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Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier - Photography

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:34:04 +0100, nobody nowhere wrote:  > > What other devices? the next thing is the printer (vial PS), isn't it? > Or do I show my ignorance now?[/ref] There are also input devices (e.g. digital camera, scanner) and other output devices (e.g. digital projector, film recorder, TV)...

  1. #41

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:34:04 +0100, nobody nowhere wrote: 
    >
    > What other devices? the next thing is the printer (vial PS), isn't it?
    > Or do I show my ignorance now?[/ref]

    There are also input devices (e.g. digital camera, scanner)
    and other output devices (e.g. digital projector, film recorder, TV)

    Aaron Guest

  2. #42

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    How do you create an edge mask? I can probably figure it out myself
    but I'd like to know how others are doing it. Thanks.

    "Bart van der Wolf" <nl> writes:
     
    Rusty Guest

  3. #43

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    >From: Rusty Wright Berkeley.EDU
     

    Here's one simple way ... activate the layer with the image data on it, do
    select > all (cntrl-a), then edit > copy (cntrl-c), then go to the channel
    palette and make a new blank channel by clicking on the bent page at the bottom
    of the palette (it will be called alpha1 if it's the first new channel), then
    paste the image data in this channel with edit > paste (cntrl-v). (An even
    simpler way to get to this step would be duplicating one of the channels, but I
    like to get ALL the data).

    Now with this channel active do "filter > stylize > find edges" and then invert
    it (cntrl-i).

    Most people work on the mask a bit after this, usually running filter > noise >
    median (try radius ~ 3), then filter > other > maximum (radius ~5), then
    filter > blur > gaussian blur (radius same as maximum filter). This makes a
    nice soft mask.

    Then run Levels on it and darken to black (move black slider to the right) the
    areas you want to keep from getting sharpened, move the white slider in to let
    more areas get sharpened, and adjust the middle slider to taste. White areas
    will get 100% of the sharpening, black areas 0%, in between get proportionally
    sharpened. Most people name the alpha channel "edge mask" or similar.

    Then back to the image layer, do select > load selection ("edge mask") and run
    USM with amount to 400%, threshold to 0 and vary the radius from .4 to 1.4 or
    so to taste. Many people run it on the Luminance channel in LAB mode but you
    can also run it in RGB mode and do Edit > Fade and select luminance if you
    wish.
     

    Yes, it's pretty simple to figure out by yourself :)

    Bill


    Bill Guest

  4. #44

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    Jim Dalton writes:
     

    The word exactly never applies in a strict sense. But comparatively
    speaking, it is fully appropriate in this context.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
    Mxsmanic Guest

  5. #45

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    It was a thread on the Rob Galbraith forums, in the Color Management section
    specifically. Though I can't remember which thread exactly. Quite a few
    knowledgeable pros there, definitely worth checking out if you haven't
    already.

    http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

    "Tom Monego" <com> wrote in message
    news:frwTa.2178$..

    Where did you get the Spyder-Optical info? Been using Spyder-Photocal and it
    has worked very well.


    Katie Guest

  6. #46

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    I just posted it, it is titled:

    Adventures in calibrating using Monaco EZ Color 2.5 & their Optiz
    system...
    Jim Guest

  7. #47

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    On 22/7/03 11:53 pm, "Bart van der Wolf" <nl> wrote:
     

    Hmmm. Sounds like a couple more things I need to read up on.
     

    AFAIK it doesn't come with the Mac version that I use.


    Pat
    --
    Photos at:
    http://www.shuttercity.com/ShowGallery.cfm?Format=Cell&AcctID=1251

    Pat Guest

  8. #48

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    On 22/7/03 11:56 pm, "Mxsmanic" <com> wrote:
     

    Thanks for clarifying, I'll have to investigate further and get a few test
    prints.


    Pat
    --
    Photos at:
    http://www.shuttercity.com/ShowGallery.cfm?Format=Cell&AcctID=1251

    Pat Guest

  9. #49

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    Thanks. Since I exist in UK, the Monaco adventure you describe might be
    too much for me... The results I am getting with my Nikon
    8000/PS7/Epson 1290 are not that bad, although they are not perfect,
    often my skies are noticeably not what I see on the monitor, and there
    is also a kind of red or magenta tint somewhere, in the light areas,
    which I can either fight or ignore. In the light of your narrative, I
    wonder whether I should not count my blessings. The French also say that
    "better is the enemy of good", or am I getting too conservative in my
    old age? Keep up the good work, and let us know how you are getting
    along.

    In article <com>, Jim Dalton
    <net> writes 


    NObody
    nobody Guest

  10. #50

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier


    "Pat Chaney" <com> wrote in message
    news:BB44B7AA.37F3E%com...
    SNIP 

    The Mac OS comes with its own color management, Colorsync.

    Bart


    Bart Guest

  11. #51

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    I've heard nothing but good things about them when surfing forums, but I've
    never actually looked up the specs until now because I knew the price was
    out of my range. All I can say is wow. Wish I could actually see one in
    person (I live in a very small city). My current monitor is an aging Samsung
    SyncMaster 900IFT at the moment (was not bought with color management in
    mind) which has slight geometry issues, a problem with the green gun during
    warm up, and a very slightly noticeable warm hot spot in the center when
    viewing a screen of pure white. I'm considering selling it along with an
    older PC I don't use anymore in order to buy a 22" LaCie ElectronBlue IV
    (they also have a 19", good prices if on a budget), though I'm not sure when
    that will happen or even whether I should get the BlueEye Vision puck to go
    with it (can control the guns automatically) or get something a bit cheaper
    like the Gretag Eye One. But if price was no object, then I would definitely
    buy the Sony without a doubt. It should be noted that periodic calibration
    can be done with any monitor and something like Adobe Gamma or inexpensive
    calibration hardware (like Monaco, Spyder, Eye One, etc). You don't actually
    need those big expensive monitors, unless your very serious about extremely
    accurate color of course. ;-)

    "nobody nowhere" <demon.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:1$RgOIAo$vH$demon.co.uk...
     


    Katie Guest

  12. #52

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    >From: nobody nowhere demon.co.uk
     

    There is no room for argument about this, the Gamma utility asks you to use
    your eyes to make several key choices while the Spyder or similar makes these
    measurements with a calibrated photon counter. No contest, your eye is just
    too accomodating of slight changes in tone and color and the hardware wins
    every time.

    If you're serious about it you'll get the hardware sooner or later. Adobe
    Gamma is a good first-cut solution (ie, better than not calibrating at all),
    but is limited.
     

    No, but the phosphors on the monitor screen do indeed shift over time and thus
    you need to re-calibrate periodically.
     

    Just do a web search to find a dealer. Here's the Colorvision on-line
    ordering site for Europe, for example ...

    http://www.colorvision.ch/beta/onlinestore/index.html

    .... and here's the Monaco site (try the "Store" link)

    http://www.monacosys.com/

    Bill


    Bill Guest

  13. #53

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    Thanks Bill.

    In article <aol.com>, Bill Hilton
    <comedy> writes 

    >
    >There is no room for argument about this, the Gamma utility asks you to use
    >your eyes to make several key choices while the Spyder or similar makes these
    >measurements with a calibrated photon counter. No contest, your eye is just
    >too accomodating of slight changes in tone and color and the hardware wins
    >every time.
    >
    >If you're serious about it you'll get the hardware sooner or later. Adobe
    >Gamma is a good first-cut solution (ie, better than not calibrating at all),
    >but is limited.

    >
    >No, but the phosphors on the monitor screen do indeed shift over time and thus
    >you need to re-calibrate periodically.

    >
    >Just do a web search to find a dealer. Here's the Colorvision on-line
    >ordering site for Europe, for example ...
    >
    >http://www.colorvision.ch/beta/onlinestore/index.html
    >
    >... and here's the Monaco site (try the "Store" link)
    >
    >http://www.monacosys.com/
    >
    >Bill
    >
    >[/ref]

    Nobody
    nobody Guest

  14. #54

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    You say this, however, after a while, one gets increasingly annoyed with
    mismatches in colour, and the efforts to put them right, even if the
    discrepancies between the monitor and printer are not that dramatic.
    Anything to alleviate the problem would be a blessing to somebody who
    spends x numbers of hours a day or per week scanning and printing. I
    should have taken up knitting as a hobby/pleasure, it would have been
    cheaper... (although one might still need the hardware to calibrate the
    colour of the wool.. :-) )

    In article <supernews.com>, Katie Piecrust
    <NoSpam!?.?> writes 


    Nobody
    nobody Guest

  15. #55

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    Have the address? Monaco EZColor isn't ideal but it sure has saved me a lot of
    paper with an Epson 9000. Took some work but didn't have the couple of grand
    that the next step would take.
    Also the color Vision Spyder isn't a Monaco product.

    Tom

    In article <com>, net
    says... 

    Tom Guest

  16. #56

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    "nobody nowhere" <demon.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:iCt1BLAaoyH$demon.co.uk... 

    Many professionals are starting to use LCDs now; many current ones are
    excellent, and while they may not have quite the gamut of a CRT, neither
    does ink on paper. Look at chromaticity graphs and you'll see that inkjets
    can print some colors that neither CRTs nor LCDs can display and both
    CRTs and LCDs can display lots of colors you can't print.

    The big problem with LCDs used to be their narrow angle of view --
    if you moved your head even a little bit, the color shifted. The colors
    even looked different from the center to the edges because of the
    difference in viewing angle. Laptop screens are still pretty bad from
    this perspective, but good desktop LCDs don't suffer from this
    problem at all. LCDs were also dim, didn't ship with decent profiles,
    and could neither be profiled with common monitor profilers nor
    calibrated to a predetermined standard.

    You still can't calibrate an LCD, but you can profile it and many ship
    with good profiles. An example of an excellent LCD is the Apple 20".
    If I were buying today, I'd probably go with that or a comparable
    one instead of the Sony 21" CRT I have now.
     

    No, but phosphors age.
     

    Calibration hardware will give more accurate results. Adobe Gamma
    can produce decent results (I don't have the typical delta-E numbers
    handy --
    delta-E is a numeric measurement of color error). You'll almost certainly
    get better results with Adobe Gamma than by using the profile that came
    with the CRT, if only because AG will force you to adjust the monitor
    properly. AG doesn't work with LCDs; you'll have to go with either
    the mfr's profile or a hardware solution (be sure the hardware you buy
    will handle LCDs).

    Adobe Gamma may or
    may not be "good enough" for you. My experience in replacing an Adobe
    Gamma setup with a hardware-generated profile was that the errors
    introduced by Adobe Gamma were subjectively smaller than the errors
    introduced by problems in printer profiles, humidity changes when printing
    with dye- based inks (don't take showers near a dye-based printer
    during printing!), etc. But then I'm more interested in pleasing color
    than accurate color.

    If you can afford it and want to reduce errors wherever you can, hardware
    calibration is worth it. If "good enough" or "looks good" is good enough,
    or you're short on cash, Adobe Gamma is good enough.

    Russell Williams
    not speaking for Adobe Systems


    Russell Guest

  17. #57

    Default Re: Inkjet vs. Fuji Frontier

    >From: "Russell Williams" com
     

    Russell, have you used the Sony Artisan (the one that self-calibrates) or know
    people who have? Thinking of replacing one of our 21" monitors and it's
    between the Artisan and a big LCD monitor. (I'm calibrating with the ColorCal
    Spyder now).

    Thanks for jumping in to this thread, especially the remarks about Adobe Gamma
    utility. Always good to hear from someone at Adobe.

    Bill
    Bill Guest

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