If I combine two PDFs...

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

If I open a Press Quality PDF, Insert a second Press Quality page, is the PDF that results from a Save As itself Press Quality? Do I have some control over this result somewhere in Preferences or elsewhere?

More generally, what is the rule? If I combine two Smallest File Size PDFs, is the result a Smallest File Size PDF? And how about the trickier merger of files with different joboptions... a Press Quality with a High Quality Print, for example. What's the result of a Save As in these cases?

Thanks.

[Jon Bessant]

Every object in the PDF will remain as it was created (although Acro8
has a nifty method via the COMBINE feature to downsample on the fly) ..

However, be careful since the *new* PDF will have a wrapper (pdf
version) which will be the version of Acrobat you utilise for merging ..

This can be overcome by using the PDF Optimiser under the Advanced menu
to down version (if you want?) ...

Cheers!

Jon

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

Thanks, Jon. I get it. And that's a valuable caution about the wrapper. For certain print houses, it could create a problem, even though the PDF contents are press ready.

[Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com]

Acrobat 8 has a neat feature which is part of Combine that Jon referred to. This is the ability to create a PDF Package. This combines multiple PDFs together but each one retains its integrity (which could be keeping them at Press or PDF/X-1 quality). It works best with Acrobat 8, but with Acrobat 7 Professional, when you received a package, the first PDF would appear, and subsequent PDFs in the package would show up as Attachments.

[Jon Bessant]

Get's me thinking again - if indeed a PDF package is created by accident
(since the package ethos is great so maintaining status of
certified/secured PDFs) .... the PDF wrapper is indeed PDF 1.7 ..

It would have been great to have a combine feature from the BATCH
PROCESSING command ...

Jon

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

Wait... now I'm confused.

Steve, you say the Package "combines multiple PDFs together but each one retains its integrity."

I thought Jon had explained that a Save As is Acro7 (or even earlier) "retains the integrity" of each, individual PDF that was added prior to the Save As... whether these individual PDFs were all made with the same Preset or even different Presets.

I thought he was saying that only the "wrapper" (the PDF version) would be "updated" to the version in which I do the save... but the specific contents of each page remain as originally and separately saved.

Did I misunderstand?

[Jon Bessant]

OK - it is a little confusing until the see the actual feature within
Acrobat 8 ..

Here's my description

• when a PDF is normally produced it has a PDF version
• if you merge together PDFs into a new document (through Acrobat) the
PDF version of the document does indeed become the PDF version of
Acrobat (the new wrapper)
• A PDF package is a new concept within Acrobat for the typical user but
has been around for a while within the PDF specification
• think of a normal PDF as a tin of beans - a package is the carrier bag
which holds the tins of beans. The carrier bag is PDF 1.7 but the beans
are in their original wrappers (or tins) .... ;-)

Does that make sense?

Jon

PS - if you create an account a [url]www.acrobatusers.com[/url] - you can see a
great webinar that explains the PDF packages etc., etc

[Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com]

When you're in the Combine dialog box, after selecting the files (or parts of files—you can choose which pages of a file), then you're taken to a second step where you can choose between (1) Merging the files which creates a single PDF like Acrobat 6 or 7 Pro did, or (2) creating a PDF Package. Only with a PDF Package do the individual PDFs retain their integrity. This could include PDF/X compliance, a digital signature, or whatever.

The PDF Package can be opened up in Acrobat 7 or 8, but only 8 does it gain all its features. (With Acrobat 7, the first PDF appears, and others are attachments.) Also openable in Reader 7 or 8. Reader 8 shows the contents, in Reader 7, it uses attachments.

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

So Steve, you're saying that, in Acrobat 7.0.8, if I combine two individual PDFs, both saved as PDF/X1-a, the new, combined PDF (created with a Save As after Inserting one of the PDFs into the other), will or will not be PDF/X compliant?

And what if, in 7.0.8, I insert a Smallest File Size PDF into a PDF/X1-a PDF. Will the latter lose its PDF/X compliance? Or will the former gain PDF/X compliance? Or will the latter remain compliant and the former remain Smallest File Size, as if, when output, the two pages were still separate files saved with their own presets?

I'm asking less about the "wrapper" (i.e., 1.4, 1.5, 1.6) and more about the actual CONTENTS of each page, e.g., the resolution of raster images and so forth.

[Steve_Werner@adobeforums.com]

Doug,

I was talking (as Jon was) about Acrobat 8 Professional, not Acrobat 7 Professional. This is a new feature. Acrobat 7 has no ability to maintain the integrity when files are combined.

[Aandi_Inston@adobeforums.com]

> if I combine two individual PDFs, both saved as PDF/X1-a, the new, combined PDF (created with a Save As after Inserting one of the PDFs into the other), will or will not be PDF/X compliant?

Certainly the case. Acrobat would save as a PDF 1.6 file, which cannot
be a valid PDF/X-1a file (by definition). You would use pre-flight
again.

If you use the packaging feature of Acrobat 8 it certainly,
absolutely, can't be a PDF/X-1a. This is because not only will it be a
newer version of PDF, the package is done using attachments, which
PDF/X-1a forbids.

>
>And what if, in 7.0.8, I insert a Smallest File Size PDF into a PDF/X1-a PDF. Will the latter lose its PDF/X compliance? Or will the former gain PDF/X compliance?

>I'm asking less about the "wrapper" (i.e., 1.4, 1.5, 1.6) and more about the actual CONTENTS of each page, e.g., the resolution of raster images and so forth.

This isn't changed, but I don't see what the resolution of raster
images has to do with PDF/X-1a. PDF/X-1a is mainly a list of things
that are forbidden, along with the requirement for a special tag in
the file saying it is PDF/X-1a. Nothing about image resolution.

Aandi Inston

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

Certainly right on the last point about resolution, Aandi.

I think I've asked too broad a question on this thread with too many premises and variables.

Here is my specific concern:

I save an Illustrator CS2 file as a PDF with the Press Ready preset. I save a second Illustrator file with the Press Ready preset. I now need to send both of these to a commercial printer. For whatever reason, I want to send a single, two-page file rather than two separate files. I open one of the two PDFs in Acrobat 7.0.8. I insert the second one. I Save As and give the combined file a new name.

1. Does my combined file comply with Press Ready requirements and standards?

2. If I did a simple Save instead of a Save As, does the answer change?

3. If I'd saved both originals with the PDF/X1-a preset instead of the Press Ready preset but had otherwise gone through the same steps, is the combined PDF PDF/X1-a compliant?

Apologies for the undue complexity of my original posts. I have a feeling you guys have already answered all three of my questions, but my ignorance prevents me from seeing the answers through the nest of "packages" and "wrappers" and "integrity" and "Acrobat 8."

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

Bump. Just trying to put this question to rest. Approaching press deadline. I repeat, I'm sure the answers to my questions are already embedded in this thread and my own inexperience is obscuring them. If one of you more patient experts could just take a quick look at the last post above and shout out the truth to me... Jon, Steve, Aandi?

Thanks.

[de_Siem@adobeforums.com]

1 Save as will optmize the file by getting rid of duplicate stuff. it will also linearize the pdf (if set in the general prefs) for fast webview. I don't think these 2 things will break any pdf/x standard, nor will they downsample images.

Save as should save the pdf in a new verion (Acrobat version minus one, so if you have 8, the version of pdf will be 8-1=7 so 1.7) This version change will break pdf/x standards, since these standards are based on older (1.3 and 1.4 mainly) versions of pdf.

In short the pdf will still be 'press-ready' meaning it will be high quality, but will not conform to any standards.

2 Save, should not change the version of the pdf, nor will it optimize the pdf. So you you still have a press ready pdf with the same pdf version.

if the 2 pdf's that are to be combined, are different versions, then the newest version will be used overall.

3. overall i'd say after combining simply run the preflight again and see if it still comes up a valid for the standard you need.

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

Thanks much. Just what I was looking for.

[Leonard_Rosenthol@adobeforums.com]

Combining documents that are based on an ISO PDF standard (eg. PDF/X and PDF/A) and producing a document that maintains that level of compliancy is a very complex process and one not supported by ANY tool on the market.

It's one of the reason that we introduced PDF Packages in Acrobat 8. You can create a package, which will contain both of your original PDF/X-1a documents (untouched!) along with a cover page of instructions/notes for your printer. No problems!

The other option is to merge the documents together and then use the Preflight tool in Acrobat to "reapply" the certification.

Leonard

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

Got it, Leonard. Thank you. Until I upgrade to 10.4.x and then get CS3, I'll just send separate PDF/X files to the print house. No harm in this at all. They probably would prefer it.

Your post is the first that made sense of this Package concept for me. I wasn't following how it differs from combining (e.g., Inserting) multiple, individual PDF files. Now I see.

[Jon Bessant]

If you merge together into one single file - the PDF/X accreditation is
lost since it now holds the compliancy of Acrobat 7 (PDF 1.6)

If you create a PDF Package (you must use the Adobe coversheet otherwise
an error with javascript content will appear) - the PDF passes the PDF/X
accreditation check.

I need to test a PDF Package with a CPSI since I would assume the PS/PDF
version of the RIP will determine if it can indeed process PDF packages ...

Jon

[Leonard_Rosenthol@adobeforums.com]

John, you don't want to make the package a PDF/X - that's the wrong model.

Just think of the Package as a wrapper or archive - ala StuffIt or Zip, for this particular usage.

When the recipient gets the Package, they just double-click on the PDFs inside and then print them (or save them out somewhere else).

Leonard

[Jon Bessant]

I'm thinking of the implications of a publisher - "instead of sending
all single page PDFs - why not package"

If so, only the cover page would render ....

(a potential divide when using this great new feature)

Jon