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Is InDesign the right product for our needs? - Adobe Indesign Windows

I didn't say I didn't have the budget to do my own prepress. I said that I didn't have the budget to pay someone to fiddle around with hard-to-process files, nor do my deadlines permit it. My job is on the press an hour after I upload PDFs to the printer's FTP site. They bring the PDFs into Quark, do the imposition, and onto the press she goes....

  1. #41

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    I didn't say I didn't have the budget to do my own prepress. I said that I didn't have the budget to pay someone to fiddle around with hard-to-process files, nor do my deadlines permit it. My job is on the press an hour after I upload PDFs to the printer's FTP site. They bring the PDFs into Quark, do the imposition, and onto the press she goes.
    Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com Guest

  2. #42

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    OK, so we do things in different ways. I use a prepress company that deals
    with hundreds of publications and so has the ability to handle any kind of
    format as standard. So it's not a question of fiddling about.

    My deadlines are not as tight as yours, but if I receive a Mac/Quark CD I
    can ship it overnight, it's opened the next morning, converted to PDF and I
    can download it straight away.

    If I get an e-mailed Stuffed Quark file, so the fonts are intact, I can
    upload the stuffed file into the repro company where it goes through an
    automation process in which it is UnStuffed, opened, PDF-ed, and put on the
    server for me to download within a few minutes - without being touched by
    human hand. The automation process also does a pre-flight.

    The occasional film ad can be sent overnight, copy dot scanned, and, again,
    made available as a PDF.

    All my digitised ads going back years are stored and can be repeated into
    the current workflow instantly.


    k



    Ken_Grace@adobeforums.com Guest

  3. #43

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    > but for proper books or manuals, FrameMaker is an excellent choice
    (especially if you need to create an index). I look forward to a barrage of
    responses.

    I only quibble with your use of the word 'proper.' I do an awful lot of
    reading, I've been a voracious reader all my 40-something years, and these
    features that make FM so special...I never see them in print. But then
    again, I don't read college texts much, either. And besides, we all know
    that *real* indices are created by people--not software. :-)

    Several of the feature request and other discussions have reminded me of
    what I went through 2.5 years ago...PageMaker was, in my opinion, clearly
    dying and it was time to ride a horse in the direction it is running. So we
    switched to ID and lived without a couple of our favorite PM features. Now
    PM is all but dead, and Adobe has incorporated those features into ID,
    effectively putting PM down. I suspect the next major version of ID will
    incorporate many of the major features that make FrameMaker unique.

    -John O


    JohnO@adobeforums.com Guest

  4. #44

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    I've been a voracious reader all my 40-something years, and these features that make FM so special...I never see them in print.

    You've never seen headlines straddling more than one column, footnotes, endnotes, section numbering, cross references (even a simple "see page X"), dictionary-style running heads, or inline graphics in print? Maybe you aren't quite as voracious a reader as you say you are!
    Dominic_Hurley@adobeforums.com Guest

  5. #45

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    InDesign CS with the Adobe Premium Creative Suite using a PDF workflow is the way to go!

    Adobe just quit Macintosh support for FM too.
    steama@adobeforums.com Guest

  6. #46

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    If Adobe has stopped supporting FrameMaker for the Mac, well the writing is on the wall, as they say. I have yet to use the indexing or book functions of InDesign, so perhaps they are just as good; it would make sense. Because otherwise, there is not a huge amount that separates the two. I did like the Paragraph Design window in FrameMaker, though; I think it had more control than even InDesign.

    Cheers.
    Junji_Nishihata@adobeforums.com Guest

  7. #47

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    > Maybe you aren't quite as voracious a reader as you say you are!

    I don't read academic texts much...these days. That's about the only place I
    see these features used with any regularity. And even that is a minority of
    the overall US textbook market (can't speak for elsewhere). They probably
    also exist in special-purpose commercial docs, but at the consumer level
    where are all these footnotes and endnotes???

    BTW, my premise is that ID was challenged as missing the features necessary
    to do 'proper' books. And I say BS...Junji is looking for what are IMHO
    special-purpose features for special-purpose books.

    -John O


    JohnO@adobeforums.com Guest

  8. #48

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    "I don't read academic texts much...these days. That's about the only place I
    see these features used with any regularity. And even that is a minority of
    the overall US textbook market (can't speak for elsewhere)."

    If books that have these features along with indexes and tables of content and figure labels were a minority, I would be out of a job!

    Unless its a novel, bet on them having some feature like that.
    Dawn_Cordova@adobeforums.com Guest

  9. #49

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    Just to be clear, InDesign has most of these features (and more if one buys InDesign CS PageMaker Edition), but many of them FrameMaker does better or more flexibly today.

    However, footnotes are a particular lack.

    Regards,

    T
    Thomas_Phinney@adobeforums.com Guest

  10. #50

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?



    InDesign has most of these features




    Huh?

    headlines straddling more than one column




    Only if you never need them to move

    footnotes




    Nope

    endnotes




    Nope

    section numbering




    Nope

    cross references (even a simple "see page X")




    Nope

    dictionary-style running heads




    Nope

    inline graphics in print




    Very weak implementation.

    That's certainly not "most."
    Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com Guest

  11. #51

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    >
    > Unless its a novel, bet on them having some feature like that.
    Footnotes, endnotes, and long numbered/bulleted lists? I'll take that bet.

    -John O


    JohnO@adobeforums.com Guest

  12. #52

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?


    > Unless its a novel, bet on them having some feature like that.




    Footnotes, endnotes, and long numbered/bulleted lists? I'll take that
    bet.




    "some" <> "all"
    Stu_Bloom@adobeforums.com Guest

  13. #53

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    I agree with Stu. I use FM almost as much as ID for these reasons. Even simple numbering is done manually in InDesign. Stu didn't even mention independing numbering, equations, conditional text (not even close to the same as layers), runin paragraph formats, side headers, table styles (not the same as tables) etc.
    Philo_Calhoun@adobeforums.com Guest

  14. #54

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    But at the consumer level where are all these footnotes and endnotes???

    Like I say, you are obviously not as voracious a reader as you claim. I could go to the nearest newsagent and find any number of books with footnotes or endnotes (history books are big sellers in New Zealand, for example, and they have many notes). And it wasn't just notes I listed - you've ignored those other features that FM has over ID. I think if you used programs that really were designed for long doents (FM, Ventura), you'd realise how much ID is missing.

    And, Thomas, come on! Saying "InDesign has most of these features" is just not true. If you include the PM plugin, it has some rudimentary bullets and numbering ability, but if Adobe really thinks ID has these features, it explains why there has been so little work done on adding long-doent support to date.
    Dominic_Hurley@adobeforums.com Guest

  15. #55

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    > Like I say, you are obviously not as voracious a reader as you claim.

    You make me laugh, Dominic. :-) My shelves at home are loaded with history
    and biographies. I read for fun, and I do it constantly. I always have.

    The deal is, if I were doing a history book in ID I don't see the problem. I
    don't see anything in these books that can't be easily done in ID, or even
    Word for that matter. But maybe having never seen FM, I just don't see ID's
    'limitations' with this simple layout component. (This is kinda like
    convincing a MS Pub user that it's no good...)

    Young and stupid, I am? Maybe, but there's no way I will ever suggest that
    someone gets on the FM horse at this stage of its life. The time it takes to
    learn a new GUI and layout paradigm is easily offset by just doing the work
    in ID. Then when ID gets those FM features in version 4..... :-)

    -John O


    JohnO@adobeforums.com Guest

  16. #56

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    I recently completed a 208 page catalogue in ID. It was a product catalogue with mostly photos and some text. I was praising InDesign everyday for the 3 months is took me to complete the project. Absolutely no complaints. Using "Book file" saved a lot of time and kept the files organized.
    Michael_Savage@adobeforums.com Guest

  17. #57

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    FM is used in the New England Journal of Medicine, The Foundary (After effects plugins) manuals, and NVIDIA installation instructions. Great bedside reading, all of them.
    Philo_Calhoun@adobeforums.com Guest

  18. #58

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    My shelves at home are loaded with history and biographies.

    And none of them contain footnotes or endnotes?

    There's no way I will ever suggest that someone gets on the FM horse at this stage of its life. The time it takes to learn a new GUI and layout paradigm is easily offset by just doing the work in ID.

    It really takes you that long to learn a new program? Long-doent programs like FM do still offer me significant advantages over ID. It's never taken me long to learn them and the time saved from the functions they have far outweigh that initial investment. And when you say "just doing the work in ID", you'r ignoring all the scripting and workrounds you would have to go through to replace those functions. I also don't know how you can confidently assert that without having even seen FM.

    I don't see anything in these books that can't be easily done in ID.

    Okay. How about importing a several hundred page doent with thousands of footnotes and a large number of section numbers and cross references, and manintaining them all while the doent is still being added to and edited. And having dictionary-style running headers that automatically reflect the section numbers. How do you do that easily in ID?

    or even Word for that matter.

    This is where you make me laugh. So why don't you use Word instead of ID?
    Dominic_Hurley@adobeforums.com Guest

  19. #59

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    >thousands of footnotes and a large number of section numbers and cross
    references,

    These are the books I've never seen. Who writes them, and who buys them?
    With that type of book I see your point.

    My experience, which is probably typical, is that footnotes are not common.
    I've seen them, and the most footnoted book I recall at this moment had
    dozens of them...easily managed by any layout software, IMO.

    -John O


    JohnO@adobeforums.com Guest

  20. #60

    Default Re: Is InDesign the right product for our needs?

    John O: one of the major shortcomings of ID (compared to FM) is inline graphics placement. FM has many options: top of page, top of column, where placed, etc. If you have to modify graphic images and the size is not an exact match, InDesign is a major pain to get the images to place correctly. You won't see this reading some book, but these issues lurk behind the scenes.
    Philo_Calhoun@adobeforums.com Guest

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