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Illustrator gripes - Adobe Illustrator Windows

Not only does AI not remember the last state of the window, but if you set the shortcut to OPen Maximized that is ignored, too... this has been going on for several versions now and is extremely annoying. Hmm... Brian, I just tried the following on my system, running IL 10.0.3 on XP Pro: 1. Right-dragged a shortcut of Illustrator.exe from Explorer onto my desktop. 2. Set to run maximized in shortcut properties. When I start IL with this shortcut, it does indeed start maximized on my system. If I then close and restart IL by double-clicking on Illustrator.exe, it ...

  1. #21

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes



    Not only does AI not remember the last state of the window, but if you
    set the shortcut to OPen Maximized that is ignored, too... this has been
    going on for several versions now and is extremely annoying.




    Hmm... Brian, I just tried the following on my system, running IL 10.0.3 on XP Pro:

    1. Right-dragged a shortcut of Illustrator.exe from Explorer onto my desktop.

    2. Set to run maximized in shortcut properties.

    When I start IL with this shortcut, it does indeed start maximized on my system. If I then close and restart IL by double-clicking on Illustrator.exe, it opens in a normal (non-maximized) window... which is, of course, what drives me bonkers. But the shortcut thing seems to work on my setup, even though that's useless to me.

    I just tried the same experiment with IL 8.0.1, which is also my system. Same results. (Boy... gotta love how fast version 8 starts up. Those were the days.)

    It's not like shift + shortcut key now does something else - they just
    threw away the functionality. Why?!




    I would love to hear the answer to that one, Jeff. I can only guess that someone ed up.

    =-= Harron =-=
    Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #22

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    Jeff,

    You don't have to first open all sublayers, especially if thousands, but if you click on the object and it's not a group, then note the full layer, open that layer, you'll see the proper sublayer is highlighted in the Layer palette. Now just grab that sublayer and drag n drop into either a new full layer or into any layer of your choice, including another sublayer (you'll get a subsublayer). When you have more layers/sublayers than the menu box will view at once, just drag to the top or bottom of the menu and the list will move until you get to the layer/sublayer you need (and have prepared for prior). That's doing it manually. Can't you do that?

    Have you listed your wants and wishes into the Feature Request Topic and here? <http://www.adobe.com/support/feature.html>

    Bob
    BobHill@adobeforums.com Guest

  3. #23

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    Bob,

    I understand what you're saying. (On a side note, you're calling both single objects and actual sublayers "layers"... I know that if you don't have "show layers only" enabled, they do in fact share the same level of hierarchy. But that's always seemed kind of annoying and potentially confusing; a layer is a container, an object is an object. I'm not saying I have a solution, but I wish there was some way that layers and objects were better differentiated in the layers palette. I for one don't really see much need for the objects themselves showing up in the layers palette, hence why I'm really glad that Adobe included a "show layers only" option. It is a layers palette after all, not an objects palette. But to each his own - I'll be satisfied as long as Adobe doesn't take away the "show layers only" option.)

    I digress. Back to your suggestion. Yes, I could do that. But as I explained above, I don't like messing with tons of objects in my layers palette, especially when - as I noted with another gripe - all the layers (and objects) are expanded every time you open a file.

    I thank you for your suggestions. I might employ them. But I'm still looking for a good reason why I can't just move selected non-grouped or -compounded object(s) on the artboard by dragging the selection indicator in the layers palette from a parent layer to a sublayer with the "show layers only" option enabled.
    Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com Guest

  4. #24

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    Jeff,

    I guess because CorelDraw has had the ability to show layers and sublayers (objects) for some time prior to Illustrator, I got used to how it worked and learned to love it. It does make for a lot faster and easier layering once you get the hang of it. And it's truly not as complicated as it sounds or looks. Without the Layers Palette we would all be lost today, just think of sublayers as being a broadening of options. The difference is that you can also have subsublayers which makes the thought of a sublayer being an object a little difficult, but understand grandparent, parent, child concept makes that easier and understandibly more organized (less full layers). I do love sub/subsublayer abilities. For me, it's great.

    Bob
    BobHill@adobeforums.com Guest

  5. #25

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    Bob,

    Now you lost me. You seem to be using the terms "sublayer" and "object" interchangeably. I'm not saying that's wrong, it's just not how I like to think about it. Maybe I confused you, too. I love sublayers. Sublayer meaning a container within another container (the parent layer), creating a hierarchy in the layers palette. I like them enough that I was willing to use AI 9 even though it was otherwise a pretty big piece of junk compared to AI 8. I just don't like mixing them with objects. Object meaning a singular entity from the artboard being displayed as an item on the layers palette, just as containers (layers/sublayers) are. I don't think they should be thought of as equals. Layers contain objects (though I don't like the objects to be shown). (Parent) layers can contain other (child/sub) layers as well (which I do like shown). Objects are, well, just objects and I don't find the need to have them represented in my layers palette (they literally represent themselves on the artboard already). I know which objects are on my layers; that's why I create layer hierarchies - to keep track of my objects without having to actually keep tabs on every single one individually. The way I organize, and again not that this is right or wrong, I do not need to see objects on my layers palette to know what's there. I already know. Therefore, I prefer that my layers palette show nothing but layers and sublayers (which is what the "show layers only" option does). It stays much organized (for me) that way.

    -jeff
    Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com Guest

  6. #26

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    Harron and Bob, this is a repeat from 4 months ago but it's pertinent to the
    min/max discussion:

    Photoshop 7, Word XP, AutoCAD 2004, and TextPad 4 all function the same way,
    which should be standard Windows behavior:
    1. Open from shortcut set to Run Maximized - the programs open maximized
    2. Open from shortcut set to Run Maximized after the programs have been
    closed with small windows - the programs open maximized
    3. Open from double click after set to Maximized - the programs open
    maximized
    4. Open from double click after the programs have been closed with small
    windows - the programs open with small windows

    This is how Illustrator CS operates:
    1. Open from shortcut set to Run Maximized - the program opens
    pseudo-maximized (not quite full screen)
    2. Open from shortcut set to Run Maximized after the program has been closed
    with small window - the program opens with small window
    3. Open from double click after set to Maximized - the program opens almost
    full screen but not maximized
    4. Open from double click after the program has been closed with small
    window - the program opens with small window

    In the above for CS
    1. is wrong and is new behavior in CS
    2. is wrong because the shortcut setting is ignored, and is new behavior in
    CS
    3. is wrong but also existed with other versions of Illustrator
    4. is correct behavior


    Rick Moore Guest

  7. #27

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes



    ...couldn't bug fixing be a huge, huge point for marketers?




    I follow your logic, Jeff. But can you imagine an Adobe ad campaign for a new release where the theme is, "No new features, just bug fixes"?

    =-= Harron =-=
    Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com Guest

  8. #28

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    Thanks for reposting that Derrick.

    I don't have CS, but I agree with your assessment of what should be "standard windows behavior."

    =-= Harron =-=
    Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com Guest

  9. #29

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    :) I think a lot of real users (of virtually any software product) would jump for joy over such an event. New features are horribly overrated compared to fixing existing features that don't work right. It is one of the biggest banes of the entire software industry.

    The trick is, how do you get that through the thick heads in the marketing department? I'm not entirely sure that anyone outside those walls cares 1% as much as they do about major new features. They need to stop overestimating the gee-wizz factor of new version releases and give due process to fixing existing problems.

    Are you listening, marketing drones?!
    Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com Guest

  10. #30

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    Amen. Where's my soapbox?
    Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com Guest

  11. #31

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes



    " I have to wonder, in light of the fact that the marketing drones often
    force new features over bug fixing, what is the ratio of upgraders to
    brand new users? If it's overwhelmingly upgraders over new users, couldn't
    bug fixing be a huge, huge point for marketers?"




    Corporate public relations rule #1: Only admit to mistakes in engineering or production when the bean counters have shown hard copy spreadsheet evidence indicating that sales are down specifically beacause those mistakes were made. Simple Cost/Benefit ysis. Or, if crews from "60 Minutes" and "Nightline" are banging on your door, and Ralph Nader is standing there leading the charge in full kevlar body armor with an unsheathed katana raised on high, that's when all those Master's-level back-pedalling courses at Wharton start paying off.

    "I guess it just doesn't work that way."




    Subsection A, to Rule #1: Do everything possible prevent present and potential customers from knowing about Rule #1.

    ;)
    Phosphor@adobeforums.com Guest

  12. #32

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    Well heck, they don't have to broadcast that they fixed bugs... but I guess the problem is that fixing bugs takes away from the time engineers could use to add new, unneeded features! Yay!

    On the other hand, I have to wonder how much time it really (should) take to fix minor bugs. It doesn't seem like it should be a big deal at all. But then, I'm not a programmer so I can't really vouch for that. I know tracking bugs in the code can be very time consuming. Still, it's infuriating that they place such a huge premium on what can be positively spun by the marketing department over what really needs to be fixed... the engineers I imagine are at least as annoyed about it as the customers. And they're not allowed to publicly vent their frustration and shared annoyance, lest they be strung up by their toes by the marketing goons.
    Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com Guest

  13. #33

    Default Re: Illustrator gripes

    My historical view of the evolution of Illustrator is that things have improved over the years but also the trend seems to be to add bells and whistles and "dumb down" the program for mom and pop users. That may be a bit harsh because illustrator IS hard to learn initially. (have used since illustrator 88)
    OK here is a question:
    Why is the new CS displaying poorly on my mac? I get white lines around objects like type and sometimes a weird "JAG" in a shape that is at an angle.
    This persists until I resize move the image. If I turn off anti-alias it goes away but type looks bad. OSX panther, G5. Anyone?

    BTW, I never really understood the whole each object having it's own layer thing. Seems like overkill.
    david_flaherty@adobeforums.com Guest

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