Illustrator to InDesign......

[Joey_Ponthieux@adobeforums.com]

As I have noted in a previous post I am attempting to move a previous artwork from Illustrator to InDesign. I have traditionally used Illustrator for my layouts, but would much rather use InDesign since it provides better publishing/printing support. I ultimately decided to copy over select elements from Illustrator and recreate the text and images in InDesign. I am having a lot of difficulty recreating this document. I have shapes in the original work that have transparent fill and opaque strokes. There are multiple shapes which overlay eachother with the fill transparency revealing shapes below. When I copy&paste the shapes into InDesign the shapes look just like they were in Illustrator, but now they are all sliced and flattened. If I separate each layer and copy each individually and rearrange them in InDesign, this prevents the slicing but they are still flattened and have no transparency in the fill. I know that I can set an overall transparency for the shape, but what I need is to set the fill and stroke transparency separately. InDesign does not have an Appearance window and I cannot find anyway to set only the fill to some level of transparency. I am ultimately resolved to returning this artwork back to Illustrator but I would rather not if possible. Can anyone provide an idea if this is possible in InDesign? Secondly, can anyone provide any insight or advice on what you can't do between these two packages? The man pages are adequate for each individual package but they don't provide much insight as to what you should avoid when combining them in a workflow. Any workflow recommendations would be quite welcome.
Joey

[mikewitherell_at_jetsetcom_dot_net]

I know that I can set an overall transparency for the shape, but what
I need is to set the fill and stroke transparency separately.




This is something you can do in Illustrator that you cannot do in InDesign.

Much can copy and paste between the two programs. Experiment in the Preferences of both Indy and Illy and try the PDF option when using the copy n paste thru the clipboard.

[Joey_Ponthieux@adobeforums.com]

Yeah, I have been evaluating this. Problem is I am trying to come up some sort of workflow, and it aint happening. I figured on using Illustrator to develop the background plate, save as a PDF supported AI file, and place this in InDesign. In theory that seemed like the easiest route to take, but I can't get the color to remain the same between the two softwares. Everytime I pace the Illustrator artwork in InDesign the imported Illustrator file is lighter in tone than the same file in Illustrator natively. I have matched the Color Setting between both apps(US Prepress Defaults) and that helps some, but when I print the file from both apps, the print output is still different. However, if I Copy&Paste the artwork from Illustrator to InDesign, and then print the file in both apps, the output is identical. This all leads me to believe something odd is going on with the Place import of the AI file which is modifying the color, and I'm not sure if it's pilot error. Thanks.
Joey

[Bob_Levine]

You're doing something wrong somewhere. The color should be a dead on
match in the two apps. Go back and double check EVERY color setting.

Bob

[Joey_Ponthieux@adobeforums.com]

I have, three times, printed them out three times. I'm either overlooking something or something here is very wrong. I have the Copy&Pasted artwork sitting right beside the Placed artwork, they are visibly different inside InDesign CS. The file being placed is a native AI CS file. Im certian this is a flattening issue but I don't have any clue which app is causing the problem. Any clue as to what setting I might be overlooking beyond the basic Color Setting which is set to US Prepress Defaults(Adobe RGB 1998).

Thanks
Joey

[Bob_Levine]

You shouldn't be using any RGB images.

Bob

[Michael_Griswold@adobeforums.com]

This may not be an answer but I sometimes find myself doing this. As long as you have gone to all the trouble of bringing separate elements from AI, why not separate the stroke from the fill on different layers and then you could control the transparency of the fill without affecting the stroke?

Cheers,

Michael

[Joey_Ponthieux@adobeforums.com]

Robert,
I'm not sure I understand? Do you mean no RGB bitmaps or I shouldnt be saving AI files in Adobe RGB 1998? Either way I don't see how this matters. When I copy&paste the artwork from Illustrator to InDesign, the artwork is identical and prints identical. That would seem to rule out any global color space issues. It's the placed AI file which is wrong. It would seem that either AI is doing something strange to the file when its being saved or that ID is doing something strange to the file when it is being read, but they are different.

Michael,
I've definitely considered this and if I stick with the idea of moving this over to InDesign that probably what I'll do. Problem is it will require a lot of work. The shapes, due to their transparency, get sliced and flattened if I copy them in their current configuration. I can prevent this by moving all the pieces apart and then copying them. But that requires I have to rearrange them back once each piece it retrieved in ID. Was trying to avoid this if possible. A very good idea though.

Joey

[Bob_Levine]

Are you creating AI files in RGB color space? If so, stop and use CMYK.

Bob

[Joey_Ponthieux@adobeforums.com]

Does Illustrator provide for a singular color space? I know that Photoshop does, but Illustrator's colors settings list options for both RGB and CMYK. I know of no way that I can turn RGB off in the color working spaces dialog. Apparently something has to be defined for both RGB and CMYK. I did turn off the RGB Color Management Policy, but it made no difference to my problem, the .ai files are still coming into InDesign incorrectly via Place. Could you provide more detail on how to make AI function strictly in CMYK?

Thanks
Joey

[Bob_Levine]

In Illustrator: file>document color mode.

Make sure you're using the proper color mode. CMYK for CMYK or spot
colors and RGB for all others. If you're printing to a photo printer,
you want to be using RGB for EVERYTHING in Illy and ID.

Don't forget to set the transparency blend space and color output
properly, also.

Bob

[Joey_Ponthieux@adobeforums.com]

I set File>Document Color Mode to CMYK Color. I save the AI file and placed it once again in InDesign. Still no luck, it comes in looking different than the copied shape and identical to most every other placed file I've brought into InDesign so far. I even attempted to place the file with place options on and bring the file in with the transparent background selection turned off, still no success. It's not printing the same as Illustrator, it doesnt look the same on screen, and when printing both the place shape and the copy shape from InDesign they are different.
I can find no reference to transparency blend shape in the man pages, and I'm not sure what you mean by color output. Is that a printer setting? If you can be more specific it would be apreciated.
Joey

[Bob_Levine]

First of all, you're printing to an RGB printer.

<And for you lurkers out there, spare me the details about the CMYK
inks. It's a photo printer and uses RGB data.>

You need to use the RGB color space and if you you're using
transparency, you need to set the blend space to RGB. It's under
edit>transparency blend space.

Yes, the RGB output is a print setting. It's under the printer dialog
box but since it's a non-postscript printer, the only choice will be
composite RGB.

Bob

[Joey_Ponthieux@adobeforums.com]

Ok, now were getting somehwere. I modified my current test document in InDesign to set Transparency Blend Mode to RGB. The image in the fill changed for all shapes but only some now match the copied shape. I went back and placed new copies of the shape bring one place in with tranparent background and one without via the place options. The one without transparent background on is correct the with transparent background is not. Progress to a point. Curious as to why this would happen I went back and rebuilt two entirely new documents. In Illustrator I used US Prepress Defaults with Document Color Mode set to RGB. Created a shape and saved the document. In InDesign I created a new document, set it to US Prepress Defaults and set Transparency Blend Space to RGB. Then I placed two copies of the new .ai file, one without transparent setting in place options, and one with transparent setting in place options. I then "drag&drop" copied the illustrator shape across applications as before. This time all three were identical on screen and when printed, and match exactly to a printed output of teh same Illustrator file. The moral to this story, I suppose, is that the Document Color Mode(AI) and Transparency Blend Space(ID) must be set the same (to RGB or CMYK depending on your output) prior to adding any Illustrator objects to a new InDesign document, and in some cases you must bring in the placed object with transparent background off to absoluetly insure color matching if your bringing elements into a document which has already been created. Having spent hours digging through documentation I am bit surprised that this is not covered in a more straightfroward and up front way. For example, the Color Management PDF provided by Adobe mentions the word "transparency" only once and has no reference to InDesign's Transparency Blend Space command. It would really help if Adobe covered in greater detail how to setup each individual app, in as many scenarios possible, for transfer of data between specific apps. Anyway, thanks for your effort, maybe I can get something done now.

Joey

[Bob_Levine]

I'm glad you're making progress. You're not the first to stumble along
with color managment and I applaud the effort you're making to figure it
all out.

Bob

[Michael_Griswold@adobeforums.com]

This was a useful thread, thanks to all.

Just glad it was you, not me. :)

Michael

[Joey_Ponthieux@adobeforums.com]

No problem.....I think :)

Joey

[Bob_Levine]

> Just glad it was you, not me. :)

Which one of us were you referring to? <g>

Bob