3bb512d4.43webx.la2eafNXanI:
    > If your color profiles are all in synch with his, then you should
    > be seeing output from any print vendor who knows what he's doing
    > pretty close to what the CMYK builds show in the Pantone process
    > swatch book.
    If you are designing with Pantone process swatches, then color profiles
    are irrelevant, and color management should be turned completely off
    throughout the workflow. This way the CMYK percentages you specced on
    the basis of the appearance of the Pantone process swatch are what get
    printed on press.
    Guy_Smiley@adobeforums.com Guest

  7. #47

    Default Re: ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process

    I can maybe see the wisdom in turning off color management in this or similar scenarios if a job consists only of natively-produced text and background colors. But what about the vast majority of jobs that also have photos and other images?

    The vendors we prefer to send most of our print work to tell us to use (across the board with Adobe CS) what they use--and in each case it happens to be U.S. Prepress Defaults (or, alternately, some vendors' workflows may be set to an equivalent of "leave color unchanged"). Regardless, on press, they get the native CMYK builds nearly perfect (comparing to Pantone's process swatches), and it allows us to realize consistent, predictable output of images.

    Are we just lucky, or are we (and our vendors) doing it correctly and reaping the benefits?

    95 percent of the time, we supply PDFs and not native files, and we embed the U.S. Prepress Default "Doent CMYK - U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2" when exporting a CMYK doc to PDF. So downstream, the print vendor either stays with those settings or processes using their own workflow's equivalent of "leave color unchanged."

    The only real snag is all of our legacy Quark (4.11) files. But that's another thread.
    Skyline@adobeforums.com Guest

  8. #48

    Default Re: ID3: Convert Pantone colour to process

    I really don't think this guy (the printer) knows what a pdf file is! Talking with my boss today, the other printer that did such a good job on one of my calendars, actually has a staff of folks that pulls up the job, looks at it, and if the colors aren't vibrant enough, fix it. They will also do a color in-house proof (if we don't request a color proof) and make sure all the colors are jiving, but this other printer does not do it. I know I won't get exactly what I see on my screen in photoshop the colors I want, but it has been very close cause the other printers job when I put the printed product up to what is in my computer, he hit it on the dot pretty much and our in-house printer has been doing full color school handbooks (on a 1 color press, no less ya), and the color print outs I give him, and what he has printed are very, very, close. My boss told me today, that if our in-house printer can get the job done right, then something is wrong with our other printer, and I'm not the culprit on this. I've been blamed in the past by this so called printer and now my boss is seeing the light. As a matter of fact, we are in the middle of football programs and we are going to print the covers in house this year. We just got a RIP system not too long ago, so maybe this year things will turn out better than they did in years past.
    Debby_Barrett@adobeforums.com Guest

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