Illustrator EPS files placed in InDesign - Managing Color!

[Lou_Dina@adobeforums.com]

I create 4/C brochures using InDesign CS, Illustrator CS and Photoshop CS on an XP platform. I know how to color manage tagged TIFFs placed into ID (created in Photoshop CS), but have some questions about EPS images created in Illustrator.

As I understand it, (and perhaps I misunderstand it), EPS images do not support ICC tagged images.

So, let's say I am designing a brochure to be printed at a specific commercial printer and I have an accurate ICC profile for their press. When I work on a logo in Illustrator CS in CMYK, (which will be placed into ID CS), do I need to set the profile in Color Settings in Illustrator to the press profile, or does it even make a difference? If an object in illustrator is created using 100C, 100M, 0Y, 0K, wouldn't it be placed into ID as 100C, 100M? Or does selection of a color space in Illustrator change the values? (I find Illustrator the most confusing of all three programs when it comes to managing color).

When I place the file into ID CS, how do I make sure I get the colors I expect? If I set up my color settings in ID CS so that it matches the Press profile, then what happens to the color I bring into ID from Illustrator? With Photoshop, no problem. But what about EPS files from Illustrator?

Any thoughts or suggestions (other than a bullet to the head)?

Thanks,

Lou

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

Lou,

Just make sure your color settings are same across the apps.

If you're working in the same color space (e.g., U.S. SWOP Coated) in IL and ID, the CMYK values should be retained across the apps. The colors will then be correctly managed in ID through output, and the fact that you were not able to embed a profile in your Illustrator EPS file will be immaterial.

=-= Harron =-=

[Lou_Dina@adobeforums.com]

Thanks, Harron.

I have the color settings in ID, IL and PS set to US Sheetfed Coated. That works fine. I usually save CMYK images in IL and PS to this space, and I usually design design brochures in ID in this color space (especially if I don't know who is going to print it before hand, which does happen).

I use different commercial printers, and each has his own color profile. US Sheetfed Coated is a good general space, but it doesn't match their final profile.

So, if I do design a brochure in ID and set it up to the final printer's profile, I am now bringing EPS files in from Illustrator that were created in a US Sheetfed Coated color space. Since they are not tagged with a profile, they are assigned the profile set up in the ID color settings. That's where life gets a little confusing to me. I don't really want to tweak all my EPS files in IL every time I use a different printer. (Photoshop TIFFs present no problem, because ID honors the embedded profiles).

Any thoughts or suggestions in such a scenario? I have logo colors that I want to print as accurately as the destination press is able.

Thanks,

Lou

[LenHewitt@adobeforums.com]

Lou,

In Photoshop, from Edit>Colour Settings, set your CMYK colour space to the
printer's profile you require and then SAVE your colour settings to a Colour
Settings File (.CSF). Name it so you know what destination output device it
refers to.

Now from Illustrator's and InDesign's (and Acrobat's if you have it)
Edit>Colour Settings LOAD that .CSF you just saved.

You can create multiple .CSF files (one for each destination device) and
Load the one appropriate to the intended output device before you start each
job.

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

Lou,

...if I do design a brochure in ID and set it up to the final printer's
profile...




I wouldn't do that. I would stick to a "standard" CMYK output profile, such as U.S. Sheetfed Coated.

Let the printer convert space as required according to their color management practices.

I don't really want to tweak all my EPS files in IL every time I use a
different printer.




But that will be your only choice if you want to work in printer-specific spaces and embed those profiles.

=-= Harron =-=

[Lou_Dina@adobeforums.com]

Len/Harron...Thanks for the responses.

Using a standard color space, such as US Sheetfed Coated, also has its pitfalls. When doing CMYK to CMYK conversions, black line art and text (100K) often gets converted to process colors (all 4 plates) instead of just the K plate. Also, you are now giving control to the commercial printer and hoping they do conversions of all images and components correctly. I find this to be hit or miss, since many printers don't understand ICC based color management. By doing it myself, I know these things have been done correctly and that as long as their profiles are accurate, I will get a good proof, probably the first time.

I did some experimenting this weekend. I created our company logo in Illustrator CS and saved 4 different versions. Two of the versions were created as US Sheetfed Coated (one saved as AI with embedded profile and the other saved as EPS). I also repeated the above using Euroscale Coated (saved as AI with embedded profile and also as EOS).

I placed all four logos into InDesign CS. If I assign US Sheetfed to the ID document, both EPS images match the AI file with the US Sheetfed profile. If I assign Euroscale coated to the ID document, both EPS files will match the AI graphic with the Euroscale embedded profile. Assigning or converting the document has no effect on the AI files with embedded profiles, which is what I would expect. The AI files with embedded profiles are treated the same as TIFFs with embedded profiles. The only difference I could see between the AI files and TIFFs is that ID doesn't tell you anywhere that the AI files have embedded profiles, even when you do a preflight. It appears they are untagged, even though they are tagged. Still, ID clearly honors the embedded profiles of AI files.

EPS files, on the other hand, take on the color space of the native ID components (as set in Color Settings). If you assign or convert the ID document, all untagged images (including EPS) and all native ID components ARE affected.

So, for me, the best solution will probably be to create AI files and save with embedded profiles of US Sheetfed Coated. When placed into ID, the tagged profiles will remain intact and will be honored by ID. I can convert the document to any space I want and retain color information on all tagged TIFFs and AI files. All untagged images and native ID components will be converted to the new space. Like I mentioned before, CMYK to CMYK conversions can result in the separation of 100K components into four plates, so this needs to be checked.

Just thought I'd share my experience. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome.

Lou

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

Thanks for posting the results of your experiments, Lou.

I find this to be hit or miss, since many printers don't understand ICC
based color management. By doing it myself, I know these things have been
done correctly and that as long as their profiles are accurate, I will
get a good proof, probably the first time.




I understand what you're trying to do. I am amazed, however, that printers who don't understand ICC profile-based CM can provide you with an accurate press profile.

=-= Harron =-=