Illustrator gripes

[Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com]

I have some gripes about Illustrator, as I'm sure we all do. Rather than just ranting though, I'm wondering if anyone can tell me why Adobe chose to make Illustrator behave the way it does. I recently downloaded the CS trial version to see if any of my gripes had been remedied. Sadly, only one has. Here are the remainders:

8.0.1 was the newest version at the time I started using Illustrator. Most of my gripes about Illustrator appeared in 9.0 and have not been fixed/changed in subsequent releases (9.x, 10.x, 11.x). The same problems are persistent across Windows & Macintosh platforms.

When opening Illustrator in Windows, window maximization is not persistent. All other programs I have (including other Adobe programs) do stay maximized, as they should. Also, when opening a file by clicking on it (rather than through the "open" dialog in Illustrator), Illustrator again becomes un-maximized.

You cannot move an object from a parent layer to a sublayer. Also, you can no longer move objects to hidden layers as you could in 8.x. If you really think that many people will be confused by this behavior, make it an option in the preferences panel and turned off by default.

All sublayers are expanded in the layers palette when opening a file. They should stay however they were when the file was closed. Or if they were all collapsed, that would still be better than all expanded.

You can no longer cycle through the hidden tools (i.e., pencil, smooth, erase) by pressing shift with the shortcut key. This worked in 8.x, but has been missing ever since. To make matters worse, when you switch to a different tool and then come back to the previous (hidden) tool using shortcut keys, it switches to the primary tool (i.e., pencil rather than smooth). The hidden tool should be persistent, as it was in version 8.x.

The measure tool has been moved from the hand/page tools and grouped with the eyedropper/paint bucket tools. This is stupid. It makes a lot more sense where it was, and everyone was used to it being there (although it's been a while now).

Empty text elements should just disappear rather than persisting as stray points.

[Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com]

Teri Pettit "Why are these features NOT in Illustrator CS?" 2/11/04 1:39pm </cgi-bin/webx?13@@.2ccfd978/35>

[Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com]

Well, that post was an interesting read but didn't really address any of the issues I noted above. Unless your point was that none of my issues have been addressed because of all of the energy that goes into bickering about the major features in that post.

For the most part, Illustrator does everything (and then some) that I could ever need it to do. I have very little interest in petitioning for more major features compared to how I just wish some small things could be fixed - and most aren't even new features... they're things that have been broken since AI 8 or have been added in newer versions but did not implement all of the logical functionality.

[Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com]

I just wish some small things could be fixed - and most aren't even new
features.




That was the point.

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

Jeffrey,

I agree with you on every point.

=-= Harron =-=

[Alexander_Kogan.@adobeforums.com]

The only thing that catches my eye as a rather strange statement is this:

You cannot move an object from a parent layer to a sublayer.




How about using the selection indicator (the small rectangle to the right of the circle icon of the layer)? Select an object(s), then grab the selection indicator of the layer (parent or whatever) and drag it to any layer you want to move the object(s) to. Alt-drag will copy rather than moving.

[Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com]

Alex,

Unless I'm missing something, the method you suggest for moving an object from a parent layer to a sublayer is exactly what won't work. When you drag the selection indicator from the parent to the sub, it turns into a "you can't do that" symbol (circle with a slash through it). The only way to move an object from a parent to a sublayer is to first move it from the parent to a separate layer and then move it from that layer to the sublayer where you want it - a totally superfluous step.

The one thing that has been fixed since 9.0 is that when you copy (or cut) and paste using ctrl-C/ctrl-V on a sublayer, it actually keeps the copy on the sublayer. Previously, it put the copy on the parent layer. That of course was all the more infuriating when you can't move the object directly from the parent layer back to the sublayer where it's supposed to be. (however, ctrl-F/B and alt-dragging the object on the artboard has always correctly kept the copy on the same layer)

And thank you Harron for your support. :)

-jeff

[Gary_Newman@adobeforums.com]

Jeffrey

I share most of your gripes. But I don't understand what you mean by window maximization being persistent. The window size is saved along with the document, as I think it shold be.

Also, I agree with Alexander. I can move objects freely from parent layer to sublayer or sub-sublayer, by dragging the selection indicator from parent to sublayer. I cannot get the "you can't do that" symbol unless the layer is locked or hidden.

[Kurt_Gold@adobeforums.com]

Jeffrey,

I cannot share your trouble with moving from parent to sublayers, too. Moving to hidden or locked layers is possible with a small workaround. First make sure that nothing but the objects that are to be moved is selected and marked in the layers palette. Select the desired hidden or locked layer. Go to Object > Arrange > Move to current layer (or use the context sensitive menu). Once you have record that as an action and added a shortcut to it, it should work for you in an acceptable way. For me it does.

Kurt Gold

[Harron_K._Appleman@adobeforums.com]

Gary,

But I don't understand what you mean by window maximization being persistent.




Jeff is referring to the application, not the document window size. With most Windows applications -- including every other Adobe application I've used -- if you quit with your app window maximized, it will again be maximized when you restart it. Not Illustrator. I was hoping this would finally be fixed in version 11, but apparently it has not.

Yes, you can force Illustrator to start maximized by using a Windows shortcut (with properties set to run maximized), but some of us like to start IL by double-clicking on associated files in Explorer. I've worked around this problem with every version by using a batch file to start IL, but I shouldn't have to do that.

=-= Harron =-=

[BobHill@adobeforums.com]

Jeff,

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but are you aware of the relationship between full layers and sublayers? When you click the triangle of a full layer, you are seeing the sublayers, which are contents within the full layer. Like files stored in a folder. Your sublayer is already in that full layer and if you wish it to be a sublayer within another full layer then just drag n drop it from the one into the other full layer, using Layers palette.

Bob

[Brian]

> Jeff is referring to the application, not the document window size.

> With most Windows applications -- including every other Adobe
> application I've used -- if you quit with your app window maximized,
> it will again be maximized when you restart it. Not Illustrator. I
> was hoping this would finally be fixed in version 11, but apparently
> it has not.

Not only does AI not remember the last state of the window, but if you
set the shortcut to OPen Maximized that is ignored, too... this has been
going on for several versions now and is extremely annopying.

[BobHill@adobeforums.com]

Brian,

I find the program opens to default of last setting, maximized or not on my CS Illustrator on XP. And it has followed this for past two or three versions that I can immediately recall.

Bob

[Mikey_Hopkins@adobeforums.com]

I'm afraid that I can't say mine does that, Bob. You must have a special version of Illustrator :)

I'm sure that it was really, really important for the Illustrator team to add the Lensflare tool so marketing would have something to blather on about in the new features list, but fixing daily annoyances seems to be a very distinct second priority.

The best new featureset I could ever want to hear for a new Illustrator version is:
More stable, faster, annoyances and bugs fixed. :)

[Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com]

I have to wonder, in light of the fact that the marketing drones often force new features over bug fixing, what is the ratio of upgraders to brand new users? If it's overwhelmingly upgraders over new users, couldn't bug fixing be a huge, huge point for marketers?

I guess it just doesn't work that way.

[Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com]

I'm pretty sure I understand the relationship between parent layers and sublayers. For one thing, I always have the "show layers only" option enabled. So I don't see individual objects in the layers palette (there are way, way, way too many objects - often in the thousands - for that to be practical).

I just tried the "Object -> Arrange -> Send to current layer" command and it worked for sending an object from the parent to the sublayer. I didn't know that menu option existed. Still, that's far less convenient than moving an object between layers by dragging the selection indicator, which despite people telling me it should work, still does not. I don't know what the secret is.

What is the consensus here, anyway? Are most people able to move objects between parent and sublayers by dragging the selection indicator or not?

[Kurt_Gold@adobeforums.com]

Jeffrey,

you just told the secret yourself. It's the show layers only option. As it seems to me that you fear stability problems when activating the preview of objects in the layer palette, my suggestion is to deactivate the show layers only option and take 12 pixels for the size of each layer palette line. Then you can drag and drop as you like. This should be a compromise. Otherwise you are forced to use the send to current layer command…

Kurt Gold

[Brian]

> I find the program opens to default of last setting, maximized or not

> on my CS Illustrator on XP. And it has followed this for past two or
> three versions that I can immediately recall.

Your definitely the exception (and lucky!), not the rule... this whole
window state issue (both remembering the last state, as well as not
opening maximized when the shortcut has been defined as such) has been
reported by me and many others for a few years now...

[Rick Moore]

I would like to see that, this has been broken for quite some time

> I find the program opens to default of last setting, maximized or not on

my CS Illustrator on XP. And it has followed this for past two or three
versions that I can immediately recall.

[Jeffrey_R_Thomas@adobeforums.com]

OK, so dragging between parent/child layers works only if "show layers only" isn't enabled. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Unfortunately, that forces me only to revise my gripe rather than consider the problem solved:

You cannot move an object from a parent layer to a sublayer if the "show layers only" option is enabled.

Back to the originally stated purpose of my post, can anyone explain why Adobe has chosen for this not to function? Just an oversight? What about the things that have specifically been removed since version 8? Particularly, why shift + shortcut key no longer cycles through hidden tools. It's not like shift + shortcut key now does something else - they just threw the functionality away. Why?! (I know certain new tools are accessed by shift + shortcut key, but many old shift + shortcut keys now do nothing.)